Discussion XY9: The Set That Throws Balance Out the Window?

Empoleon_master

Empoleon_master

I can stop watching Anime any time I don't want to
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I make this thread because I've been playing for 6 years competitively and have NEVER seen a set that releases this many OP cards at once, I've seen bad formats, balanced formats, a combination of the two (BW-Boundaries crossed as there was landorus + lasers and Mewtwo EX, which was expensive to play, or you had the option of paying $360+ for 3 Tropical Beach to play Keldeo Blastoise)...and now we have a set that is releasing some cards that will seemingly make it rock paper Scizors for decks, because if you play anything else it pretty much gets locked out by the main 3 decks.

Here are the cards I am mainly concerned about either together or seperately ruining the format.

Kricketot – Grass – HP60
Basic Pokemon

[G] Bug’s Sense: Search your deck for 3 [G] Pokemon, show them to your opponent, then put them into your hand. Shuffle your deck afterward.

Weakness: Fire (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 1

That is a maybe for Durant decks if they do not run pure level and repeat balls.

Durant – Grass – HP70
Basic Pokemon

[G] Mountain Gnaw: 10 damage. Discard the top card of your opponent’s deck.

[G][C] Grind Down: If this Pokemon has any damage counters on it, discard the top 4 cards of your opponent’s deck.

Weakness: Fire (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 1
Use Xerneas XY + Team Magma's secret base and you get easy energy and damage onto Durant + future set up potential.

Garbodor – Psychic – HP100
Stage 1 – Evolves from Trubbish

Ability: Garbotoxin
If this Pokemon has a Pokemon Tool card attached to it, each Pokemon in play, in each player’s hand, and in each player’s discard pile has no Abilities (except Garbotoxin).

[P][C][C][C] Panic Bomb: 60 damage. Your opponent’s Active Pokemon is now Poisoned and Confused/

Weakness: Psychic (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 3
We all know someone will figure out a way to abuse this in this format of "who needs balance?" I believe it + Xerneas/Durant will basically be like throwing what Garbodor is made out of and calling it "a game of skill" at this point.

Phantump – Psychic – HP50
Basic Pokemon

[C] Ascension: Search your deck for a card that evolves from Phantump and put it onto Phantump. (This counts as evolving Phantump.) Shuffle your deck afterward.

Weakness: Darkness (x2)
Resistance: Fighting (-20)
Retreat: 2
T1 Trainer lock on your opponent, nothing more needs to be said.

Time Puzzle – Trainer
Item

You may play 2 Time Puzzle at the same time.

– If you played 1, look at the top 3 cards of your deck and put them back on top of your deck in any order you like.

– If you played 2, choose 2 cards from your discard pile, show them to your opponent, and put them into your hand.

You may play as many Item cards as you like during your turn (before your attack).

Who needs balance or Promo Jirachi when either is useless as you can get 2 any cards you want back into your hand via battle compressor and 2 Time Puzzles, oh and don't forget those Jirachi promos you just bought from target are now going to be useless, HAPPY HOLIDAYS SUCKERS! : D

Burst Balloon – Trainer
Item

Pokemon Tool: Attach a Pokemon Tool to 1 of your Pokemon that doesn’t already have a Pokemon Tool attached to it.

If this card is attached to a Pokemon, at the end of your opponent’s turn, discard this card.

When the Pokemon this card is attached to is damaged by an opponent’s Pokemon’s attack, put 6 damage counters on the attacking Pokemon.

You may play as many Item cards as you like during your turn (before your attack).
Who needs middle fingers when you play these + 4 junk arm in Durant? I mean you're only discarding 4 cards from the attack and making their hand go down to 1 card with your supporter as well as dealing 6 damage when they DARE to attack you.

Delinquent – Trainer
Supporter

Discard a Stadium card in play. If you do, your opponent chooses 3 cards from his or her hand and discards them.

You may play only 1 Supporter card during your turn (before your attack).
Viva la pokefrance and death to balance, 4 parallel city + this in Durant = your opponent having 3 bench and down to 1 card in their hand, whoo!

