Standard XY-On: Primal Peace (Medicham / Primal Groudon EX)

[Joseph Redd]

Pokemon (15):

• 2 Groudon-EX (PCL 85)
• 2 Primal Groudon-EX (PCL 86)
• 4 Meditite (PCL 79)
• 4 Medicham (PCL 81)
• 1 Lucario-EX (FUF 54)
• 1 Bunnelby (PCL 121)
• 1 Shaymin-EX (ROS 77)

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (34):

• 3 Korrina
• 2 Shauna
• 2 Professor Sycamore
• 2 Professor Birch's Observations
• 1 Xerosic
• 1 Teammates
• 1 Lysandre
• 1 Ace Trainer
• 1 Hex Maniac
• 1 Sacred Ash
• 4 VS Seeker
• 1 Escape Rope
• 1 Switch
• 2 Ultra Ball
• 2 Mega Turbo
• 1 Professor's Letter
• 2 Silent Lab
• 2 Fighting Stadium
• 2 Muscle Band
• 2 Groudon Spirit Link

Energy (11):

• 4 Strong Energy
• 7 Fighting Energy

Strategy:

First off, I want to apologize ahead of time for the lengthy post. I wanted to be as detailed as possible with my submission and answer as many questions as possible. With that out of the way, on with the deck. I created this deck because I really love Primal Groudon and I have been trying to make him work for the XY-on Format. Above is the “XY-on” list that I am going to test out and the one I am asking for help with. I also posted the list I am currently testing with online until Ancient Origins comes out. I got the idea from seeing a couple of Medicham decks and looking further into Medicham, I began to see how much damage he could do (especially against EX Pokémon) and how quickly he could do it. I began to test just Medicham and I had already been testing Primal Groudon and various partners (Wobbuffet, Wailord EX, Robo Substitute, and a few others as well). In my playtesting (online and with friends), I noticed a few things:

1) Medicham can struggle to keep up with constant OHKO’s in the late game.
2) Primal Groudon is SLOOOOOOOW to set up, and can struggle in the early game against speed decks that can dish out early, consistent damage, but…
3) Once Primal Groudon gets set up, he seems to be very difficult for most decks to deal with (even VirGen and other Grass types when I use Weakness Policy).
4) A lot of players tend to deal with one main attacker fairly easily, but can struggle against 2 main attackers.
5) I really don’t like Wobbuffet. Granted, his ability to shut down all non-Psychic abilities is amazing, but I would rather be dealing early damage and let Silent Lab shut of the set-up abilities rather than waiting for a switching card or for my opponent to KO Wobbuffet.

Seeing these and other things prompted me to think “what if I combined Primal Groudon’s strength in the late game with Medicham’s strength in the early game?” Thus, Primal Peace was born. The things I have noticed with this new deck are:
1) Medicham can surprise a lot of opponents with a lot of "unexpected" damage.
2) People often forget about Omega Barrage and Omega Barrier(I don’t count on this, I just think it is funny when people get surprised that Medicham just KOed their fresh EX or that they can’t HTL or Crushing/Enhanced Hammer/Lysandre Primal Groudon).
3) The early damage/KO’s from Medicham and Hawlucha REALLY help out Primal Groudon.
4) I don’t HAVE to use Primal Groudon or Medicham in every match (many times, the only EX I will bench will be Shaymin EX). This gives my deck multiple ways to win, and multiple main attackers (in case of Weakness, bad match-up, etc.) instead of just relying on one way or the other.
5) Sacred Ash and Bunnelby are PRICELESS. They have gotten me out of SO MANY situations. Even 1 turn of attacking with Bunnelby (even if he gets KOed immediately) can swing a game in my favor (for example, just when your opponent thought you were out of Strong Energies,RototillerX2=2 more in the deck).
6) I can often afford to set up behind a Meditite/Medicham/Hawlucha/etc. if necessary (especially handy VS. Toad). I tend to actually do very well under Item lock, which is one of the things I love about this deck.
8) I am very cautious about attaching energy to a non-Primal Groudon EX, even one on the bench (those Hammers are real).
9) The deck can be slow at times, but not inconsistent. This is often not a problem as, once Groudon/Medicham starts swinging, I can come back pretty quickly.
10) Facing Grass Decks, I am dependent on Weakness policy/Medicham.
11) Starting with a lone Meditite SUCKS (although he isn’t often alone for long).
12) I need to be very careful with my energy placements and my EX drops.
13) Yoga Kick doesn’t apply Weakness (and neither does Hawlucha, unless abilities are blocked).
14) I don’t play as many Draw cards as I would like.
15) Shaymin EX can be a liability and easy Lysandre bait
16) I can’t find a decent Substitute for Dowsing Machine(other than Bunnelby).
17) Item Lock, Ability Lock, and energy denial are all fairly easy for this deck to deal with. The deck is slow anyways, so Item lock slowing me down isn’t that big of a deal. Also, the items I do use are more of a “bonus” as opposed to being required for the deck to function. The deck doesn’t have any abilities other than Shaymin EX and Hawlucha. Shaymin EX I can work around, and I am glad when Hawlucha’s ability gets turned off. And energy denial has never been a problem because 1: Primal Groudon can’t be affected by most of it (other than Crawdaunt), 2: Medicham, Landorus, Lucario EX, and Hawlucha all attack for one or two energy. The combination of these two factors means that I don’t have to place down a lot of energy until I am ready to attack or until Groudon becomes Primal Groudon.

