Xatu UL as a Gothitelle counter

[blargh257]

http://tcgscans.com/?s=xatu&form=small

(i'm bad at posting scans)

I think it's just broken. if Goth is at the minimum power necessary for it to be any threat (against most decks) then this is always a OHKO. if they're not at full power, then it will do damage, and you can use Kingdra, Magby, or Black Belt to take the KO.

What do you think?

 

[Celebi23]

It's okay if you're already running Psychic, but the only decks running Psychic are Gothitelle and Mew. Mew already beats Gothitelle, and if you use it in Gothitelle mirror, your Reuniclus will be Catcher + OHKO'd, and they don't need 4 energy on a Goth anyway.

It also needs to be a bulky line, since they can Catcher + KO the Natu.

So it's an okay tech. I prefer Magby or Mew, but honestly, outside of Mew, there isn't a great hard counter for Gothitelle.

 

[Futa]

Black Belt to take the KO.

Goth will always try to make sure that when it's your turn again, it'll be even prizes (so you won't be able to Black Belt).

Celebi hit the nail on the head. Gothitelle needs four Energy in order for Xatu to KO it, in which Goth can just Catcher up Xatu/Natu and KO it then. Besides, since Xatu requires a Psychic Energy, you'd be better off running Mew/a few other techs if necessary, Magby, Bellsprout, or Smoochum, as they can counter Gothitelle well (more so Mew and Magby) while taking up much less deck space.

 

[The Yoshi]

Pro-tip: If you want a scan in the future, then just go to pokebeach.com -----> set of the card under car scans -----> right-click Copy Image Location ----->

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So I don't know if Xatu is the best card to counter Gothitelle (since Celebi stated that there is no true Gothitelle counter), however, I always like to see every card get a good use, so I would use Xatu. I believe Mew Prime is a little more superior to Xatu, but Xatu can get an early lead on Gothitas that haven't evolved yet, and still manipulate your opponent. You can also KO their Solosis and then pick off the Gothitelles late-game, but either way is fine. Other than that, Xatu doesn't have much of a use other than Gothitelle, and due to Catcher KOs, you'd have to run a heavy line of Natu + Xatu, which decreases consistency in the deck and causes the deck to function slower, just so you can get a KO on a Gothitelle.

Now I really wish that Xatu had a Darkness weakness.....

 

[dBlue]

Mew is a better counter, but it also is difficult to tech into any deck because it needs to LZ a pokemon w/ a psychic. What counters will work depends on your deck.

 

[Glace]

Pro-tip: If you want a scan in the future, then just go to pokebeach.com -----> set of the card under car scans -----> right-click Copy Image Location ----->

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It isn't a direct link therefore he could not do that.


I like it.


In a Stage 1s deck that already uses a few Rainbow Energy, a 2-2 Xatu to improve an autoloss is worth it for sure.

 

[AmishEskimoNinja]

How does magby counter gothitelle?!

I think next to mew, xatu is probably the best gothitelle counter. If you think about it, you're going to need at least 4 cards for mew, 2 mews, a lost zone tech, and an energy. You can run the same with Xatu, 2 natu, 1 xatu, and an energy.

 

[Glace]

I posted and your post showed up about a second after...

Magby burns the Gothitelle, so after burn damage, a Zekrom or Reshiram can ko the Gothitelle.

 

[AmishEskimoNinja]

So option B is just to run a magnezone line. Since its helping you draw, its a nice tech to have anyway.

 

[The Yoshi]

It isn't a direct link therefore he could not do that.

Which is why I suggest he uses PB scans in the future.

Anyway, Xatu is definitely the second priority for a Gothitelle counter next to Mew. Though let's think about it this way:

Xatu takes up a 2-2 line, which is only making the player take out 4 cards.

Mew can take up to 5 cards, depending on how many Relicanth and Mew you run (plus if you want to use Bellsprout), so 2 Relicanth, 2 Mew, and a Bellsprout takes up more space (though any of these cards can have a shorter line).

Wouldn't Xatu be better in this case?

 

[Futa]

To be honest, how effective Xatu is depends on the current game state, but I'm still leaning towards no. While a double Natu drop might seem effective, it will ONLY work when...

-You can guarantee that you can evolve into Xatu during your next turn
-Gothitelle has four Energy attached to it
-You don't show your opponent that you're running Xatu, as they could neglect to quadruple attach
-Your opponent isn't running Shaymin
-Your opponent isn't able to setup another Gothitelle (this is unlikely)

@Yoshi: Unless I'm having a brain fart, why put Bellsprout in when you already have Relicanth/Mew?

 

[blargh257]

Well, i'm wrong again about a card. typical.

i still think this would work in google or another vileplume variant. if you get vileplume then xatu cannot and therefore will not be catchered.

 

[Celebi23]

Pro-tip: If you want a scan in the future, then just go to pokebeach.com -----> set of the card under car scans -----> right-click Copy Image Location ----->

.

So I don't know if Xatu is the best card to counter Gothitelle (since Celebi stated that there is no true Gothitelle counter), however, I always like to see every card get a good use, so I would use Xatu. I believe Mew Prime is a little more superior to Xatu, but Xatu can get an early lead on Gothitas that haven't evolved yet, and still manipulate your opponent. You can also KO their Solosis and then pick off the Gothitelles late-game, but either way is fine. Other than that, Xatu doesn't have much of a use other than Gothitelle, and due to Catcher KOs, you'd have to run a heavy line of Natu + Xatu, which decreases consistency in the deck and causes the deck to function slower, just so you can get a KO on a Gothitelle.