Espeon-EX – Psychic – HP170
Basic Pokemon

[C] Miracle Shine: Devolve each of your opponent’s evolved Pokemon and put the highest Stage Evolution card on it into your opponent’s hand.

[P][C][C] Psycho Shock: 70 damage. This attack’s damage isn’t affected by any effects on the Defending Pokemon.

When a Pokemon-EX has been Knocked Out, your opponent takes 2 Prize cards.

Weakness: Psychic (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 1
I don't know how someone will break this card, only that they likely will, my guess is something like damage spread via Fortress FLF + GPF and something to deal with EXs to make them regret living. To be fair though this card is not THAT broken, and it's decently balanced, someone will find a use for it and just abuse it somehow.
What do you guys think of the above opinions on the cards getting released? Will Durant be OP? Will it be countered by Trevenant or Future Puzzle?
 
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Empoleon_master said:
I make this thread because I've been playing for 6 years competitively and have NEVER seen a set that releases this many OP cards at once, I've seen bad formats, balanced formats, a combination of the two (BW-Boundaries crossed as there was landorus + lasers and Mewtwo EX, which was expensive to play, or you had the option of paying $360+ for 3 Tropical Beach to play Keldeo Blastoise)...and now we have a set that is releasing some cards that will seemingly make it rock paper Scizors for decks, because if you play anything else it pretty much gets locked out by the main 3 decks.

Here are the cards I am mainly concerned about either together or seperately ruining the format.

Kricketot – Grass – HP60
Basic Pokemon

[G] Bug’s Sense: Search your deck for 3 [G] Pokemon, show them to your opponent, then put them into your hand. Shuffle your deck afterward.

Weakness: Fire (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 1

That is a maybe for Durant decks if they do not run pure level and repeat balls.

Durant – Grass – HP70
Basic Pokemon

[G] Mountain Gnaw: 10 damage. Discard the top card of your opponent’s deck.

[G][C] Grind Down: If this Pokemon has any damage counters on it, discard the top 4 cards of your opponent’s deck.

Weakness: Fire (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 1
Use Xerneas XY + Team Magma's secret base and you get easy energy and damage onto Durant + future set up potential.

We had a Durant before that could discard up to 4 cards. It was a pain, but you could deal with it. This one needs two energies compared to that one's one. Start KOing them your first turn, which is totally doable, and you have no issues.

Garbodor – Psychic – HP100
Stage 1 – Evolves from Trubbish

Ability: Garbotoxin
If this Pokemon has a Pokemon Tool card attached to it, each Pokemon in play, in each player’s hand, and in each player’s discard pile has no Abilities (except Garbotoxin).

[P][C][C][C] Panic Bomb: 60 damage. Your opponent’s Active Pokemon is now Poisoned and Confused/

Weakness: Psychic (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 3
We all know someone will figure out a way to abuse this in this format of "who needs balance?" I believe it + Xerneas/Durant will basically be like throwing what Garbodor is made out of and calling it "a game of skill" at this point.

We've had Garbodor already too. Most decks run Xerosic, this'll just make it every deck.

Phantump – Psychic – HP50
Basic Pokemon

[C] Ascension: Search your deck for a card that evolves from Phantump and put it onto Phantump. (This counts as evolving Phantump.) Shuffle your deck afterward.

Weakness: Darkness (x2)
Resistance: Fighting (-20)
Retreat: 2
T1 Trainer lock on your opponent, nothing more needs to be said.

Turn 2 trainer lock. If it's the first turn, you're not attacking, you're not evolving. If you go second, your opponent has already had a turn of items. Not much different from Toads or Wallying another Phantump.


Time Puzzle – Trainer
Item

You may play 2 Time Puzzle at the same time.

– If you played 1, look at the top 3 cards of your deck and put them back on top of your deck in any order you like.

– If you played 2, choose 2 cards from your discard pile, show them to your opponent, and put them into your hand.