There are a lot of other things that go into the deck, but those are the ones that stand out to me at the moment. I am sure there are more, but that is part of the reason I am asking for help. Below I have posted the list I started with (Pre-Rotation), just so you all can know where I am coming from right now.

Spoiler

Pokemon: (17)

• 1 Hawlucha (FUF 63)
• 1 Lucario-EX (FUF 107)
• 4 Meditite (PCL 79)
• 4 Medicham (PCL 81)
• 1 Bunnelby (PCL 121)
• 2 Groudon EX (PCL 85)
• 2 Primal Groudon-EX (PCL 86)
• 1 Shaymin-EX (ROS 106)
• 1 Landorus (FUF 58)

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: (32)

• 2 Professor Sycamore
• 1 Switch
• 1 Professor Birch's Observations
• 1 Lysandre
• 1 Escape Rope
• 1 Xerosic
• 3 VS Seeker
• 2 Silent Lab
• 3 Muscle Band
• Sacred Ash
• 3 Ultra Ball
• 2 Shauna
• 2 Head Ringer
• 1 Shrine of Memories
• 1 Dowsing Machine
• 3 N
• 2 Fighting Stadium
• 2 Groudon Spirit Link

Energy: (11)

• 4 Strong Energy
• 7 Fighting Energy

I would also like to explain a couple of card choices (forgive me if any of them are obvious and/or missing) and some changes I have been considering/have already made as well as some cards I would like to make room for.
Lucario EX: Lucario is here for cheap, consistent damage and extra draw power. Corkscrew Smash has gotten me out of some tight spots, and the early damage from Missile Jab +Muscle Band (not to mention Strong Energy and Fighting Stadium) can serve the same purpose as Medicham’ s early damage, only it is on a 180HP Pokémon instead of a 90HP Pokémon. It is all around a great card, and is a great addition in the deck.
Bunnelby/Sacred Ash/Dowsing Machine(RIP): I touched on this above, but Bunnelby and Sacred Ash/Dowsing Machine allow me to recover anything from my discard pile(eliminating my opponent being able to run me out of resources), and to keep Medicham going in case I am in a situation where I don’t want to(or can’t) utilize Groudon/Lucario. Between Sacred Ash and Bunnelby, I have found that I am never in a position where I can’t recover the resources I need. With the loss of Dowsing Machine, I am much more conservative in my play, and much more careful about when I drop Bunnelby, but, as stated above, I haven’t found a suitable replacement for Dowsing Machine(other than Bunnelby). Bunnelby also happens to be a nice counter to WailordJ. There are also a few games where I will find my opponent with only a few cards left in their deck, and Bunnelby can assist me in decking them out (giving me another win condition).
2 Fighting Stadium/2 Silent Lab/1 Shrine of Memories: My stadium choice was the result of lots of playtesting and lots of research into other Primal Groudon and Medicham decks. 5 stadiums allows me to not only power up Primal Groudon consistently (in addition to the opponents stadiums), but I rarely have to worry about prizing both copies of the important stadiums (Shrine of Memories is more of a bonus, but essential in certain match-ups, i.e. allowing Medicham to hit for Weakness). Silent Lab is my answer to Safeguard (along with Landorus).
4 Strong Energy, 7 basic Fighting Energy: The four Strong Energy are common sense, but I settled on 7 Fighting Energy for a couple reasons. One, I wanted to be able to discard a few to bring back with Shout of Power while still being able to power up Medicham/Primal Groudon. Two, with all the Special Energy hate (Aegislash EX, Hammers, etc.) running around, I don’t want any of my attackers to have to rely on Strong Energy in order to attack.

I would like to make room for a few cards, but haven’t settled on what to remove. More draw power (Unown from AO sounds intriguing) has been something I have been looking for all along. I would also like to make room for one or two Robo Substitute so I don’t have to sacrifice Meditite as often. I have considered Hex Maniac (AO), but I seem to be getting by just fine with Silent Lab. I have considered removing Shaymin EX, because I don’t like the liability he presents on the bench, but I am loathe to get rid of him because of the power of his draw. I also want to find room for Korina and possibly Mega Turbo, as well as a second Landorus. I am sure there are other things I can change, but that is why I am coming to the Deck Garage for help. I am open to all forms of opinion, be they positive, negative, or neutral(as long as they follow Forum rules, of course).

 

[dialga586]

Wobbuffet/Primal Groudon is more consistent in my opinion, since you can stall with Wobbuffet while setting up your Primal Groudon.

