Discussion Why Was This Overlooked?!

xJaq7

Aspiring Trainer
Member
*Disclaimer* I've only been playing Pokemon TCG for 8 Months so I missed the release of Fates Collide
but why have I never seen this card been played?!

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Imagine your opponents playing Vespiquen or Passimian/Mew and they have no Special Energy in play and you pop this down with a stadium, how will they win, Field Blower?
Well what about this.

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Now how will they beat you, they can't just bump your stadium.
They better hope they have a Wobbuffet or Garbodor!

LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK!!
 
A few problems with it, delinquent would still remove the stadium and hex maniac would turn your abilities off both allowing the. To play their energy and both easily obtained due to lele. Also as you said it stops Vespiquen and passimin well but decks like Volcanion, Metagross or Vikavolt that don't play special energies you for a few dead cards in ur deck. Lastly that combo is really great but only turn one because your opponent will likely dig for their special energies if it's their only way to attack and to get a stadium a stage 1 and a stage 2 up on turn one is very difficult and I'd assume something else as your many attacker. But if your locals are full of Vespiquen decks definitely think about chucking 1-1 barbarcle in your deck.
 
*Disclaimer* I've only been playing Pokemon TCG for 8 Months so I missed the release of Fates Collide
but why have I never seen this card been played?!

1094067.jpg


Imagine your opponents playing Vespiquen or Passimian/Mew and they have no Special Energy in play and you pop this down with a stadium, how will they win, Field Blower?

LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK!!
I was running a barbaracle in a few sets last year online before night march rotated, as well as some of fighting decks using strong energy. It's a fun card to play but as the muddy gamer posted above it is much easier to shut off abilities and remove stadium cards. You are right though if you could get set up and then put down vileplume it makes it that much difficult for opponent to set up special energy...which is again very important to many decks.
 
It's not used because the stadium card has to be your own as well so it's an effect that many decks can get rid of on their turn and potentially knock out barbaracle on that turn
 
It's a pretty large deck investment for the effect. Giratina was the choice special energy locker for most of the last format.
 
It wasn't overlooked, it was tried and found wanting. If you want to know why read on, but I'm only adding a few bits while weaving the previous responses into a coherent whole.

First, here is what I thought of the card around its release, quoted from another website.

Barbaracle (XY: Fates Collide 23/124) is our eighth place finisher. As a Water Type it faces a little bit of Resistance from BW-era Grass Types but nearly every Fire Type and a chunk of the Fighting Type sport Water Weakness, definitely a net benefit. Water Type doesn’t impress me as much as what Fighting has going for it, but it is still abundant. There are plenty of winners among them both in terms of explicit support that only works for the Water Type (or specified Types including Water), as well as those cards that just work better with the Water Type but can still function well with others. There are some anti-Water Type effects but they just are only relevant enough to acknowledge, but not to detail. Being a Stage 1 means it takes some extra effort and/or time to get into play over being a Basic, but the Stage still has a presence, sometimes even without Evolution acceleration, so it’s solid. 100 HP means it is a likely OHKO, but it might last two turns against a poor setup or serious attack focused on something other than damaging the opponent’s Active. The Grass Weakness can be dangerous; even though 100 HP won’t go that far anyway, key numbers like the 50 damage Virizion-EX does with “Emerald Slash” get doubled into OHKO territory. No Resistance is typical but more a missed opportunity than a flaw, so moving onto the Retreat Cost of [CCC]; this is chunky so pack an out in case Barbaracle gets stuck up front but not OHKOed.

Barbaracle has an Ability and an attack. The Ability is “Hand Block”, which only works while you have a Stadium in play. I am emphasizing “you” because in all honesty that didn’t sink in until the third or fourth time I read the grovyle kids reasoning behind picking Barbaracle for his Top 10 list, and that was maybe 30 minutes ago! If your opponent can discard your Stadium (whether by playing their own, using Delinquent, etc.), Hand Block shuts itself off. So it had better have an awesome effect for something which most decks have at least three answers. Hand Block prevents your opponent (not both players) from attaching Special Energy cards from his or her hand to his or her Pokémon in play. That… that just might do it. Obviously meaningless against a deck relying on Basic Energy cards, against the many that favor Special Energy cards, there is a rhythm to the game and if you miss an attachment it can cost you big. So a one-sided soft lock can still be quite effective. The attack is “Claw Slash” for [WWC] to do 70 damage; overpriced vanilla filler, but at least it isn’t totally unreasonable. Still the Ability is why you would bother with this card.