You may play as many Item cards as you like during your turn (before your attack).

Who needs balance or Promo Jirachi when either is useless as you can get 2 any cards you want back into your hand via battle compressor and 2 Time Puzzles, oh and don't forget those Jirachi promos you just bought from target are now going to be useless, HAPPY HOLIDAYS SUCKERS! : D

Jirachi useless? Lolno. For this card, you're either running 0 or 4, there's no in-between here. You can get a maximum of two DCEs back out. And it requires you to have two of them in your hand. What'cha gonna do? Hold on to that Sycamore and keep the bad hand so you don't lose your Time Puzzle?

Burst Balloon – Trainer
Item

Pokemon Tool: Attach a Pokemon Tool to 1 of your Pokemon that doesn’t already have a Pokemon Tool attached to it.

If this card is attached to a Pokemon, at the end of your opponent’s turn, discard this card.

When the Pokemon this card is attached to is damaged by an opponent’s Pokemon’s attack, put 6 damage counters on the attacking Pokemon.

You may play as many Item cards as you like during your turn (before your attack).
Who needs middle fingers when you play these + 4 junk arm in Durant? I mean you're only discarding 4 cards from the attack and making their hand go down to 1 card with your supporter as well as dealing 6 damage when they DARE to attack you.

Durant is very likely using it's 4 mill attack, so it's not doing any damage; therefore, it'd take three attacks to KO any EX, four for any Mega. Big deal.

Delinquent – Trainer
Supporter

Discard a Stadium card in play. If you do, your opponent chooses 3 cards from his or her hand and discards them.

You may play only 1 Supporter card during your turn (before your attack).
Viva la pokefrance and death to balance, 4 parallel city + this in Durant = your opponent having 3 bench and down to 1 card in their hand, whoo!

"Discard three you say? I'll just hold on to this here Sycamore.. Or better yet, let's discard this Gallade and keep the Maxie's!"

Espeon-EX – Psychic – HP170
Basic Pokemon

[C] Miracle Shine: Devolve each of your opponent’s evolved Pokemon and put the highest Stage Evolution card on it into your opponent’s hand.

[P][C][C] Psycho Shock: 70 damage. This attack’s damage isn’t affected by any effects on the Defending Pokemon.

When a Pokemon-EX has been Knocked Out, your opponent takes 2 Prize cards.

Weakness: Psychic (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 1
I don't know how someone will break this card, only that they likely will, my guess is something like damage spread via Fortress FLF + GPF and something to deal with EXs to make them regret living. To be fair though this card is not THAT broken, and it's decently balanced, someone will find a use for it and just abuse it somehow.

Forretress + M. Gallade EX + Espeon. It's a pain, and can hold back Megas when paired with Megaphone, but that'd require it actually seeing some play. Bet you've never seen anything at any tournament that has the Ancient Origins Claydol, have you?
What do you guys think of the above opinions on the cards getting released? Will Durant be OP? Will it be countered by Trevenant or Future Puzzle?
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Replies in bold under the statements.
 
Honestly? No. This won't be amazing.
  • Kricketot: Call for family has never been good, except in some exceptions. A decent card, but a normal engine would work better.
  • Durant: The second attachment kills Durant. Lysandre, VS Seeker, and Bats all crush it. Don't forget toad.
  • Garbodor: A reprint. Will hurt some decks but a nice balancing for Shaymin and other abilities. I love garbodor, but those feelings aren't shared by many.
  • Phantump: Trevanent/ Wally is a MUCH better combo. Are you unaware of it?
  • Time Puzzle: A good card, but ultimately hard to justify the 4 spaces for.
  • Balloon Burst: A strong rock guard, but lysandre and Xerosic/ VS Seeker combos kill it. Not to mention better tools and just waiting for a turn.
  • Delinquent: Better disruption supporters. Also, you are assuming they have 4 cards in hand. They can just thin their hand. Imagine helping Megaman.
  • Espeon-EX: There are better EXs to play for one. Also, I think you misread it. It's only your opponent's pokemon. It's decent, but really not enough to warrant it's own deck.
Those are some of the reasons I FEEL that these cards aren't OverPowered by any means. They're decent at best. What do you mean by competitively? Because I feel that calling potenially good cards OP isn't something a experienced player would say. If you have played for 6 years, you would have experienced Sabledonk or some of the truly amazing donk decks, not to mention Level X's, which were pretty amazing.
 
