So I know Wailord is losing a lot of power due to the rotation after Worlds in the standard format. With that said, with it's 250 HP, it's still quite the tank for a normal EX card, but in the new AOR set there's a card that is similar to Dusknoir's ability to move damage to the opponents Pokémon, Whimsicott. For a single Fairy energy, you can pick one of your damaged bench Pokémon and move it all to the opponent's active Pokémon and even though it's an attack compared to Dusknoir, the advantage is that it's a only a stage one meaning you can easily access it . This could potentially keep poor Wailord around a bit long just because of that and it would be most likely easy to fill the deck up with ways to disrupt your opponent.
What are your opinions on this and if there is maybe another build you think may work with this, please post it!
I'd argue personally that Wailord has already lost one of its main powers - surprise.
This idea isn't bad, in theory. Being able to shift damage counters sounds highly proficient with a huge tank accompany. However, there is a pretty big problem - any Cottonee you bench are automatic Lysandre prizes. Unfortunately there will not be any [G] Cottonee after rotation (so far), preventing any Giant Plant Stadium surprises.
I'd argue personally that Wailord has already lost one of its main powers - surprise.
This idea isn't bad, in theory. Being able to shift damage counters sounds highly proficient with a huge tank accompany. However, there is a pretty big problem - any Cottonee you bench are automatic Lysandre prizes. Unfortunately there will not be any [G] Cottonee after rotation (so far), preventing any Giant Plant Stadium surprises.
This is pretty much the issue I saw about using Wailord EX with Whimsicott: The fact that people will easily predict your strategy, and go for attacking the Whimsicott line. The most important problem is you cannot put much pressure just with large HP alone - You need an attacker of some kind to strike back and take the hits.
Here are some suggestions to pair with Whimsicott:
A Fighting Type EX + Focus Sash. Imagine using Lucario EX, Machamp EX, or Primal Groudon EX to deal heavy hits, while you have a Whimsicott on your bench. Sure, your opponent could attempt to attack Whimsicott, but knocking it out takes only 1 prize, plus they still have to deal with a very strong attacker that resists a 1-Hit knockout. Take caution that you'd be running 2 energy types.
An Aromatisse Fairy Deck or Toolbox. Whimsicott would work pretty well here, as Fairy Garden grants free retreat, and it matches the energy type, too. Imagine the things you could add to a toolbox like this for Whimsicott to heal, with the excellent maneuverability it is granted.
M Rayquaza colorless. One issue you have to deal with when using this deck is while it is quite speedy, the end games can be quite sluggish, having to withstand heavy hits against you. Whimsicott could fit in as a last resort healer-attacker here... Though most issues come more from your opponent targeting the shaymin EX's on the bench.
Either way, in any of these decks, be sure to add a Hex Maniac or two - Otherwise the bats will really ruin the chance to use this strategy.
This is pretty much the issue I saw about using Wailord EX with Whimsicott: The fact that people will easily predict your strategy, and go for attacking the Whimsicott line. The most important problem is you cannot put much pressure just with large HP alone - You need an attacker of some kind to strike back and take the hits.
Here are some suggestions to pair with Whimsicott:
A Fighting Type EX + Focus Sash. Imagine using Lucario EX, Machamp EX, or Primal Groudon EX to deal heavy hits, while you have a Whimsicott on your bench. Sure, your opponent could attempt to attack Whimsicott, but knocking it out takes only 1 prize, plus they still have to deal with a very strong attacker that resists a 1-Hit knockout. Take caution that you'd be running 2 energy types.
An Aromatisse Fairy Deck or Toolbox. Whimsicott would work pretty well here, as Fairy Garden grants free retreat, and it matches the energy type, too. Imagine the things you could add to a toolbox like this for Whimsicott to heal, with the excellent maneuverability it is granted.
M Rayquaza colorless. One issue you have to deal with when using this deck is while it is quite speedy, the end games can be quite sluggish, having to withstand heavy hits against you. Whimsicott could fit in as a last resort healer-attacker here... Though most issues come more from your opponent targeting the shaymin EX's on the bench.
Either way, in any of these decks, be sure to add a Hex Maniac or two - Otherwise the bats will really ruin the chance to use this strategy.