Barbaracle Evolves from Binacle, and we have three options: XY: Flashfire 48/106, XY: Roaring Skies 38/108, and XY: Fates Collide 22/124. All are Basic Pokémon with Grass Weakness, no Resistance, no Ancient Trait, and no Ability. XY: Flashfire 48/106 is a Fighting Type with 70 HP and a single attack - Double Scratch - that requires [FF] to flip two coins and does 30 damage per “heads”. XY: Roaring Skies 38/108 also a Fighting Type, this time with 60 HP and two attacks; for [F] it can use “Sand Attack” to force the Defending Pokémon to flip a coin if it tries to attack the next turn while for [FFC] it can use “Mud-Slap” for 40. XY: Fates Collide 22/124 is a Water Type with 60 HP and (once again) a single attack: this time it is “Swing Around” for [WC] to do 10 damage plus two coin flips good for 20 more damage per “heads”. None of these are worth attacking with so just go with XY: Flashfire 48/106 for its 70 HP or - if you are including an expendable source of [F] Energy then XY: Roaring Skies 38/108 can try to buy time with its Sand Attack, sadly the best attack available on these Pokémon. You could use Archie’s Ace in the Hole, but that tends to be overkill for a Stage 1, as I had to learn through trial and error even though plenty tried to warn me.

There is only one other Barbaracle, XY: Flashfire 49/106, which is a Stage 1 Fighting Type with 110 HP, Grass Weakness, no Resistance, Retreat Cost [CC], no Ancient Trait, no Ability and two attacks. For [FF] you can use “Rock Rush” which does 30 damage times how ever many [F] Energy you decided to discard from hand for the attack. [FFF] allows you to use “Boulder Crash” instead for a flat 80 points of damage. Baby Mario and aroramage looked at the card here and thought it had a little potential as a fun card and I personally tried to make it work back when it was newish and struggled to keep streaming Barbaracle while filling my hand with a fresh supply of Fighting Energy; we’ve gotten some potential help since then but even if it were to help the damage output is just a bit low; you need to discard six or more Energy to discard to OHKO most major Pokémon-EX. So Barbaracle isn’t getting any help from its lower Stages or its alternate version.

Where should you use Barbaracle? I honestly don’t know, which (hint hint) might be why this card didn’t rank higher in this Top 10. It isn’t too difficult to slap a Stage 1 like this as a 1-1 or a 2-2 line into a variety of decks, so long as they don’t go skimpy on Stadium cards. Bench Binacle when you’ve got another target worth taking out, and your opponent either risks losing (usually important) Special Energy card attachments or it has to ignore said other target and take out Binacle. It is at least plausible to include it in a variety of aggressive decks to make countering your assault more difficult or tacked onto anything other than Ability lock, to deny your opponent another option. The question is what decks can make room for the tactic and will the soft lock really be enough to propel Barbaracle over a similar Bench-sitter. So it is a card with promise for Standard and Expanded play, but what about Limited? If you’re going to run a Water focused deck, go for it, but while there are Double Colorless Energy and Strong Energy to potentially block, they aren’t prevalent enough for it to be worth the effort unless your deck already needs padding out.

Ratings

Standard: 3.6/5

Expanded: 3.6/5

Limited: 3/5

Summary: Barbaracle can effect a somewhat soft Special Energy lock; a few decks go light on ways to get rid of opposing Stadium cards, and if they rely on Special Energy Barbaracle would be a terror, but for most it strikes me as a “Hope to make a bad moment for the opponent worse by getting Hand Block going. If you could avoid telegraphic it, the sudden surprise could be quite effective late game, when your opponent has fewer options to get rid of your own Stadium cards.

