“Wild Force” and “Cyber Judge” Sets Officially Revealed, Feature Return of ACE SPEC Cards!

[hickwarrior]

It just feels useless to repeat the same mantra over and over again. The format is centered around a few extremely broken cards that give decks instant access to every resource (or a collection of these cards, such is the case with Miriadon). Their plans are extremely similar, which is to get their set-up and power up their beatstick of choice. Ironically, since these decks are so ridiculously fast and consistent, whiffing even a piece of your set-up results in a complete one-sided wipeout, which happened in multiple finals of high-profile tournaments.

I don't think it's specifically the "fault" of small Gardevoir, but rather its toxic interaction with Gardevoir ex giving you infinite free energy. The point still stands - to be a successful single-prizer, you need to feature some kind of gimmick or glasscannon free attacks. The design space couldn't be any smaller without eliminating that 90% of printed cards from the game completely.
I don't consider anything that happens in the current format "skillful", especially when it doesn't even interact with the other player and is limited to deciding how to solitaire your broken engine cards to get the result you need.

I don't think rotation will help that any. We would still have cards like Hisuian Basculin, Miraidon ex especially, and bombirdier Ex.

They'll probably have to give us more of those same stage 2 glass Cannon cards to even hope to get close to ex Pokémon in terms of damage potential. Maybe the design space is shut down now, but I'm not creative enough to think of a solution to that problem of big, basic pokémon still being as dominant as ever.

At least from what I understand. I have yet to get a lot more experience under my belt to understand the nuance there, or whatever the card game is lacking to control the 2 prizers a little better.

 

[LightYearLiam]

I don't consider anything that happens in the current format "skillful", especially when it doesn't even interact with the other player and is limited to deciding how to solitaire your broken engine cards to get the result you need.

For the most part, I think I just have to agree to disagree with your outlook on the TCG, since it seems you just want specific things that I don't consider to be essential, but this comment is so insane I don't even know how to respond to it. You don't think the current format takes any skill? You think it's just a coincidence that top players tend to get top results? I assume that's not really what you mean, but then, what do you mean? Not interacting directly with the other player doesn't even have to do with if it's skillful or not. It sounds like you have a weird definition of the word skillful.

 

[LightYearLiam]

They'll probably have to give us more of those same stage 2 glass Cannon cards to even hope to get close to ex Pokémon in terms of damage potential. Maybe the design space is shut down now, but I'm not creative enough to think of a solution to that problem of big, basic pokémon still being as dominant as ever.

Do you even play the current TCG? We are not in a "big basic" format, especially compared to many other formats. A few decks, such as Miraidon and Roaring Moon (which isn't even that good a deck), are big basic based, but most are not. Mew VMAX: not a big basic. Charizard ex: not a big basic. Most cards in Gardevoir except Zacian V (which isn't used in every game): not big basics. Snorlax: not a big basic. I could go on...

 

[hickwarrior]

Do you even play the current TCG? We are not in a "big basic" format. A few decks, such as Miraidon and Roaring Moon (which isn't even that good a deck), are big basic based, but most are not. Mew VMAX: not a big basic. Charizard ex: not a big basic. Most cards in Gardevoir except Zacian V (which isn't used in every game): not big basics. Snorlax: not a big basic. I could go on...

I can't help but agree there. However, I've been feeling down on playing any such decks, due to knowing that in a locals, someone is running Iron Valiant and fusion mew. It doesn't help that my inexperience makes it hard to figure out what position I have to take to make it harder for my opponent to respond.

It also doesn't help there are so many to- I mean decks I could give a shot. Like Lost Tina.

Possibly focusing on the advice, knowing what my board should look like two or three turns in, might help a lot. At the same time, that feels very matchup dependant.

I'd love to try out competitive play, but feeling so lost on where to start when I know specific concepts already. Not knowing that I know something instinctively makes it harder to know where to focus my effort. If that makes any sense at all.

But maybe sleeping is a good first step.