I thought about using it in a Fairy Deck like M.Gardevior few times to test it out since it'd be easy to take advantage of Aromatisse's Fairy Transfer. But you all are right about Wailord most likely not having enough pressure to make the deck work. My idea was to maybe use Wally in order to quickly evolve Cottonne.
I really do like your idea of it as a tech in a Fighting Type deck and would definitely like to test this out and see if it has potential since some decks could easily tech it in and could be a huge game changer.
As far as M Rayquaza I'm kind of mixed on it for a few reasons you already stated. It's a great addition because most of the deck is a colorless based deck, but Shaymin-Ex pretty almost throws the whole idea out the window if you're not careful.
I'd argue personally that Wailord has already lost one of its main powers - surprise.
This idea isn't bad, in theory. Being able to shift damage counters sounds highly proficient with a huge tank accompany. However, there is a pretty big problem - any Cottonee you bench are automatic Lysandre prizes. Unfortunately there will not be any [G] Cottonee after rotation (so far), preventing any Giant Plant Stadium surprises.
That's what I loved about Wailord the most, it came in to Nationals and shook everything up because nobody expected something like this to make it anywhere despite it's major flaws. Most people will probably expect this idea and it won't be as effective, but Cottonee alone could be a possible X factor as it's way easier to get out compared to previous damage swapping Pokemon.
Hello community, I just got 3 whimsicott so I'm in the mood to put it into every deck imaginable one of them never being wailord and the reason is that it's just not worth it, max potion is better and you still lose prizes when you never want/need to (even if you play wally, it's just not worth it), plus whimsicott like wailord ends up losing its only value, the fact of never being expected as the matchup.
The one I like the most atm is manectric/whimsicott. In 90% of manectrics matchups it never usually gets ohko'd but ends up taking enough dmg close enough to an ohko, whimsicott gives that advantage. and at that point it doesn't even matter if it is manectric or not, it offers alternative matchups such as a dragons counter, a turn for max potion and to setup in between turns, in truth is a utility mechanic that offers more versatility then just baiting your opponent into attacking wailord but instead eliminate whimsicott for easy prizes, so please don't and vote whimsicott.
Hello community, I just got 3 whimsicott so I'm in the mood to put it into every deck imaginable one of them never being wailord and the reason is that it's just not worth it, max potion is better and you still lose prizes when you never want/need to (even if you play wally, it's just not worth it), plus whimsicott like wailord ends up losing its only value, the fact of never being expected as the matchup.
The one I like the most atm is manectric/whimsicott. In 90% of manectrics matchups it never usually gets ohko'd but ends up taking enough dmg close enough to an ohko, whimsicott gives that advantage. and at that point it doesn't even matter if it is manectric or not, it offers alternative matchups such as a dragons counter, a turn for max potion and to setup in between turns, in truth is a utility mechanic that offers more versatility then just baiting your opponent into attacking wailord but instead eliminate whimsicott for easy prizes, so please don't and vote whimsicott.
Whimsicott can work with Wailord, but not yet. It needs an attacker that can hit and run with Fairy Energy which can place a lot of pressure on your opponent. Until we get one, though, best not try.
That's not the issue per say, the issue is whimsicott in wailord all together, its the fact of putting in wallys, whimsicott, and fairy energy with the mass of wailord consistent cards not whimsicott consistent cards, and even if you try to make it dual consistent wailord will just end up costing you a lot of games due to the lack of consistency.
I don't really agree with a hit and run fairy type attacker as there is a couple hit run attackers that run off colourless but do little to no damage, but even still whimsicott in a deck that can essentially use it properly as a tech to get ahead by 2-3 prizes or win games I could see more of, the fact that it has 70 hp and lysandre is a 2 of staple in everyones decks will just make strategies like wailord/whimsicott less possible.
That's not the issue per say, the issue is whimsicott in wailord all together, its the fact of putting in wallys, whimsicott, and fairy energy with the mass of wailord consistent cards not whimsicott consistent cards, and even if you try to make it dual consistent wailord will just end up costing you a lot of games due to the lack of consistency.
I don't really agree with a hit and run fairy type attacker as there is a couple hit run attackers that run off colourless but do little to no damage, but even still whimsicott in a deck that can essentially use it properly as a tech to get ahead by 2-3 prizes or win games I could see more of, the fact that it has 70 hp and lysandre is a 2 of staple in everyones decks will just make strategies like wailord/whimsicott less possible.
