XY Horde encounters

[Mitja]

So X&Y will include a new form of wild battles, hordes.

What do you guys think is the point of these?

I think that depending on whether they will be a common thing (at certain places?), or something very rare in general, is a big factor into whether they are an important mechanic or a gimmick.


Masuda said at the E3 roundtable that the point was to add "balance" to the adventure, and prevent overleveling....but I don't get it.

Cause, as I see it at the moment, encountering a horde is either
-a "you're screwed" moment (especially if my assumption is correct that it will be harder to flee)
-an awesome exp source (and that sounds like the opposite of what they intended, if your leveling speed essentially multiplies by 5 when you rush through hordes with earthquakes)
depending on whether you are prepared or not. But that can be summed up with one question: "Do you have a multi-target move?" Its the only thing that decides whether its making things tough or cakewalk, which sounds pretty imbalanced to me.



Which brings me to the next issue.
Multi-target moves are not that common... sure we've seen a few more added, but that won't be enough.
Could it be that they will reclassify many one-target moves to hit more targets for this?
Perhaps just 2 or 3, so that the horde-killer moves like RockSlide and Discharge remain the "5 ko at once" moves?



The horror:

Well, actually, thinking about it.. the real annoying ones would be 5 Pokemon with Sturdy and self-destructive tendencies

 

[Frezgle]

I like the idea. I doubt it'll be a common occurrence; I think it'll be more like some RPGs that have that one enemy in that one area that's rare, and hard to kill, but worth a lot of exp.
And it might be just me, but the horde Pokemon look like they're low-leveled compared to the player's Pokemon in two of those screenshots (Level 14 vs level 25, and level 8 vs whatever level Helioptile is at. I'm guessing something a good bit higher than 8, since Discharge isn't typically a move you find early on anything due to its power). So your team probably won't be destroyed.

What I'm wondering the most is how you're supposed to catch anything from the horde. Reduce them down to one like in wild double battles? Or can we catch more than one now?

 

[steffenka]

What I'm wondering the most is how you're supposed to catch anything from the horde. Reduce them down to one like in wild double battles? Or can we catch more than one now?

That's exactly what I thought as well, I think it might be the same as double battles but I'm not too sure. I'm pretty sure that they are gonna be catchable

 

[Flys Gone 2071]

I guess that there would be some special grasses/places where the hordes appear (similar to that of double grass).

Earthquake + Rock Slide or Discharge + Blizzard = Destroys all hordes.

 

[don()shinobi]

Well, actually, thinking about it.. the real annoying ones would be 5 Pokemon with Sturdy and self-destructive tendencies

STOP
Don't give them ideas!

 

[Luna_Cat16]

The horde encounters might happen more often if you stay in an area, perhaps? They said they wanted to keep players from grinding their way through, so perhaps the longer you spend in that route or cave section the more likely it is for a horde encounter. Then again, considering how you can just walk out of the route to reset the rate, that might not work.

So they'll probably just get more frequent the farther you go on in the game? Or perhaps to specific areas, like the shaking grass in BW, but they'd be more frequent and you could accidentally run into them if you weren't paying attention.

The levels do seem to be lower than that of your Pokemon, but if you don't have a group attack that's like five turns of ohkoes while they're able to attack you five or so times in a row. I could see it getting annoying very quickly, especially since they'll pretty much just drain your PP if they can't drain your HP.

 

[AlexanderTheAwesome]

Hmmm.... Level 25 vs 5 lv 14's. Or level 25 vs a level 70 Super Tauros.

Spoiler

On a serious note i don't think it will be that difficult. OHKO one at a time and I'm just going to throw this out there - I don't think they will let every Pokemon attack. if they did it would pretty much be an auto-loss. They may be a lower level, but 5 attacks from level 14's is bad in fact here is some math to prove it

Spoiler

Ok since stats for Fenniken haven't been revealed were using Charmander as a base. We're using a bold nature for all Pokemon in the equation (Charmander has higher defense and Tauros has lower attack) and Tackle is the attack (base power of 50 I'm pretty sure) for random number we will use 85 for the least and 100 for the most. All Pokemon have 0 EV's AND 0 IV's (this is unrealistic for charmander since he is level 28, but it should be okay for the test)

Damage = ((((2 * Level / 5 + 2) * AttackStat * AttackPower / DefenseStat) / 50) + 2) * STAB * Weakness/Resistance * RandomNumber / 100

Damage = ((((2 * (14/5) +2) * 100 * 50/43))/50)+2) * 1.5 * 1 * 96/100
Damage = 29.511 at most or 25.08 at least

That means Poor little Charmander got two shotted(granted everyone had minimum stats and we're assuming there have been no stat reducing/raising moves used). If you put in EV's and IV's thats probably a 4 shot, but hey that's A LOT!!! Assuming every Pokemon attacked at once, you are screwed. So i think that horde battles will go like this.....

*Horde battle starts*
Your Pokemon attacks Pokemon of choice (assuming he is faster)
Opposing Pokemon number one attacks
Your Pokemon attacks Pokemon of choice
Opposing Pokemon number 2 attacks
And so on and so forth....

If I didn't do my math correctyl please tell me so I can fix it
credit to serebii for the equation

EDIT: I used a level 28 Charmander instead of a level 25 so thats even worse for our poor little guy.

 

[CMP]

I watched the footage once or twice when it was released, so I'm by no means an expert (and therefore may have missed if it said any/all of them could attack), but I would assume that only a few of them are able to do so at any given time. The rest (the ones further back) would probably wait until you KO'd the ones leading the pack until they moved up.

If the point really was to prevent overleveling and grinding...well, that's obnoxious. That's how I've played the game since RBY.

 

[Their Goominess]

What I'm wondering the most is how you're supposed to catch anything from the horde. Reduce them down to one like in wild double battles? Or can we catch more than one now?