Empoleon_master said:
I make this thread because I've been playing for 6 years competitively and have NEVER seen a set that releases this many OP cards at once, I've seen bad formats, balanced formats, a combination of the two (BW-Boundaries crossed as there was landorus + lasers and Mewtwo EX, which was expensive to play, or you had the option of paying $360+ for 3 Tropical Beach to play Keldeo Blastoise)...and now we have a set that is releasing some cards that will seemingly make it rock paper Scizors for decks, because if you play anything else it pretty much gets locked out by the main 3 decks.
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I don't think I've ever seen a properly balanced format and I've been here for nearly the whole thing. XD Some are much better than others but I fear the best past formats were in part "balanced" because our information infrastructure was still lacking back then. For sure the game began horribly broken...
...originally all Trainers were functionally "Items" (though that term would not be used for them until Black & White) and the original Base Set included Computer Search (not an Ace Spec), Bill (Drew 2 cards; later re-released as a Supporter to nerf it), Energy Removal (Crushing Hammer without the flip), Gust of Wind (Lysandre as an Item), Item Finder (Dowsing Machine if it were not an Ace Spec), Professor Oak (Professor Juniper/Scyamore but again, as an Item card), Super Energy Removal (no analog; it required you discard an Energy card attached to one of your Pokémon to select an opposing Pokémon and discards two Energy cards from it). There is of course more, but I've prattled on about it enough for those that didn't know about it at all.

I do think this set is going to be a problem, hence my nickname for it being "Rage of the Broken Otaku" (you can substitute "fanboy" or "fangirl" or what have you if you think it is just about ego). I will address some of your specific concerns because right now there is only one card I'm really worried about.

