(1) Nintendo Follow-Up [9/21]
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
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I agree. it was unnecessary to bring the community into this argument. Remember, Nintendo has no intentions on making us hate them and they feel they're doing this for a good cause so why fight them? I think it'll be best to let Nintendo decide their course of action since they're the ones who do the research. Making a thread like this really serves no beneficial purpose and it only builds resentment so why bother?
K
Kynergy
I sent an email to Nintendo regarding this whole thing, and here is the response I got.
Well, atleast they appreciate all that you guys do...just not enough to allow you to post your images. I also find it funny how they call the images "confidential". How can images from a game release to the public be confidential. This is just a huge waist of Nintendo's time, and definatly makes them look bad. Pokemon has one of the most dedicating fanbases of any game, or anything for that matter. Why go and stomp on our parade when all we are doing is getting hyped up for your game? Ugh...
Well, atleast they appreciate all that you guys do...just not enough to allow you to post your images. I also find it funny how they call the images "confidential". How can images from a game release to the public be confidential. This is just a huge waist of Nintendo's time, and definatly makes them look bad. Pokemon has one of the most dedicating fanbases of any game, or anything for that matter. Why go and stomp on our parade when all we are doing is getting hyped up for your game? Ugh...
From someone who's currently dating a lawyer, I can tell you that Nintendo does own the rights to their characters, including their images. Technically, even fanfic isn't allowed but people overlook it because it's harmless.
If Nintendo sees harm by posting these pictures, then they have the legal right to have you stop using them. And while you might not understand how or why it can harm them, take into consideration the fact that you don't work there and you have MUCH less information regarding what can and what can't harm them. We're merely looking through the window - we're not in the building.
Nintendo has the rights to do what they did. To complain about it is childish. Welcome to the real world.
If Nintendo sees harm by posting these pictures, then they have the legal right to have you stop using them. And while you might not understand how or why it can harm them, take into consideration the fact that you don't work there and you have MUCH less information regarding what can and what can't harm them. We're merely looking through the window - we're not in the building.
Nintendo has the rights to do what they did. To complain about it is childish. Welcome to the real world.
I'm not really mad at Nintendo and I don't think anyone else should be. At least, I'm not mad at them for wanting the images removed. They are their images and they can do as they please with them, whether they have logical reasons or not. I am mad at how they've gone about getting them removed. If certain sites are causing them damage by posting these images, why aren't other sites that are posting the very same images? Why can't they just come out and say exactly what PokéBeach, Serebii, etc. have done wrong? Like WPM said, how can he be expected to avoid making future mistakes when he doesn't know what mistake he's made now? It's very strange how they're being so secretive about the whole thing. Like some others have said once already, it makes you wonder if something bigger's going on that no one but Nintendo knows about.
And WPM, just wanted to say I appreciate all that you do for Pokémon fans. You work hard and care about this site and it really shows. I occasionally go to Serebii and Bulbapedia as well, but PokéBeach is the only site I've enjoyed enough to actually register as a member. And I like how you've handled things so far. You managed to take a situation that would have only left me feeling angry and afraid for the site's future and made me laugh with your comments and Ditto censoring.
And WPM, just wanted to say I appreciate all that you do for Pokémon fans. You work hard and care about this site and it really shows. I occasionally go to Serebii and Bulbapedia as well, but PokéBeach is the only site I've enjoyed enough to actually register as a member. And I like how you've handled things so far. You managed to take a situation that would have only left me feeling angry and afraid for the site's future and made me laugh with your comments and Ditto censoring.
B
Baconspanker
What im wondering is why Nintendo is doing this now of all times?!....I mean if they we're really so concerned they would've stopped sites like this one and Serebii from posting pics and doing coverage since Diamond and Pearl came out.....It's sad to see when a great gaming company decides to act person.....But never the less I shall continue to be a fan of Nintendos games til they truly truly fail.....
Why don't we just boycott the Black and White games? Since their so paranoid about images and S**T, I say as soon as a working ROM is accessible, distribute and take revenge on Nintendo for abusing the sons of beaches, pokebeach that is. Besides the 5th generation is f**ked up anyway, only the final evolution of the grass starter looks good. We can all survive with the 1st to 4th generation, and with Arceus on our side, what other legendary pokemon do we really need, O-M-A, oh my arceus.
O
Omegathequilava
Nintendo is really dissapointing me here. If it weren't for sites like serebii and pokebeach I probably would have moved on with life and forgotten pokemon, and guess what Nintendo, I BUY THE GAMES. But why should I now? I don't want to help them by giving them my hard earned money. Its painfully easy to acquire roms, but usually if the game is worth the money I'd buy it. This time though... I'm not so sure. I've got a tattoo of a quilava on my back and now I'm starting to regret it. Not because the pokemon has gotten any less cool, but now I hate what it stands for. This is such bulls**t.
Not buying the games isn't going to help anything, unless you happen to absolutely despise the new Pokémon in which case why would you care that the images of them have been taken down?
