Why Donphan is Now Broken (Donphan / Macargo)

[NintendoAlian]

Pokemon:

• 
  4 Phanphy PLS
  4 Donphan PLS
  1 Sigilyph LGT
  1 Zekrom LGT
  2 Slugma XY
  2 Macargo (Omega Barrier)
  1 Wobbuffet PF

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums:

• 
  3 Korrina
  4 N
  4 Professor Juniper
  2 Lysandre
  1 Maxies Hidden Trick
  2 Teammates
  
  3 Robo Substitute
  3 Muscle Band
  2 Float Stone
  2 VS Seeker
  1 Computer Search
  2 Ultra Ball
  2 Repeat Ball
  
  2 Fighting Stadium

Energy:

• 
  4 Strong Energy
  3 Double Colorless
  6 Fighting Energy

Strategy:
So, basically Donphan, except with Macargo from Primal Clash.

Primal Clash Cards
Magcargo - Fire - HP110
Stage 1 - Evolves from Slugma

Ω Barrier: Whenever your opponent plays a Trainer card (excluding Pokemon Tools and Stadium cards), prevent all effects of that card done to this Pokemon.

[R][C] Ram: 30 damage.
[R][C][C] Undying Flame: 60 damage. If your opponent’s Active Pokemon is a Pokemon EX, this attack does 60 more damage.

Weakness: Water (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 3

Repeat Ball - Trainer
Item

Search your deck for 1 Pokemon that has same name as a Pokemon you have in play, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Shuffle your deck afterward.

You may use as many Item cards as you like during your turn (before your attack).

Maxie’s Hidden Trick - Trainer
Supporter

You can only play this card if it's the only card in your hand.

Put a [F] Pokemon from your discard pile onto your Bench, then draw 5 cards. (Note: Yes, you can play /any/ [F] Pokemon to your Bench. It doesn't say Basic Pokemon. It only says [F] Pokemon.)

You may play only 1 Supporter card during your turn (before your attack).

Teammates - Trainer
Supporter

This card can't be played unless any of your Pokemon were Knocked Out during your opponent's last turn.

Search your deck for up to 2 cards and put them into your hand. Shuffle your deck afterwards.

You may play only 1 Supporter card during your turn (before your attack).

 

[AlexanderTheAwesome]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

I don't understand. How does magcargo make it broken?

 

[Ceeelso]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

I don't understand. How does magcargo make it broken?

I think it's because of the Barrier effect.

Ω Barrier: Whenever your opponent plays a Trainer card (excluding Pokemon Tools and Stadium cards), prevent all effects of that card done to this Pokemon.

In other words, no Lysandre or Escape Rope.

 

[AlexanderTheAwesome]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

I don't understand. How does magcargo make it broken?

I think it's because of the Barrier effect.

Ω Barrier: Whenever your opponent plays a Trainer card (excluding Pokemon Tools and Stadium cards), prevent all effects of that card done to this Pokemon.

In other words, no Lysandre or Escape Rope.

Lysandre is targeting donphan not magcargo so the effect would still go through

 

[SGGPatrickJ]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

I think it's because of the Barrier effect.

Ω Barrier: Whenever your opponent plays a Trainer card (excluding Pokemon Tools and Stadium cards), prevent all effects of that card done to this Pokemon.

In other words, no Lysandre or Escape Rope.

Lysandre is targeting donphan not magcargo so the effect would still go through

Correct and escape rope also doesn't target Magcargo. If any card makes Donphan broken out of this set it is Wailord EX. You now have a 250 HP basic pokemon wall. Near impossible to knock out in one hit and can easily abuse max potion. He can just sit there and sponge damage all game.

 

[NintendoAlian]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

Lysandre is targeting donphan not magcargo so the effect would still go through

Correct and escape rope also doesn't target Magcargo. If any card makes Donphan broken out of this set it is Wailord EX. You now have a 250 HP basic pokemon wall. Near impossible to knock out in one hit and can easily abuse max potion. He can just sit there and sponge damage all game.