  • Kricketot can get any three Grass-Types but they go to hand and the "no attacking first turn" rule doesn't seem to be going away, while hand disruption (Judge, soon Deliquent) is making a comeback (and of course Expanded will have N until at least the next rotation). So while you could grab an entire Grass-Type Stage 2 line, your opponent takes a Prize and you need Forest of Giant Plants to instantly play it next turn if your hand survives unmolested. These kinds of attacks were once great, but that was back in the early Nintendo era.
  • Durant could be a problem, but specifically because it is a deck specific option in a format where we've been conditioned to rip through our decks and haven't gotten adequate tools to shift to a "Fast or (relatively) slow" metagame, coupled with several abusively strong cards that naturally combo with Durant. I am thinking mostly of the stuff that worked with Durant (NVI): Crushing Hammer, Enhanced Hammer, N, etc. Of course not all of this is Standard but if you're running a discard deck Ace Trainer should actually be a better N. Like so many of these, we may end up with a fragile balance just because things are so fast that while it makes many competitive decks more vulnerable to decking out, it also means more attackers that can OHKO the ant even with just one Energy.
  • Garbodor will be annoying, but mostly just like it is in Expanded. The main problem(s) will be deck space being so tight. There are enough problem Tools/Special Energy cards floating around that we ought to be running Xerosic already but we aren't because there is just no room. Same for Enhanced Hammer and Startling Megaphone. Once again though I don't like it, the "balancing" force may be that there are too many fast decks that don't rely heavily on Abilities so Garbodor will be dead-ish weight too often.
  • Phantump can't attack T1, only T2, so unless you go first and use Wally your opponent still gets one turn of Items. It makes Trevenant (XY) better, but it only will "break" it if there is so much else going on for this ghostly tree that it just needed a small "bump". Even then it would make more sense to just give credit to Trevenant (XY) and/or Trevenant BREAK if the latter proves useful.
  • Time Puzzle should be a problem. Be afraid. Also be aware that despite it needing two copies to be used, the only amount that won't see play is running one copy. Some decks will run two and just try to save it for a power play, some will run three because the third is a "spare" and some will go for to secure one power play and hope for a second. It won't make the new Jirachi useless, but it will diminish it. How much is uncertain: could be marginal could be major.
  • Burst Balloon might have its uses, but despite seeming so great at a glance it mostly just makes your opponent pay for attacking what it is equipped to once. Let that sink in: if you use it on your main attacker and your opponent can Lysandre up a Benched Shaymin-EX (ROS) for an easy two Prizes, they do that and you wasted a Tool. Or if you equip it to something that needed to be attacked, its annoying but decks can deal with it; I mean the damage done could be healed by a Super Potion or Pokémon Center Lady. Plus if it is equipped, your opponent can't use other Tools on that card (barring the obvious exceptions). Durant will not want it; a major part of the old deck was that N would draw you six cards the whole entire game while your opponent kept getting a smaller and smaller hand. In Standard that will just be Ace Trainer always getting you six and sticking them with three. It isn't fast enough to justify going for surprise Prizes later, so I don't think one should bother at all when instead you can max out of Energy removing tricks and the like instead.
  • Delinquent could be nasty, but as your example indicates it will probably be in specific decks... or as others have suggested, as a nasty surprise when you catch your opponent in a bad place (like with a three card hand). Other control decks might consider it as well. @ImmortalDarkrai Yes, please discard three cards and save back Professor Sycamore to use to thin your deck by seven cards when facing me if I use Durant in a mill deck. ;) Four discarded by Durant attacking plus draw for the turn plus minimum of seven drawn with Professor Sycamore... that's 12 cards in one turn. You start the game with 60 (full deck) - 7 (opening hand) - 6 (Prizes) - 1 (opening draw) = 46 cards. Unless you're using an attacker that takes extra Prizes, odds are you deck out before you can win.
  • Espeon-EX does not strike me as being problematic. Its best use is as a TecH attacker in certain decks. Mass devolution was a problem in a few formats, but those were formats built around decks that ran multiple Evolutions which were prone to spamming Rare Candy and with a pace where "Hit for damage, devolve into lower Stage so that damage scores KO" was actually faster than "hit for damage twice".
 
mordacazir said:
Why no fighting spirit belt in here?
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Because I've been ill and sleeping poorly, had (and still have) a CotD to write, a Top 10 cards for 2015 list to create and am desperately trying to grind out the Rewards Ladder even though there just isn't enough time now with the new PTCGO interface. That last one has made me realize how wrong I was about there being enough time before because I was already getting tired of grinding out 10 or so wins per day before the last update made it up to twice as long.

What, it is me: normally I'd have made some monster post with a brief overview of the set by now and what I thought was gonna be most significant. XD Yeah, even though I didn't start the thread. =P
 
Agreed. I have only been around since Plasma Freeze and I have come to a realization that skill does lack in the game. Because Pokemon is making such decimating cards that drives out the skill in playing the game, it makes harder for future young players to want to play. My kiddo literally told me this year that if he had to play seismitoad, or against seismitoad, he did not want to go worlds. He opted to quit. For young minds, who actually love highly played skill games of all types, the game starts becoming boring to the player because the tactics of out playing the player go null. The child quickly realizes that the game does not allow the player out play him, it tries to stop player from playing at all. ---> Pokemon is one of few games I've come across where the mentality is to pose a simple question -- How do I stop the opponent from playing. Not out play him, but simply stop him from playing. No other game I know is like that, not even sports. Honestly, if a football coach calls on you to stop a player from playing that code is to hurt him for good. Similarity, pokemon corp. embraces that strategy. It's considered unsportsmanlike.

Uhg: Keep calm and Pokemon on.
 