You don't put Whimsicott in Wailord, if you are referring to Wailord as in the stall Wailord that took nationals. That deck is dead, and nothing short of a world wide memory wipe will revive it. Instead, you put Whimsicott and Wailord in a hit and runner deck, where Wailord serves as a wall and Whimsicott turns damage against your opponent. You don't need Wally, you don't need Max Potion, Scoop Ups or AZ or any other forms of healing outside Whimsicott, except maybe a Cassius to retreat a stranded Wailord. The hit and run attacker I mentioned is a theoretical Pokemon which we do not have yet, but can look out for to use with Wailord and Whimsicott when (if) it is ever released. Ideally it is something that can hit for 90 (with Muscle Band) for 2 attachments.
Regarding Lysandre, if they do Lysandre out Whimsicott, they can be my guest. It will most likely have no energy attached to it, gives up 1 Prize and is not even my attacker. They just wasted their supporter for the turn on it, and I'll be glad for that alone. I'm more afraid of them taking out my attacker, but we have had 2 hit and run decks before in Gengar and Donphan, so it isn't as if the deck cannot work with people running 2 of them.
I'm not theorycrafting here, really. I run a Cofagrigus NVI/ Gengar EX / Wailord EX deck in Expanded and that deck has proven itself to be able to handle most decks, with its few bad match ups being Toad, M Ray Dragon/ M Charizards, and VirGen, which outside Toad few people play, and being fairly even versus Yveltal and RayEels, and good matchups against everything else. Whimsicott AOR/ Wailord EX/ Mystery Attacker in theory be a better deck, because it eliminates your weakness of Toad, and lets you run Weakness Policy to counteract Grass type attackers.
Cofagrigus - Psychic - 90 HP (Stage 1 - Evolves from Yamask)
[P][C] Damagriiigus: Move all damage counters from 1 of your Benched Pokémon to the Defending Pokémon.
[P][C][C] Perplex: 30 damage. The Defending Pokémon is now Confused.
You don't put Whimsicott in Wailord, if you are referring to Wailord as in the stall Wailord that took nationals. That deck is dead, and nothing short of a world wide memory wipe will revive it. Instead, you put Whimsicott and Wailord in a hit and runner deck, where Wailord serves as a wall and Whimsicott turns damage against your opponent. You don't need Wally, you don't need Max Potion, Scoop Ups or AZ or any other forms of healing outside Whimsicott, except maybe a Cassius to retreat a stranded Wailord. The hit and run attacker I mentioned is a theoretical Pokemon which we do not have yet, but can look out for to use with Wailord and Whimsicott when (if) it is ever released. Ideally it is something that can hit for 90 (with Muscle Band) for 2 attachments.
Regarding Lysandre, if they do Lysandre out Whimsicott, they can be my guest. It will most likely have no energy attached to it, gives up 1 Prize and is not even my attacker. They just wasted their supporter for the turn on it, and I'll be glad for that alone. I'm more afraid of them taking out my attacker, but we have had 2 hit and run decks before in Gengar and Donphan, so it isn't as if the deck cannot work with people running 2 of them.
I'm not theorycrafting here, really. I run a Cofagrigus NVI/ Gengar EX / Wailord EX deck in Expanded and that deck has proven itself to be able to handle most decks, with its few bad match ups being Toad, M Ray Dragon/ M Charizards, and VirGen, which outside Toad few people play, and being fairly even versus Yveltal and RayEels, and good matchups against everything else. Whimsicott AOR/ Wailord EX/ Mystery Attacker in theory be a better deck, because it eliminates your weakness of Toad, and lets you run Weakness Policy to counteract Grass type attackers.
Cofagrigus - Psychic - 90 HP (Stage 1 - Evolves from Yamask)
[P][C] Damagriiigus: Move all damage counters from 1 of your Benched Pokémon to the Defending Pokémon.
[P][C][C] Perplex: 30 damage. The Defending Pokémon is now Confused.
I look at it this way, if you Whimsicott count gets low, just throw in a Sacred Ash. Problem solved. As you said though, Toad would be a pain to handle.
I look at it this way, if you Whimsicott count gets low, just throw in a Sacred Ash. Problem solved. As you said though, Toad would be a pain to handle.
