Why not Mightyena PL?

Silver Sea Lugia

Silver Sea Lugia

Champion Trainer
Member
Okay, lets clear the air. Why is Gyarados SF to be chosen over Mightyena PL? Is there something about Gyarados that's better then Mightyena? I'm not saying Mightyena's any better, I would like to know which one is better and why. I would really like to know, because I came to this conclusion:

-Gyarados can do 90 for nothing
-Mightyena can do 90 for nothing but poison

-Gyarados has Resistance to fighting and has 40+HP
-Mightyena is always poisoned and has 40-less HP then Gyarados. But Mightyena has free retreat, resistance to Psychic, and is faster then Gyarados.

-There both stage 1's

-Gyarados must dump 2 to 3 Magikarps to get going
-Mightyena must Poison itself to get going

So could you please tell me: Why does Gyarados dominate the format, but Mightyena is no where to be seen?

Thanks :)

Deck_Master
 
it's easier to dump 2-3 Magikarp than it is poison yourself with Mightyena

the +40HP is a big factor in today's hit dmg speed format

in order for you to poison Mightyena yourself, you need a stadium in play, which makes you very susceptible to Flygon's Sand Wall, which is a popular deck in the format right now
 
Mightyena dies too fast..also without any Stadiums out on your side of the field Skuntank G doesn't work and Flygon could just Sand Wall all your Stadiums away.
 
qnetykz said:
it's easier to dump 2-3 Magikarp than it is poison yourself with Mightyena

the +40HP is a big factor in today's hit dmg speed format

in order for you to poison Mightyena yourself, you need a stadium in play, which makes you very susceptible to Flygon's Sand Wall, which is a popular deck in the format right now
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying, but I disagree. I think its easier to set-up up Mightyena. Gyarados doesn't always start with Sableye because of all there techs and Magikarp. You could just retreat but then your loosing consistency.

About Sand Wall, your absolutely right! Why didn't I think of this? Thing of it is:

If I hit for 90 + Poison, they will hit me with Sand Wall, bringing me to 60 HP. They will be up to 100 between turns, I Flash Bite, then there toast on there next turn (or if I had a dark on me I wouldn't need the Flash Bite) Then, they do lots of damage just to knock out my 20HP Mightyena.

Repeating this process isn't hard due to Cynthia's Feeling's and Lucky Egg when its out (along with Night Maintenance or Pokemon Rescue or Time Space) I might even tech a Minum SW. Since I can run 42 Trainers in my list, I play 8 mixed stadiums just to be safe.

And if there not loosing, they don't get there Upper Energy's. There Flygon Lv.X can't Extreme attack anybody. I think Flygon would be tuff but thats it.

Any other reason why Gyrados is chosen over Mightyena, or vise-versa?

Deck_Master
 
Deck Master said:
Thanks for replying, but I disagree. I think its easier to set-up up Mightyena. Gyarados doesn't always start with Sableye because of all there techs and Magikarp. You could just retreat but then your loosing consistency.

About Sand Wall, your absolutely right! Why didn't I think of this? Thing of it is:

If I hit for 90 + Poison, they will hit me with Sand Wall, bringing me to 60 HP. They will be up to 100 between turns, I Flash Bite, then there toast on there next turn (or if I had a dark on me I wouldn't need the Flash Bite) Then, they do lots of damage just to knock out my 20HP Mightyena.

Repeating this process isn't hard due to Cynthia's Feeling's and Lucky Egg when its out (along with Night Maintenance or Pokemon Rescue or Time Space) I might even tech a Minum SW. Since I can run 42 Trainers in my list, I play 8 mixed stadiums just to be safe.

And if there not loosing, they don't get there Upper Energy's. There Flygon Lv.X can't Extreme attack anybody. I think Flygon would be tuff but thats it.

Any other reason why Gyrados is chosen over Mightyena, or vise-versa?