This post from OP is hugely bias and pretty off putting to read at all. Without have played most of the cards he seems to know how this will be the end of the pokemon TCG as we know it.
Can people just take some ice to their sphincter and cool it until we see the cards in action before crying wolf?
Or at least lay out their concerns in a normal fashion without making it sound like they are doomsayers?

Edit: I just need to point out about Delinquent as it seems to be the cards people cry about the most, put a Primal Clash Ninetales (Barrier Shrine) in you deck, and the Delinquent becomes 100% useless as your opponent can't play stadiums. Leaving them with 8 dead cards in their deck.
Not to mention that Giratina-Ex counters after the first hit.
 
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Empoleon_master said:
I make this thread because I've been playing for 6 years competitively and have NEVER seen a set that releases this many OP cards at once
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If you've been playing that long, surely you know that it's remarkably hard to predict how much of an impact a card will have prior to release. Sometimes, it takes *ages* for a card to be fully assessed. People thought that Rayquaza and Primal Groudon would break the format. People dismissed Night March as a gimmick. Donphan was a gimmick or "just plain bad" until Dylan Bryan re-invented it. Trump Card got a lot of "meh" responses when it was first revealed. I am sure there is a long, long list of similar examples.
 
No. Phantom Forces through balance out of the window with NM cards being printed. I don't see this deck making certain archetypes/ideas more powerful just evening things out. Mill/hand control decks seem to be getting more support but that's because so far all decks have been either Power decks or Lock decks.

Water is also receiving more support with Manaphy and Palkia.

All the hyped cards will probably go down the drain. M Rayquaza is an example. TPCi doesn't have the balls to make good decks aside from the ones that n00bs can pick up and play immediately such as NM or Archie's/Maxie's. Everything else is trash because people find counters to the already "sucky" cards. TPCi is always afraid something will take over the format when that's never the case since 95% of cards are garbage and have too much going against them.
 
Stys95 said:
Curious, wouldnt hard charm be better than spirit belt on wailord?
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It depends on the matchup. Against a deck that would need two hits to knock out Wailord, then yes, Hard Charm is better. But against a deck like Vespiquen or Magnezone/Raikou/Pikachu-EX, Spirit Belt is better.
 
Talkingcat over there pretty much said it. Look back at old Phantom Gate threads and read all those posts that say Night March would never amount to anything more than gimmick, and just take it all in. I don't even think PCL knew how crazy NM/Flareon/Vespiquen would be. New cards are released, things don't live up to hype, so on and so forth, hell, I even kind of agree with some of asdjklghty's criticism.

Anyways, the main reason I commented was because some of what OP said was kinda funny just because of the way they said it. "Who needs middle fingers when..." and "vive la France, death to balance" are definitely lines I'm going to use at some point haha.
 
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asdjklghty said:
No. Phantom Forces through balance out of the window with NM cards being printed.
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leluwat. It's 2015 bro, if you still think Night March is "broken" then you might need to start picking new decks. Phantom Forces gave us VS Seeker, Battle Compressor, and many other cards that helped define this format in a good way.


Back onto the subject at hand though, XY9.

Krickotot - Pretty nice card, but not broken in any way. Now that Judge is here, hands are never safe. So once you attack they have a full turn to try and disrupt your hand, and even if they can't, it's no where near the end of the world. I'm glad grass is getting some more support, right now it's on the edge of being good and this card might give it a bit more push.

Durant - Drop a rainbow energy on it and any other form of energy and boom, 4 card mill. Great option for people who wanna make mill decks, but again, I can't see this being "broken". With the minimum of 1 damage counter on Durant for his second attack, he only has 60 HP left (100 if they choose to go for the Spirit Belt or whatever it's called). So the big flaw is obviously Durant being frail. Maybe someone could pair Durant with Vileplume to try and slow down the opponent from setting up to get knock outs.

Garbodor - I'm extremely upset this card is back, not because it's broken, but more because Pokemon can't seem to let go of Black and White (and now that expanded is supported, that seems very very silly). Maybe Startling Megaphone will be a staple card again because of it.