 

[Joseph Redd]

Wobbuffet/Primal Groudon is more consistent in my opinion, since you can stall with Wobbuffet while setting up your Primal Groudon.

I do appreciate your opinion. I have been experimenting with a build that combines Wobbuffet,Robo Substitute, and Medicham with Primal Groudon (I know it sounds clunky on paper,but it is surprisingly consistant). Once I have access to my list, I will post it. I do understand that Wobbuffet is great at stalling against a lot of decks but there are quite a few decks that either don't care about Wobbuffet or can work around Wobbuffet. It is for those decks that I don't want to rely solely on Wobbuffet. I did test out Groudon/Wobbuffet, as well as many other variants, but I found about half of the decks I faced either 1) Killed Wobbuffet too quickly or 2) Set up while I was stuck with an active Wobbuffet. That is the main reason that I want to include Medicham and Robo Substitute. I understand that a lot of people prefer Wobbuffet/Robo Substitute as Primal Groudon's part, but I am asking people's help and advice with Medicham-inclusive Primal Groudon decks. I am perfectly fine with other opinions on better/different partners for Primal Groudon, but I already have data on those variants, which is why I am not asking for them here. Thank you anyways,though. If you hav any advice on Primal Groudon/Medicham, I would appreciate it, but I feel that giving the advice to essentially use a different deck is not very helpful.

 

[DevinTheWelf]

As it's been said, Wobb/Primal Groudon has much better consistency when built correctly. If you want to focus on just Medicham though, right now is the perfect time. With XY 7 giving us the Eeveelutions, Medicham has less of a struggle hitting for just enough damage to kill against most decks. Overall though, I think you'll be better off picking between the two, as they try to achieve different goals. Primal Groudon is meant for stalling because of his Ancient Trait, so the deck should be built accordingly to the mind set that you want to stall until you can get the perfect hit (this would be getting 3-4 prize cards from Groudon). Medicham on the other hand is pretty much all about just rushing right into as many Medichams as you can, and taking easy prizes for 2 energy (while also only giving one prize when killed). I can see why you would want to give Groudon a end game hitter, but using a stage 1 Pokemon takes up too much space. Cards like Hawlucha, Landorus, or Lucario EX do the job while also taking up less space.

But if you REALLY want to focus on using these two in a deck, I'd drop the Lucario EX, Shaymin EX, Bunnelby, and Landorus.

 

[Ratpool]

As it's been said, Wobb/Primal Groudon has much better consistency when built correctly. If you want to focus on just Medicham though, right now is the perfect time. With XY 7 giving us the Eeveelutions, Medicham has less of a struggle hitting for just enough damage to kill against most decks.

The eevolutions will not beneffit Medicham at all, because Yoga Kick says "This attack's damage isn't affected by Weakness or Resistance.", so it doesn't matter which type is Medicham

 

[DevinTheWelf]

The eevolutions will not beneffit Medicham at all, because Yoga Kick says "This attack's damage isn't affected by Weakness or Resistance.", so it doesn't matter which type is Medicham

Some people use Memory Shrine to use the first evolution's attack for 1 energy.

 

[dialga586]

Some people use Memory Shrine to use the first evolution's attack for 1 energy.

That may work, but if your opponent wins the stadium war, the eeveelutions don't help at all

 

[Joseph Redd]

Updated List(Current as of 22SEP2015)

After testing hundreds of games, talking to other players, and much thought, I have updated my list. The strategy is basically the same: Start with Medicham, apply early damage, come in and clean up with Primal Groudon-EX at the end. Some changes I am considering are switching out Focus Sash for Muscle Band (I have been testing both variants), removing Shaymin-EX, and adding a Shrine of Memories(not necessarily trading Shaymin-EX for Shrine of Memories). Please let me know what you all think. Thanks.

 

[Yo-yos]

-1 birch +1 korrina, 4 korrina is your entire engine, primal groudon anything is slow. I found something about medicham in my area, it's not worth the slot in a deck unless your going to play in 4-4 medicham and 2-3 hawlucha and call that a deck with 4 scarf and 3 eco arm, medicham is to much of a glass cannon, unless your play is to reduce consistency for all lines and run 4 mega turbo so your guaranteed the setup your just going to be scrambling to setup multiple medichams wasting precious turns to setup mega groudon.

3 wobb, 3-3 primal groudon is an infinitely better variant for a ton of different reason's. wobb applys pressure to decks that rely on abilities to setup there deck slowing there deck down to your level of speed, on average my setup time for primal groudon is anywhere between 2-3 on average. Robo sub's are your best friends by eliminating unnecessary hits towards groudon early on w/o losing prizes. Energy recycler, your main attacker loses 4 energy when it goes down and you only have 2 mega turbo. Healers which at most part is not optional for building the deck due to the fact that primal groudon in short is a sluggish attacker, you initially have 4 options, quad super potion and/or dusknior (as super potions discarding energy function is secondary), 2 center lady, and your 4th option is whimsicott aor.

I'm sorry but there is clearly 2 definitive decks your playing as 1.