I was dissapointed in nintendo for not allowing the images to to be posted in sites like pokebeach when they already released the games in japan. It didn't make sense. Do they hate other countries that much? I don't love the new generation as much as the first but I just think that it is wrong to abuse the fans like the people of pokebeach. I actually hated the 5th generation when the first pictures came out, but when Pokebeach kept posting new images and new videos I started to like them a little bit. It made me "curious" as to what else is in Pokemon Black and White and made me think of actually buying it, but if they have to be a b**ch about it and say that sites like pokebeach cannot post images of the game that is already released in japan, then that is the last straw. Nintendo has gone to the growlithes, the arcanines, and the houndours, and were all houndoomed.
Omf, thank you SO MUCH for pointing this out WPM. I really hate how Nintendo does this crap. There's no excuse. They are one of the biggest video game companies, they could EASILY do a simultaneous release, especially with the current technology. I bet that a dedicated fan team could have a workable translation patch up before the official release!
Yeah, and Apple could have easily did 3G in their first iteration of the iPhone too, etc.
Company business practices in real life rarely go according to ideal outcomes.
Regards to translation, the stuff in a pokemon game is a lot more than you think (most people forget about tooltips and dialogues). When Bangiras translates the stuff, she doesn't have to worry about implementation (rewriting source code, etc).
Plus they also have to mess with the source code to turn slot machines into card flipping crap and removing the ability to catch celebis from forest shrines and stuff like that...
It would've been better if NoA develops the english version alongside the japanese version, meaning stuff like every pokemon/character/place/item pretty much receives its english name together with its japanese name, etc. it'd be more efficient. It's also not gonna happen. That's not how they do things. As far as game freak and nintendo is concerned, pokemon is Japanese first, everything else later. There are even times where I wondered if the game would be better off if it were managed or developed by people other than the incumbent development team.
Company business practices in real life rarely go according to ideal outcomes.
Regards to translation, the stuff in a pokemon game is a lot more than you think (most people forget about tooltips and dialogues). When Bangiras translates the stuff, she doesn't have to worry about implementation (rewriting source code, etc).
Plus they also have to mess with the source code to turn slot machines into card flipping crap and removing the ability to catch celebis from forest shrines and stuff like that...
It would've been better if NoA develops the english version alongside the japanese version, meaning stuff like every pokemon/character/place/item pretty much receives its english name together with its japanese name, etc. it'd be more efficient. It's also not gonna happen. That's not how they do things. As far as game freak and nintendo is concerned, pokemon is Japanese first, everything else later. There are even times where I wondered if the game would be better off if it were managed or developed by people other than the incumbent development team.
I bet the lawyer is Reggie in disquise first Mother now pokemon?
@ least im a canadian! and nintendo of canada knows me! (been their 9 times all cause a broken DS)
I think pokemon USA is just jealous of what a bad site they have!
@ least im a canadian! and nintendo of canada knows me! (been their 9 times all cause a broken DS)
I think pokemon USA is just jealous of what a bad site they have!
(This post might get deleted) Just to put it in perspective, this guy(I won't say his name) created a english patch for the japanese rom of heartgold and soulsilver, 2 weeks after the release. (Though it was only 80% of the game)
Also aren't we getting the 3DS before Japan?
P
Pokerman
This is so fake it's not funny. There are waaaay too many inconsistencies with proper law practice and the way this was carried out. It's obvious that the webmaster is having a bit of an ego trip, and inventing some drama to make him look like a 'hero of the people', and/or to make Nintendo look bad.
I have to say that I talked this whole situation up a lot with my friends, and loved WPM's response to the whole situation because it made me lol. LAWL NO BW FOR YOU! CAN HAZ DITTOZ INSTEAD. XD I came to the forums ready with a torch and pitchfork to take some action and set up petitions and boycotts and express our collectively immense displeasure with Nintendo's actions, but after reading the 20 pages of posts here, and thinking about it, I've cooled down quite a bit.
First of all, no one here can argue about the legal issue. Even if by some awesome legal loophole we managed to find grounds to go against the cease-and-desist, it wouldn't help Pokebeach, Nintendo, or anyone else to do anything like go to court. So everyone should stop saying that.
Secondly, we're all entitled to our own opinions. That's the beauty of the Internet. Not only do we know about what happened, we can discuss it, rant about it, and do whatever we want. If you want to show Nintendo how pissed you are, go ahead. In fact, you can even ignore what I said about stopping the whole "sue Nintendo" nonsense, because that's simply my opinion. Going along those lines, I'd also like to say that those of you complaining about WPM's "immature" and "unprofessional" response, I'd like to state my opinion by reiterating his response: Shut up. It's his website, and he can do what he wants. Professionalism is boring and dumb anyway.
If you think Nintendo's totally justified, you're justified in thinking they're justified.