Phantump - This is a good thing. As soon as Jirachi EX rotated out, Trevenant decks became near useless because of the now increased dedication you have to give to your deck just to hit T1 Wally. In my opinion, Trevenant is the most balanced form of Item Lock. If you're able to Lysandre or Hex Maniac, then boom, you can use Items again. This is also nice because if they want to use this attack T1, they'd have to go second, still giving you a chance to unload your Items while you can.

Time Puzzle - I don't know yet. I don't think anyone will really know yet until it starts being tested. For decks like Night March, Vespiquen, Toad, and Giratina this is a possible god send. The new Jirachi promo is giving these guys a really tough time, and we can already see this from City Tournaments. I won every single Giratina EX match up I went against while playing Megaman, souly because of my 1 of Jirachi. In one game I was actually able to win without taking a single prize. Once my opponent was out of Double Dragon Energy, he folded. I think this might give a bit of kick back into the decks when going against Jirachi, which right now seems to 100% wall them. It also lets Jirachi keep his usefulness though, because he still gets the turn of no damage, but now it won't be quite as powerful (to the point where I can keep Jirachi active and Lysandre anything with a special energy up).

Delinquent - I've had so many conversations about this card already with friends that I'm kinda burnt out on it. Most of us came to the agreement that yes, it's a pretty good card and has the chance of completely destroying your hand. There's also the chance you have Sycamore in your hand (or VS Seeker, or Shaymin EX, or Birch, ect.) and just discard everything besides that and then get a fresh hand, leaving your opponent to have wasted his Supporter of the turn on basically giving you a new 7 cards. There's also some match ups that will go as far as to LOVE this card. Say Vespiquen and Night March for example. Oh, I have to discard 3 cards from my hand? Good thing I left these Pokemon in my hand to now discard.


Just because a set comes out with some good cards doesn't mean you need to instantly look at them and think "holy cow my metaaaa, it's gonna get brokennnnn, that card is totally gonna get banneedddd". Calm the hell down guys, trying to predict the metagame to a T before the cards even come out is ridiculous. Everyone thought Mega Ray was going to be broken, and then Mega Manectric peaked it's head. Nearly no one thought Lysandre's Trump Card was an issue, then people realized Shaymin EX and Toad could just stall forever with it. Just calm down and focus on the current metagame, not the only coming out in February.
 
DevinTheWelf said:
leluwat. It's 2015 bro, if you still think Night March is "broken" then you might need to start picking new decks. Phantom Forces gave us VS Seeker, Battle Compressor, and many other cards that helped define this format in a good way.
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Please don't change what I said to make it easier to knock down. I never said PHF itself was bad but the NM cards printed in the set is what tipped the balance in skill and subsequently, balance.

Gotta love the "play better" thing because I never said or implied I'm salty at it because I keep losing. In fact, today I beat my brother's NM/Vespiquen hybrid with my updated VirGen deck haha. As a control player, I tend to not find the matchup as difficult as others because my main decks are full of denial cards.

The whole cause of skil-less decks isn't EXs. It's mindless decks that need no skill to hit 160+ damage T1. Which current deck does that besides sucky M Ray which is countered so easily because TPCi was so scared it would break the format? NM (sometimes Vespiquen) of course.
One could make the argument this wouldn't happen if Battle Compressor and Acro Bike weren't printed. Wrong. You're not addressing the core and the reason, just trying to scratch the surface of how n00bs can win matches against more skilled players.