 

[Yaginku]

For the most part, I think I just have to agree to disagree with your outlook on the TCG, since it seems you just want specific things that I don't consider to be essential, but this comment is so insane I don't even know how to respond to it. You don't think the current format takes any skill? You think it's just a coincidence that top players tend to get top results? I assume that's not really what you mean, but then, what do you mean? Not interacting directly with the other player doesn't even have to do with if it's skillful or not. It sounds like you have a weird definition of the word skillful.

This is an often-repeated argument in the world of any competitive game and it usually disregards that competitive players make an extremely small subset of the total playerbase and, even in that small sample, the amount of players who are willing to chase points, travel to big events and ultimately some sort of finals is even smaller. I have played most of the decks that are "top tier" right now, I've learned a few to a deeper level and I do not consider anything that happens in games that include them to require copious amount of skill. It requires some knowledge, but it's not the same thing.
And yes, I do consider good design that welcomes players of all knowledge levels, opens the design space to as many cards and decks as possible and doesn't rely to the fastest powercreep I have ever seen in a game ever, to be vital to game's quality. The consequences are felt mostly by local game stores, who always had a hard time getting new players into the game, but now find it even harder. I wouldn't as much "agree to disagree", as state that you're simply wrong and leave it at that. This discussion has been had too many times either way.

 

[TheRainmaker]

Any card game format that has high consistency, comeback potential (e.g. you don't automatically have an insurmountable disadvantage depending on who goes first or what deck you face), and resource management requires plenty of skill. Ultimately it is kind of silly to be elitist about skill level in the current format or in this TCG in general though, because no matter how consistently you build there will always be that element of luck that can cause you to brick (and Pokemon has an extra luck factor with prize cards), you can run into good/bad match-ups depending on your luck (and Pokemon has a weakness mechanic to create more skewed match-up situations), and unlike some other games Pokemon does not have a side deck so tech options (such as Drapion V or Minior) hurt your consistency anytime you're not in a relevant match-up... and all of this has always been true for most if not all of this TCG's life. Skill level is at its highest during tier 0 formats where everyone is playing the same deck (or anti-meta decks that don't have to worry about variety as much) resulting in very predictable match-ups, but those formats are often considered the most boring.

Ultimately I think it's less about the current state of the game lacking skill and more about your preference for the speed/playstyle of the format.

 

[creg22]

Please have the beast paradox trio represented as dragons with 2 different energy costs, please don't give miraidon, charizard, and baxcalibur more basic attackers to abuse, those decks don't need anymore help.
Please let iron leaves be a decent grass type, we've been struggling for years.

 

[Diego Lima]

I was hoping they would've learned their lesson the first time around and fixed the obvious design flaws with the Ace Spec cards.

They had a chance to make them more interesting and archetype specific effects instead of just some busted generic ones that every deck would obviously want regardless of what it is. With "item Guzma" that ship has obviously sailed. This also feeds into the other problem, the same one Prism Star had, the fact that you can only have one, mixed with the prize mechanic, makes it very swingy, and one of the players having access to the card early in the game while the other one could simply not see the card until the game is basically over is very bad.

So basically, it's the same design problems all over again, but this time they decided it was a good idea to make the cards shockingly pink for some reason, so it's not only bad design, it is hard to look at as well.

 

[Ilexon]

bro i was trying to avoid spoilers for indigo disc :'(

Likewise.. then got jumpscared by the entei paradox in the pack art

 

[LightYearLiam]

The consequences are felt mostly by local game stores, who always had a hard time getting new players into the game, but now find it even harder.

source, please?

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post because it's obvious you think your personal opinions are facts, but this is an actual claim of fact that I think requires some justification.

 

[Ken Truong]

Just a thought:

Prime Catcher + Regidrago VSTAR's/Darkrai VSTAR's VStar Ability... ?

 

[Mimikeon]

Lol. “Powerful” cards: In other words – double rainbow energy for only a stage 2 which could be easily removed with hammers or other possible way and an Item-version of Guzma. “Powerful” would it become, when: 1) the ace-spec energy couldn't be removed the classical way and/or would it be double rainbow without drawback (so for ALL Pokémon, not just stage 2's which aren't played much, at least not, if the stage 2 isn't ex) and 2) the item-Guzma could have another additional effect; e.g. card drawer or sth like that.