Deck_Master
Click to expand...

actually, Gyarados does set-up faster...it doesn't have to neccessarily start with Sableye to get the Karps discarded, especially if it goes 2nd...plus Gyarados also has plenty other pokemon they can use for fodder until they're ready...not to mention, Gyarados has a much easier time for recovery than Mightyena and is a bit harder to KO

as for the Flygon match-up...most Flygon decks not only have more than one Flygon ready (at least mine does), but the supportive pokemon that people use in Flygon are often Fighting pokemon, which easily works against you being Mightyena is weak to fighting...so you hit one Flygon, they retreat Sand Wall with the next, and then you're stuck having to get another Stadium in play and having to either move the Sand Wall'd Flygon from active or lose an attacking turn...if you go for moving the Flygon, they have fodder they can throw up to retreat...if you go to lose an attacking turn, then you fall behind in prizes

the low HP is the main thing that makes Mightyena less of a viable deck, and Gyarados more of a viable deck than Mightyena...if really want to test it out...take Lou Cypher's Gyarados list, and put it against your Mightyena list, and see how it fares
 
qnetykz said:
actually, Gyarados does set-up faster...it doesn't have to neccessarily start with Sableye to get the Karps discarded, especially if it goes 2nd...plus Gyarados also has plenty other pokemon they can use for fodder until they're ready...not to mention, Gyarados has a much easier time for recovery than Mightyena and is a bit harder to KO

as for the Flygon match-up...most Flygon decks not only have more than one Flygon ready (at least mine does), but the supportive pokemon that people use in Flygon are often Fighting pokemon, which easily works against you being Mightyena is weak to fighting...so you hit one Flygon, they retreat Sand Wall with the next, and then you're stuck having to get another Stadium in play and having to either move the Sand Wall'd Flygon from active or lose an attacking turn...if you go for moving the Flygon, they have fodder they can throw up to retreat...if you go to lose an attacking turn, then you fall behind in prizes

the low HP is the main thing that makes Mightyena less of a viable deck, and Gyarados more of a viable deck than Mightyena...if really want to test it out...take Lou Cypher's Gyarados list, and put it against your Mightyena list, and see how it fares
Click to expand...

Nope. It won't matter how many Flygons you have in play if you don't have the necessary energy to attack. I OHKO the Flygon before he can retreat (if he decides to retreat to get rid of the poison, then he can't Wall Of Sand that turn. So he has the option to retreat but it may not be in his best favor). I think people choose Nidoqueen and Dusknoir over Machamp now, but they come mid/late game anyways, especially late game if your busy setting up Flygons to Sacrifice or 1 is prized.

The low HP could be what I want. Cynthia's Feelings and Lucky Egg in a deck of no Claydol can be very beneficial. I happen to play 1x Mr.Mime. Poison the Mightyena/Gyrados and retreat free for the Mime. Lou plays 4 Call Energy that can't be recycled and searched by Roseanne's. If it weren't for Mime, you'd be right, probable be 50-50.

My biggest concern about using Gyrados is the fact that its now archetype, meaning people will tech against it and choose decks that have there favor. A tier 1, that won BR's, that's cheap to build is definitely an archetype to me.

Deck_Master
 
In case you're wondering how I'll fare against a Mr. Mime if I'm poisoned - I run 3 Warp Point, 4 Super Scoop Up and Luxray LVX for a reason. I can just play around you, get to your Skuntank and KO it.
The whole thing however is this. Mightyena has a virtual 70 HP. 90 to start with, 20 of poison before he strikes again. Look at all the cards that can OHKO it or come VERY close to it - Beedrill, Gyarados, Kingdra, Machamp, Flygon, Pretty much every other deck under the sun.
Gyarados has 130 HP. Which often played cards can OHKO it? Machamp LVX on 3 heads.....Gengar on 5 trainers.....Luxray LVX with either a discard or a crobat and backfire and Lucario....and that's about it. Thats the whole thing here - Gyarados can strike hard and live another day. Mightyena can not.
 
Well then you probable would have the advantage. But I'm not worried about your list. What about the other Gyarados lists? They may not run those specific cards, and SSU is either your best friend or your own worst enemy.

That's Mightyena's soul purpose. Dying for a 90+ Poison, which I love versing Fainting Spell because you may end up dead anyways (OHKO). Poor Gyarados can't OHKO Gengar and can suffer Fainting Spell.