Do you know if there is an official ruling on that? Even though Lysandre is targeting Donphan, it is affecting Macargo by forcing it to switch.

 

[SGGPatrickJ]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

Correct and escape rope also doesn't target Magcargo. If any card makes Donphan broken out of this set it is Wailord EX. You now have a 250 HP basic pokemon wall. Near impossible to knock out in one hit and can easily abuse max potion. He can just sit there and sponge damage all game.

Do you know if there is an official ruling on that? Even though Lysandre is targeting Donphan, it is affecting Macargo by forcing it to switch.

I can't say there is an official ruling on Omega Barrier yet however it can be assumed based on your normal gamerules that it will not work the way you thought. While it is forcing Magcrago to switch it is not targeting him, Lysandre is only targeting and affecting Donphan. Escape rope may need a ruling but I would think it would work for the same reason that Lysandre would work.

 

[GadgetJax]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

Correct and escape rope also doesn't target Magcargo. If any card makes Donphan broken out of this set it is Wailord EX. You now have a 250 HP basic pokemon wall. Near impossible to knock out in one hit and can easily abuse max potion. He can just sit there and sponge damage all game.

Do you know if there is an official ruling on that? Even though Lysandre is targeting Donphan, it is affecting Macargo by forcing it to switch.

I agree on your ruling. Even though the Pokemon Company does some goofy things, (NO SPECIAL L ENERGY) they would never print 5 different Pokemon that have this, and have it not stop Catcher, Lysandre, and Escape Rope.

The reason why is because Magcargo moving to the Bench is only occuring because of the Trainer card. Since it's unaffected by Lysandre, it won't move from the Active spot.

As for the deck itself, I don't think Magcargo is the best fit for this kind of deck. While it could always wall for you, I'd say that the best walls right now are the Unova Dragons and Wailord-EX.

 

[Mora]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

I agree on your ruling. Even though the Pokemon Company does some goofy things, (NO SPECIAL L ENERGY) they would never print 5 different Pokemon that have this, and have it not stop Catcher, Lysandre, and Escape Rope.

But it does stop Catcher and Lysandre. That is if Magcargo is actually being targeted with it. I.e., if it's on the Bench, and they try to play it on Magcargo. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks or doesn't think they would do; it's what's on the card that we have to go by. But of course, since the cards aren't officially out yet, we don't really know exactly what the rulings are. Who knows. They could do something really weird.

 

[SGGPatrickJ]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

I agree on your ruling. Even though the Pokemon Company does some goofy things, (NO SPECIAL L ENERGY) they would never print 5 different Pokemon that have this, and have it not stop Catcher, Lysandre, and Escape Rope.

But it does stop Catcher and Lysandre. That is if Magcargo is actually being targeted with it. I.e., if it's on the Bench, and they try to play it on Magcargo. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks or doesn't think they would do; it's what's on the card that we have to go by. But of course, since the cards aren't officially out yet, we don't really know exactly what the rulings are. Who knows. They could do something really weird.

While you are right they would not effect the benched Magcargo that was not what the original poster had in mind. Nobody would be trying to catcher the Magcargo in this deck under normal circumstances. The idea was to use his ability as a way to prevent your other benched pokemon from being catchered which it does not do based off the current translation of the card.

 

[NintendoAlian]

Ok. At least Donphan won't be broken! :-D. So, this deck is useless because Macargo won't block Lysandre. Now I won't have to play Genesect EX and Beartic in every deck.

 

[SGGPatrickJ]

Ok. At least Donphan won't be broken! :-D. So, this deck is useless because Macargo won't block Lysandre. Now I won't have to play Genesect EX and Beartic in every deck.

As mentioned before though Donphan may still be broken with the addition of Wailord. That is an incredible wall of a pokemon Donphan now has access to and I'm wondering how it will effect those decks.