How can you be this wrong? Guzman as an item is insane. Hell, an Ace Spec that just said "draw 3 cards" would likely see play.

And yay, another Snorexlax buff...

 

[Yaginku]

source, please?

I run a league and I see the attendance of other leagues in the area. If you want numbers, ask your local leagues.

Ultimately it is kind of silly to be elitist about skill level in the current format or in this TCG in general though, because no matter how consistently you build there will always be that element of luck

I don't really care about "skill level", because it's a completely arbitrary metric, but it is readily apparent that these extremely consistent and quick games result in wild luck results.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post because it's obvious you think your personal opinions are facts

I never wanted to have this discussion in the first place, because I knew it is fruitless from the beginning. Competitive players have a tendency to equate their personal experiences with good design direction. This is not a space for a design lecture that will be ignored anyway.

 

[NotSeen]

You're seriously downselling how potent a guaranteed boss on an item card is

We already had item “boss” previously (known as “Gust of Wind”). “Upgrading” that previous item card (though, it wasn't divided into groups at that time) was actually “down”grade because you could only used it once per turn after that shift (although, you probably used it once per turn even if it was item…). In another words: the only difference bewteen Guzma and this card is the fact, that it doesn't use your “1 supporter per turn” slot. That's why I'm still seeing it as not as powerful as other people.
And btw., even the original Catcher was guaranteed without the coin flip. Only after the alternation it turned absolutely useless. You still could use it, but with the chance that the effect won't ever happen, which means, that not guaranteed card in deck could turn useless. Same goes for coin flipping attacks and generally for everything, where you have to flip. No offense, though, it's just my opinion.

 

[Octowen]

Prime Catcher's extremely nice, especially considering the amount of decks that ran 4 cross-switchers. It's a good candidate for the 'default' Ace Spec card, like how most decks run Radiant Greninja, at least until something busted is revealed (computer search or dowsing machine, for example)

Pretty sure Prime Catcher is the busted Ace Spec. Like you said, Computer Search would probably beat it, but in the current format I think that Prime Catcher has more play than Dowsing Machine. The amount of turns that I wish I could play Boss and Iono, or Boss and Arven, are countless. They had better not reprint Computer Search (knock on wood) and even if they did Prime Catcher could still be better than it in some decks. But you’re definitely right that unless they release four Ace Specs this expansion (like they did for the first expansion in which Ace Specs dropped, and even if there’s another Ace Spec Prime Catcher will probably beat it) then Prime Catcher will definitely be the go-to. We’re back to building 59-card decks, people!

 

[Octowen]

After reading through the shootout between @Yaginku and @LightYearLiam, I can’t help but agree with LightYearLiam. This format is very well balanced, especially considering what last format looked like. Right now, we have a few two-prize, basic, attempt to OHKO or donk decks (Miraidon, Chien-Pao, Iron Valiant, etc.), we have Gardevoir and Lost Box (which also has no one right way to build&play it) as our single-prize-weighted, high-skill options, and we even have control. Plus, Arceus, Lugia, and Giratina VSTAR are still running around here and there. We also have Charizard ex, which is almost a tank deck tbh, and there’s still more decks here I haven’t named that can get top 8.

The bottom line is that I personally believe that this format is fun and varied, but I still respect your opinion, Yaginku, and you and LightYearLiam both seem much more knowledgeable about the TCG than I am.

 

[JaniK]

Pretty sure Prime Catcher is the busted Ace Spec. Like you said, Computer Search would probably beat it, but in the current format I think that Prime Catcher has more play than Dowsing Machine. The amount of turns that I wish I could play Boss and Iono, or Boss and Arven, are countless. They had better not reprint Computer Search (knock on wood) and even if they did Prime Catcher could still be better than it in some decks. But you’re definitely right that unless they release four Ace Specs this expansion (like they did for the first expansion in which Ace Specs dropped, and even if there’s another Ace Spec Prime Catcher will probably beat it) then Prime Catcher will definitely be the go-to. We’re back to building 59-card decks, people!

I’m not surprise to see Computer Search reprint but not gonne be in SV5 set where we get Prime Catcher maybe in later set. until then it’s very hard to get good enough Ace spec which can compete with Prime Catcher. too broken card