And because of this, I don't like how PHF, one of the best sets printed in the history of the game ever, had to make cards that shouldn't have existed in the first place. The cards you mentioned are so useful and I never can go back to playing the old school way just because the staples introduced in PHF should be reprinted forever and consistently. But regardless, I hate how every deck now has to take into account, "Am I going to face NM?" when making decks and playing in tournaments or league. That's bugging me and many other people as well. Without sucky Joltik, Pumpkaboo or Lampent, the game would be so much more enjoyable and fun.
 
asdjklghty said:
But regardless, I hate how every deck now has to take into account, "Am I going to face NM?" when making decks and playing in tournaments or league. That's bugging me and many other people as well. Without sucky Joltik, Pumpkaboo or Lampent, the game would be so much more enjoyable and fun.
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Night March is probably the last deck I'd even think of for making this game less fun. I tend to think lock decks usually do that the best. It may seem unfair that a 30 HP bug can hit for such high numbers, but that's the thing, it's a 30 HP bug. And the decks only other attacker needs to have its stadium or 2 energy attachments to hit for kills, which is easy to disrupt now that we have powerful counter Stadiums like Parallel City and hand disruption/minimization like Judge. I think it's a bit extreme to say the deck ruins the fun of the game, when other decks do it much better.
 
Predicting the State of the Meta of XY9, By Lanstar.

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Well, I can't exactly see the future here very well, but I do see a case that, while not "broken," the Metagame could become rather unhealthy. By unhealthy, I mean that the newest cards here could prevent true innovation of strategies from being viable in the expense of older, well seasoned strategies with new cards to add in. Some cards to stay cautious of, causing this issue:

-Fighting Spirit Belt:

Basics in general have already been incredibly powerful in this format, whether it be Lucario-EX, Seismitoed-EX, Giratina-EX, Raikou, Entei AT, Regice, Wobbuffet, Pumpkaboo, etc. Now, add +40 HP and +10 Damage for them exclusively to use. Don't you all think that this just reinforces the same old basic pokemon attacking strategy that has repeatedly dominated decks?

-Max Elixir:

Adding to the prominence of heavy attacking basics, we have this card, which is also designed mostly for them, and can further accelerate their attacks quicker. Where's the help for stage one and two's to match this acceleration for basics?

-Garbodor:

Abilities have been one of the big benefits of using many stage one and two Pokemon. Now you have a card coming back to cause more weariness to using abilities without countering Garbotoxin. At least Hex Maniac was a temporary measure to deal with...

-Delinquent:

Some of my favorite strategies I like involve walling out opponents and slowly developing my playing field and my hand, as opposed to just recklessly throwing away my hands to power up speedy strategies Night March, Bee Revenge or Emerald Break. This card, however, ruins many benchwarming and developing stategies, and could potentially enforce a situation like when N was played everywhere: Why bother trying to develop this awesome combination in your hand when someone will simply cut your hand off in nearly every game you play? Worse, you must Discard cards from your hand, and you must make sure you have 4 cards as well before your turn ends to avoid ending up with a dry hand as well. From this, hand management, which is so important for many decks to function, like evolution-based ones, could go out the window if this card gets played a lot.

From these 4 cards alone added, I see a meta where mainly low maintenance, quick moving basics are at the forefront, and the challenge of performing out evolution-based tactics, aside from Megas, become harder to do. This is just my prediction of the new meta. It my happen, it may not. But it doesn't sound very fun to me...
 
1) Predicting how the game will unfold is a valuable skill in any TCG; it is not a mythic ability though finding those who can do so reliably, explain their reasoning and feel like sharing in the first place can make it seem as such.

2) Every set we get a plethora of predictions; to really tell who is doing skilled analysis versus lucky guesses or something in between requires isolating that person's predictions and paying attention for more or less a card's entire period legal for Standard and Expanded play and doing so until you have a significant sampling size. If you just try it once you'll have lucky guesses, unlucky guesses, skilled analysis, flawed analysis, etc. but those can happen once and never again. ;)

3) "Balance" does not mean the same thing to everyone; it is important to know what each person means by it, which can be tricky because usually a person finds his or her own definition to be the most logical and natural. =P For the record I am not suggesting that we all have our own equally correct definitions or that it is a matter of unfounded opinions: one can take time to test one's personal preferences against logic and reason to see how well it stands up.

Experience tells me I should stop with that, at least for now, instead of then using this to go into my more personal thoughts on recent topics in this discussion. ;)
 
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