 

[Mora]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

But it does stop Catcher and Lysandre. That is if Magcargo is actually being targeted with it. I.e., if it's on the Bench, and they try to play it on Magcargo. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks or doesn't think they would do; it's what's on the card that we have to go by. But of course, since the cards aren't officially out yet, we don't really know exactly what the rulings are. Who knows. They could do something really weird.

While you are right they would not effect the benched Magcargo that was not what the original poster had in mind. Nobody would be trying to catcher the Magcargo in this deck under normal circumstances. The idea was to use his ability as a way to prevent your other benched pokemon from being catchered which it does not do based off the current translation of the card.

I'm aware that's not what he had in mind and that that makes Magcargo rather pointless; however that's not how the Ability works. That's what I was trying to point out. You can only use it to block Catcher and Lysandre when it's on the Bench being targeted. Not that that is somehow advantageous for you to do so. But that's how the card works.

Ok. At least Donphan won't be broken! :-D. So, this deck is useless because Macargo won't block Lysandre. Now I won't have to play Genesect EX and Beartic in every deck.

As mentioned before though Donphan may still be broken with the addition of Wailord. That is an incredible wall of a pokemon Donphan now has access to and I'm wondering how it will effect those decks.

I haven't tested Wailord at all yet. It definitely is an option, but my biggest concern is that it gives up two prizes, and one of the themes I like about Donphan and what I feel makes it really good is that all of the Pokemon only give up one prize. The benefit of being able to take a few good hits might outweigh being an EX, but I'm not convinced yet. I'll have to test it out.

 

[NintendoAlian]

RE: Why Donphan is now broken

But it does stop Catcher and Lysandre. That is if Magcargo is actually being targeted with it. I.e., if it's on the Bench, and they try to play it on Magcargo. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks or doesn't think they would do; it's what's on the card that we have to go by. But of course, since the cards aren't officially out yet, we don't really know exactly what the rulings are. Who knows. They could do something really weird.

While you are right they would not effect the benched Magcargo that was not what the original poster had in mind. Nobody would be trying to catcher the Magcargo in this deck under normal circumstances. The idea was to use his ability as a way to prevent your other benched pokemon from being catchered which it does not do based off the current translation of the card.

My original intention was to use Magcargo blocking Lysandre when it is active. When I first posted this, I didn't completely understand Omega Barrier. And you're right, Wailord EX does make Donphan better(when will Pokemon realize that maybe, just maybe, Donphan is already broken enough.) But, with Virizion/Genesect now playing Deoxys, Genesect knocks it out(Megalo Cannon 100 + Muscle Band 20 + Deoxys 10 + weakness x2 = 260.)

 

[yorepoor]

I still don't get how they even made Maxie when Donphan is already tier 1. Putting a pokemon that you would usually spend lots of effort for on your bench at once and get rewarded for it? We yugioh now?
Anyways Wailord is a better wall than Magcargo as many already pointed out. Magcarco might still be nice at times though, to block lasers and stuff. In the end it's probably not worth it.
You should probably look into some good fighting pokemon like M Lucario and stuff because you can just Juniper them away and easily get them on the field with Maxie. Not sure if it's going to work out but I think it's worth trying out. I guess you could technically put a Primal Groudon in by that logic but I don't think his energy cost is worth it.
Even if you don't want to do all this, I honestly think 3 Maxie and 3 Ultra Ball will be broken and should be in every fighting-based deck. Maybe abusing this it wouldn't be a bad idea to run Trump Card but that's personal preference.

 

[rogueimagination]

Macargo is not the problem and not good in the deck since I think water deck will rise in popularity and seismetoad would get the knockout and the prize due to weakness. Waillord is great wall but wont be good if a seismetoad shows up since you have no way to heal it (due to item lock) and possible no retreat it. But donphan should stay strong. Just not as strong as it once was.