Lastly, and more importantly, what will happen in the future for Pokemon fansites and Pokebeach in particular? This is the most important question raised throughout this whole debacle, and it comes, rightly so, from WPM himself. He's doing what any person in such a situation should do: find out what he can do to prevent this from happening again. At the very least, Nintendo can give him an answer to that as a simple courtesy. Unfortunately, no matter who he manages to talk to in Nintendo, he will get the same legal response that the lawyer gave, simply because it's legally better for them to have people question what can be posted so that they aren't bound by anything. Think about it. As awful as it is, Nintendo would much rather keep WPM anxious like this than ease his worries by giving him an answer, because if they did, they would be giving every other fan site a precedent to go off of and to defend their use of Pokemon content. It weakens Nintendo legally to explicitly give permission to use their "intellectual property." So, WPM gets a wishy-washy, legal mumbo-jumbo answer that will let Nintendo choose to do whatever they want when they want, while not explicitly preventing him from posting anything. He can choose to post images, and they can choose to take action. The best of both worlds in their eyes.
So, what now? Nothing. Although it sucks, we just have to let it die down now. If anything, we can try to focus our efforts on wringing out an answer out of Nintendo as to how this situation can be avoided in the future, but I highly doubt we'll get the straight answer we want for the reasons I outlined above. The only thing that we can and should be doing, is showing WPM how much we support him and appreciate his effort, and that we'll be behind him in whatever he wants to do with the site. WPM owes us nothing. We owe him. He could justify shutting down Pokebeach altogether to avoid this tension. He does have a life, you know. The very fact that he wants to continue to support the Pokemon community shows his determination and commitment. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who would feel a giant void in his life if Pokebeach was gone. (I mean really, there's only so much Serebii I can take XD).
So thanks again for everything, WPM. For what it's worth, you have a huge community of people who care and appreciate everything you do, even if Nintendo doesn't. <3
First of all, no one here can argue about the legal issue. Even if by some awesome legal loophole we managed to find grounds to go against the cease-and-desist, it wouldn't help Pokebeach, Nintendo, or anyone else to do anything like go to court. So everyone should stop saying that.
Secondly, we're all entitled to our own opinions. That's the beauty of the Internet. Not only do we know about what happened, we can discuss it, rant about it, and do whatever we want. If you want to show Nintendo how pissed you are, go ahead. In fact, you can even ignore what I said about stopping the whole "sue Nintendo" nonsense, because that's simply my opinion. Going along those lines, I'd also like to say that those of you complaining about WPM's "immature" and "unprofessional" response, I'd like to state my opinion by reiterating his response: Shut up. It's his website, and he can do what he wants. Professionalism is boring and dumb anyway.
If you think Nintendo's totally justified, you're justified in thinking they're justified. Lastly, and more importantly, what will happen in the future for Pokemon fansites and Pokebeach in particular? This is the most important question raised throughout this whole debacle, and it comes, rightly so, from WPM himself. He's doing what any person in such a situation should do: find out what he can do to prevent this from happening again. At the very least, Nintendo can give him an answer to that as a simple courtesy. Unfortunately, no matter who he manages to talk to in Nintendo, he will get the same legal response that the lawyer gave, simply because it's legally better for them to have people question what can be posted so that they aren't bound by anything. Think about it. As awful as it is, Nintendo would much rather keep WPM anxious like this than ease his worries by giving him an answer, because if they did, they would be giving every other fan site a precedent to go off of and to defend their use of Pokemon content. It weakens Nintendo legally to explicitly give permission to use their "intellectual property." So, WPM gets a wishy-washy, legal mumbo-jumbo answer that will let Nintendo choose to do whatever they want when they want, while not explicitly preventing him from posting anything. He can choose to post images, and they can choose to take action. The best of both worlds in their eyes.
So, what now? Nothing. Although it sucks, we just have to let it die down now. If anything, we can try to focus our efforts on wringing out an answer out of Nintendo as to how this situation can be avoided in the future, but I highly doubt we'll get the straight answer we want for the reasons I outlined above. The only thing that we can and should be doing, is showing WPM how much we support him and appreciate his effort, and that we'll be behind him in whatever he wants to do with the site. WPM owes us nothing. We owe him. He could justify shutting down Pokebeach altogether to avoid this tension. He does have a life, you know. The very fact that he wants to continue to support the Pokemon community shows his determination and commitment. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who would feel a giant void in his life if Pokebeach was gone. (I mean really, there's only so much Serebii I can take XD).
So thanks again for everything, WPM. For what it's worth, you have a huge community of people who care and appreciate everything you do, even if Nintendo doesn't. <3
Pokerman said:
What's it going to take for you to get that the situation is real? What proof do you have that it's fake? None. Unless you're an American lawyer (and even if you were), you wouldn't be able to find any 'inconsistencies' in what the lawyer said. May I also remind you that you probably don't know half the information that WPM knows on the situation because he's the only one with any contact to legitimate sources.
Do you really think WPM and Serebii would be making this up? Why on earth would a Pokemon fan want to make Nintendo look bad. To suggest that this whole situation is fake is like suggesting that Nintendo doesn't exist. What you've said is completely preposterous, so before you start making outrageous comments like that, you should probably do a little more research.
I think Suraako wins this thread. Nintendo can't give me an answer because it'll mean their defining things, which they obviously do not want to do. They probably won't even care what I do from now on as long as it's not spoiling a new generation super early, which only happens once every several years (next time it could happen I probably won't even be here). Since someone has finally reached a logical conclusion, I'm closing this.
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