That's exactly what I thought as well, I think it might be the same as double battles but I'm not too sure. I'm pretty sure that they are gonna be catchable

One thought I had for this would be that you'd throw a Pokeball into the horde, but the Pokemon caught is random.
Eg in a horde there could be an Axew, 2 Geodude and 2 Onix. We throw the ball, hoping to get Axew, but instead we get Geodude.

I'm also wondering how many different species in a horde we can find.
So far we've seen them as all the same species, with the exception of the Tauros and Miltank horde. Theoretically, we could see 4 or 5 different species Pokemon in a horde. However, I'm thinking there's most likely gonna be 2 species in a horde, 3 max.

 

[steffenka]

That's exactly what I thought as well, I think it might be the same as double battles but I'm not too sure. I'm pretty sure that they are gonna be catchable

One thought I had for this would be that you'd throw a Pokeball into the horde, but the Pokemon caught is random.
Eg in a horde there could be an Axew, 2 Geodude and 2 Onix. We throw the ball, hoping to get Axew, but instead we get Geodude.

I'm also wondering how many different species in a horde we can find.
So far we've seen them as all the same species, with the exception of the Tauros and Miltank horde. Theoretically, we could see 4 or 5 different species Pokemon in a horde. However, I'm thinking there's most likely gonna be 2 species in a horde, 3 max.

That's kinda cool, but then you would have to throw at least 5 Pokeballs to catch the one you want.

I too think that it's max 3 species of Pokemon you can fight in a horde.

 

[Bashamo]

They said at E3 that: horde battles are suppose to prevent trainers from finding a powerful pokemon early on in the game and breeze through the game with it.

Notice how all the horde pokemon are significantly low level, I imagine the higher level the first pokemon in your party slot is; the more chance a horde encounter will happen.

I'm guessing they may have changed the wild pokemon's average levels again. We might see stuff like lv.30s as early as 4th gym.

 

[benehime]

I remember seeing a horde of tauros and one miltank that means several things:

1. Miltank might be in the game( hopefully)
2.its Whitney's miltank x5( rollout, attract, milk drink times 5)
3. You can meet a horde of strong pokemon (maybe)
4.There will be more hit all moves

It is going to be great for the challenge (except the photo above zubats again, dark cave all over again) I can't wait!!

 

[Drokas]

Horde Battles are a nice feature but I just don't understand why they only let you use one Pokémon while the rest of them are slacking inside their Pokéballs! I mean, if you find two Pokémon in Dark Grass you'll also send out two Pokémon. Maybe it's something like being ambushed so you don't have time to send out more.
I wonder if you'll even me able to switch between Pokémon... if it's the same reason above, probably not.

 

[benehime]

Horde Battles are a nice feature but I just don't understand why they only let you use one Pokémon while the rest of them are slacking inside their Pokéballs! I mean, if you find two Pokémon in Dark Grass you'll also send out two Pokémon. Maybe it's something like being ambushed so you don't have time to send out more.
I wonder if you'll even me able to switch between Pokémon... if it's the same reason above, probably not.

They made it that way, so it would be harder to breeze through the game, like on the show a swarm of beedrill an ash uses only pikachu(beedrill pikachu thing only my opinion) or they made it for a challenge

 

[Gardy]

The way I think they will attack.

Battle Intiates.

You send out your Pokemon.

Chose your move.

Fastest goes first.

You go.

Game then randomly chooses one of the remaining Pokemon to go, they could be slower or faster.

You go again.

Repeat.

 

[Drokas]

Horde Battles are a nice feature but I just don't understand why they only let you use one Pokémon while the rest of them are slacking inside their Pokéballs! I mean, if you find two Pokémon in Dark Grass you'll also send out two Pokémon. Maybe it's something like being ambushed so you don't have time to send out more.
I wonder if you'll even me able to switch between Pokémon... if it's the same reason above, probably not.

They made it that way, so it would be harder to breeze through the game, like on the show a swarm of beedrill an ash uses only pikachu(beedrill pikachu thing only my opinion) or they made it for a challenge

I'm aware of that but it just doesn't make sense in the real world. If you're being attacked by five "monsters" (not with a negative connotation) it would make sense for you to give everything you got (unless you truly like being challenged). But Pokémon isn't the most logical franchise so it's okay, I'm overthinking when I shouldn't. ^^' It's mainly for gameplay.
I still like it and can't wait to try it out! ♥

 

[Bashamo]

It'd be easier to examine the logic behind 1vs.5 fights once we know the mechanics behind horde encounters.

For now I see them as similar to the anime encounters with the spearow and the grimer (if you remember those two episodes), 1 pokemon alone is strong enough to take on the 5 weaklings, so there's no point in overkill.

 

[Whitefire]

This hoard thing sounds like it would be great for EV training, especially if they have hoard battles in higher-level areas [ie second stages appearing and whatnot]. Macho Brace or the other items, too.

But still, this +Lucky Egg would give some decent EXP even if half-level to your mon.

 

[Ghost King]

I like the idea. I doubt it'll be a common occurrence; I think it'll be more like some RPGs that have that one enemy in that one area that's rare, and hard to kill, but worth a lot of exp.
And it might be just me, but the horde Pokemon look like they're low-leveled compared to the player's Pokemon in two of those screenshots (Level 14 vs level 25, and level 8 vs whatever level Helioptile is at. I'm guessing something a good bit higher than 8, since Discharge isn't typically a move you find early on anything due to its power). So your team probably won't be destroyed.

It never said they would be low lvls. Maybe there could be a horde of lvl.60 lapras(maybe laprases) you encounter. We will just have to wait to find out more

 

[Bogleech]

It adds a lot of realism, since there's no reason wild pokemon would all attack one-on-one either.