I have one good reason why I don't want to run Gyarados. Nobody is gonna play a deck that gets beat by it! Nobody. If it weren't for this, I'd probable be in favor for it. But even if Mightyena is slightly worse then Gyarados (but unexpected), I don't get why it should be forgotten..

Deck_Master
 
Deck Master said:
Nope. It won't matter how many Flygons you have in play if you don't have the necessary energy to attack. I OHKO the Flygon before he can retreat (if he decides to retreat to get rid of the poison, then he can't Wall Of Sand that turn). I think people choose Nidoqueen and Dusknoir over Machamp now, but they come mid/late game anyways, especially late game if your busy setting up Flygons to Sacrafice.

The low HP could be what I want. Cynthia's Feelings and Lucky Egg in a deck of no Claydol can be very beneficial. I happen to play 1x Mr.Mime. Poison the Mightyena/Gyrados and retreat free for the Mime. Lou plays 4 Call Energy that can't be recycled and searched by Roseanne's. If it weren't for Mime, it would would probable be 50-50.

My biggest concern about using Gyrados is the fact that its now archetype, meaning people will tech against it and choose decks that have there favor. A tier 1 that's cheap to build is definitely an archetype to me.

Deck_Master
Click to expand...

I have no problem having more than one Flygon ready (which was the purpose of saying a Flygon "READY") to go with energies to attack with...and if they are using "queen", then your extra dmg from poison is then negated, so all you're doing is just 80, while you're steady taking poison dmg yourself, making you much easier to KO...and where do you OHKO Flygon...the most you do with no energy is 90, because of the poison, that's still 30HP to go (40 if it's X'd)

so you get 9 cards w/CF and Egg, 1 one of which you can choose...but more often than not, you're just going to repeat the process...you plan to have 1 tool in play, and I wouldn't be surprised if you planned on having Unown G in the deck as well...that then makes Mightyena prize fodder to even Relicanth (which is a well known tech these days), thanks in part to your own poison...you can keep going round and round about the Flygon matchup and giving situations that seem favorable, and I can do the same...as I've said this many times before, it's all about the player and their ability to out strategize their opponent

something can look good on paper, but is actual gameplay, it can easily not go as planned...no matter how much consistency is put into a deck...you asked for reasons why, I gave you reasons why...giving me situational rebuttals to those reasons, are still not going to change the reasons

Deck Master said:
Well then you probable would have the advantage. But I'm not worried about your list. What about the other Gyarados lists? They may not run those specific cards, and SSU is either your best friend or your own worst enemy.

That's Mightyena's soul purpose. Dying for a 90+ Poison, which I love versing Fainting Spell because you may end up dead anyways (OHKO). Poor Gyarados can't OHKO Gengar and can suffer Fainting Spell.

I have one good reason why I don't want to run Gyarados. Nobody is gonna play a deck that gets beat by it! Nobody. If it weren't for this, I'd probable be in favor for it. But even if Mightyena is slightly worse then Gyarados (but unexpected), I don't get why it should be forgotten..

Deck_Master
Click to expand...

the trainer line for most Gyarados decks are fairly similar to Lou's deck (save the TSD's of course)...the biggest difference in Gyarados decks are the pokemon that are run for support (outside of Sableye)...the deck is forgotten because there are too many ways around it, that can change over time, but for right now, it doesn't have enough support to make it viable in the metagame
 
i played gyarados against toxitank at the last BRs. he set up fast and took the first two prizes. I set up gyarados and was OHKOing mightyena while he could only 2HKO me and hope i missed my SSUs. ultimately i won 6-4. mightyena simply isn't as powerful as gyarados.
 
mightyena does nothing at all to SP decks. they power spray your skuntank and your screwed. or they just poketurn and hit you for 70 KO. mightyena is just way to frail compared to gyarados.
 
There's also the fact that if you put them face to face, Gyarados is going to DESTROY you, considering your 2nd attack is only doing base 50 to them, they're running counter stadiums, and they kill all of your Mightyenas in 1 hit. Gyarados is a pretty popular deck in itself, and on top of your negative matchups vs. Beedrill and logically Flygon, it just doesn't make the cut.
 
There's also the fact that if they dont charge for dragon beat they will also have zero energies making desperate attack useless.
 
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