Now I really wish that Xatu had a Darkness weakness....

Why would I go around attaching energy to my Solosis, and double energy to my Gothitas? Mew can actually get early game KOs on these cards.

Which is why I suggest he uses PokéBeach scans in the future.

Anyway, Xatu is definitely the second priority for a Gothitelle counter next to Mew. Though let's think about it this way:

Xatu takes up a 2-2 line, which is only making the player take out 4 cards.

Mew can take up to 5 cards, depending on how many Relicanth and Mew you run (plus if you want to use Bellsprout), so 2 Relicanth, 2 Mew, and a Bellsprout takes up more space (though any of these cards can have a shorter line).

Wouldn't Xatu be better in this case?

Xatu only works in a deck already running Psychic. Put Mew in a deck already running Psychic, and you don't need any Relicanth. Bellsprout is pointless, too. So now you're looking at 2-3 cards vs 4 cards. Also, you would only run 1 Relicanth in other versions. The 2nd is bad since it's a bad start and you only need one in a game.

 

[Domo]

I think this is a pretty good idea, but only if ur running some raimbo energy or a psycic deck-but lets not forget the guy who was running ambivile(abipom weavile) at nats ran a 1-1 line of this to counter machamp--i think this a good idea and ima have to try it out.

 

[Glace]

Xatu only works in a deck already running Psychic. Put Mew in a deck already running Psychic, and you don't need any Relicanth. Bellsprout is pointless, too. So now you're looking at 2-3 cards vs 4 cards. Also, you would only run 1 Relicanth in other versions. The 2nd is bad since it's a bad start and you only need one in a game.

Most decks that need a hard counter also use Rainbow Energy- Stage 1s, DD, etc. Mostly Stage 1 decks using Rainbow. No {P} needed.

To be honest, how effective Xatu is depends on the current game state, but I'm still leaning towards no. While a double Natu drop might seem effective, it will ONLY work when...

-You can guarantee that you can evolve into Xatu during your next turn
-Gothitelle has four Energy attached to it
-You don't show your opponent that you're running Xatu, as they could neglect to quadruple attach
-Your opponent isn't running Shaymin
-Your opponent isn't able to setup another Gothitelle (this is unlikely)

Or don't bench the double Natu until you can evolve and ko. Benching Natu when you don't have Xatu or the energy (or a way to get them) is not a good argument as good players wouldn't do that.

 

[Futa]

Or don't bench the double Natu until you can evolve and ko. Benching Natu when you don't have Xatu or the energy (or a way to get them) is not a good argument as good players wouldn't do that.

That's exactly my point. Since you can't Communicate into Xatu (at least when Goth gets out, and doing so earlier lets the Goth player realize you're running Xatu), the only way you can get the Xatu is by drawing into it. Having to draw into the Xatu, two Natu, and Rainbow/Psychic is a hassle to do, even with Collector.

 

[Celebi23]

Most decks that need a hard counter also use Rainbow Energy- Stage 1s, DD, etc. Mostly Stage 1 decks using Rainbow. No {P} needed.

Then the point about Mew taking up more space than Gothitelle doesn't work either, since you already have the Rainbow in there for Mew, too, and 3 Mew/1 Relicanth is a completely logical split, as is 2/1, so Mew takes up the same amount or less space than Xatu, but it can be used in other matchups and is a godly starter.

 

[Glace]

That's exactly my point. Since you can't Communicate into Xatu (at least when Goth gets out, and doing so earlier lets the Goth player realize you're running Xatu), the only way you can get the Xatu is by drawing into it. Having to draw into the Xatu, two Natu, and Rainbow/Psychic is a hassle to do, even with Collector.

Yeah.

Then the point about Mew taking up more space than Gothitelle doesn't work either, since you already have the Rainbow in there for Mew, too, and 3 Mew/1 Relicanth is a completely logical split, as is 2/1, so Mew takes up the same amount or less space than Xatu, but it can be used in other matchups and is a godly starter.

3/1 is better for consistency, so they take up 4 cards each.

 

[James]

Xatu is a horrible Gothitelle counter. I really have no other way of saying it, sorry.

I thought of Xatu as a Goth counter as well, but I can safely say that outside of a stage 1 rush deck (a possible exception might be Mewbox), Xatu has no place in any deck. The sole reason for this is that Xatu requires a turn to evolve, which ruins it's ''surprise'' effect. Of course you could drop 2 Natu to assure you can get the Xatu, but as stated earlier, Gothitelle will just Catcher the first, and later KO the second.

About 80% (this is a rough guess, not an actual statement) of all Gothitelle decks also runs Zekrom/Reshiram, which has no problems at all to KO a Xatu, while Xatu will only hit for 40 to 60 damage at most. While most Gothitelle decks will rarely do this since it will break the Trainer lock, don't forget it is a move they can exploit to easily get rid of your counter, and afterwards they can continue to sweep. It also is a 1 to 2 card investment for Gothitelle, while it can be a 4+ card investment for you. No matter how you look at it, you will be the one getting the lower end of the bargain.

In my own conclusion Xatu could be an effective counter, the fact it needs to evolve just ruins it in my opinion. You'd be even better off just Lost Zoning the Xatu with Mew if you get the chance. And lets not get even started for when you get a lone Natu start (though unlikely, it can always happen).

 

[AmishEskimoNinja]

So on an unrelated note, I think Weezing is a much overlooked gothitelle counter. One double colorless energy is all you need, so its splashable in any deck. Of course you die too, but you took out their tank.