I had Barbaracle as my sixth place pick, but remember I already confessed to misreading Hand Block as requiring a Stadium be in play instead of requiring your Stadium being in play. I’d probably have still kept it in my Top 10, but dropped it to the ninth or tenth place spot had I noticed.

If you actually can stand reading all of that, I think you now know what went wrong, even though I actually expected some Barbaracle using decks to arise (and they didn't :p). S'why I write such long reviews; if I get an initial assumption wrong or the conclusion, you can still get something useful out of it.

1) Many decks do not rely on Special Energy, and some can attach from the discard pile. Off the top of my head, I don't remember if those were the top decks at the time but remember the janken-style relationships in Pokémon. Barbaracle took up space that could be used to for more general counters or improved reliability, so even if these were second-stringers, the Barbaracle deck may ultimately just help them triumph.

2) It is a Stage 1, so unless you dedicate your opening turn to getting it out via Archie's Ace in the Hole or Wally, your opponent gets at least one turn (maybe two) of being able to use Special Energy. This, in turn, may be all your opponent needed to use Lysandre to force your 100 HP Barbaracle Active, where it is (was) a fairly easy OHKO. You might include some tricks to help with that but...

3) Barbaracle can end up clashing with other typical deck tricks. You can't use a more general trick like Hex Maniac shut down a problem Ability for the turn without giving your opponent a shot at attaching Special Energy. Obviously, you're not using Garbodor (XY: BREAKpoint 57/122) to deny an opponent's Abilities at the same time as you deny your opponent Special Energy. Vileplume (XY: Ancient Origins 3/98) makes it s you can't use Items either. No Enhanced Hammer to take care of some Special Energy already in play, no Crushing Hammer to try and do the same with either basic or Special Energy. Plus, if Barbaracle itself goes down while Vileplume remains in play, it will be that much harder for you to set it back up.

4) Speaking of Vileplume, you're suggesting it to counter something that was not a problem for Barbaracle when it first released; we only just got Field Blower so apparently playing one's own Stadium, Delinquent, and/or Paint Roller were enough to wreck Hand Block. Well, that combined with the other stuff I mentioned.

5) Giratina-EX (XY: Ancient Origins 57/98, 93/98) just did the job better; it used an attack so it wasn't until Pokémon Ranger that the effect could be countered quite so easily. Giratina-EX was a good attacker, so it was okay that it was stuck out front. Plus its Ability was an issue for Mega Evolutions, at the time one of the few threats a big, Basic Pokémon-EX really had to fear once Special Energy was gone. As a bonus, it also messed with an opponent's Tools and Stadiums!

Now... just because there were real reasons for this one, don't be afraid to keep looking, asking, and experimenting. That's how you get better and do find hidden gems. :)
 
It was not used/overlooked/skipped because just having great Abilities doesn't make a Pokemon functional 'enough' in most cases. The Ability if anything is a great addition to amp certain strategies but there is still a requirement in this case of a main attacker because both examples are non-basic Pokemon and thus require more than 1 slot to be taken in your deck. In both cases those basic Pokemon that their line requires is bad to mediocre. This mediocrity can be migated by running a thin line like 1-1 or 1-0-1 but in the end this is what we call typically clunky.

Then if there are remotely better abilities or supporters, stadiums you name it that do something similar for less of a set up you'll know that pokemon X or Y is very unlikely to ever see competitive play, despite me liking stage 1 and 2 Pokemon a lot aswell.

Luckily Olivia is comming up eventually and this will mean that most GX stage 1 and 2 Pokemon will have a good function, granted we do then need more great stage 1 and 2 GX, they are there but not all are as impactful as I hoped.
 
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The only reason this card wasn't played it because it says your own stadium, which means if you really wanted to play it your deck always had to win the stadium war, which a lot of decks aren't gonna do just to tech this in, only for your opponent to play their own stadium, then start attaching.
 
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