(1) Several New ‘X Collection’ and ‘Y Collection’ Cards Revealed! [11/14]
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
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xGallade said:
The correct translation is "Prevent all damage done to this Pokémon by attacks during your opponent's next turn. This Pokémon can't use King's Shield during your next turn."
I believe PokéBeach is missing the part about not being able to use it the next turn.
Furn said:
Same with Garchomp EX. Not a fan of that card though.
In regard to what I bolded from your post...excuse me? Where do you find an attack that good on a non-EX for a cost like that? I'm not going to make my full judgement on Mega Pokemon until they're released and we can a chance to use them, but right now I'm thinking they have a lot of potential even with the "your turn ends" clause.Bisharp said:
Just wait until it mega evolves. : PForeignDude said:
Reggie McGigas said:
5ban Graphics is the name for Creatures Inc.'s in-house art department. It's only natural that the bulk of the art is done by them for the first set of a generation, as was the case with the early BW sets.
While 5Ban is improving it is utterly disgusting to see good artist potential get replaced by 3D unfitting models. My main gripe is they just look so off with the border/style. I was fine with trainer cards but it's really upsetting to see all these damn 5Ban Graphics cards popping up.
These cards deserve better.
These cards deserve better.
Hey, I just realized... These Mega Evolutions are actually a proper Evolution (they have a "stage" and the same evolution box as regular Pokemon), so Soda works for them. o.o Also means stuff like Devolution Punch is slightly better now.
I'm not a big fan of 3D artwork, in fact I have disowned many cards I have pulled from the Black and White sets because the artwork was really bland... even the hand drawn artwork was meh. Legendary Treasures/EX Battle Boost had really amazing artwork, even for some of the cards that were rendered in 3D.
I am not really digging the art for the common and uncommon cards. The starters for example look really weird in 3D... that's why I didn't buy the promo boxes or XY starter decks.
I however DO... like Greninja's and Delphox's artwork... although I hated the starter deck versions... I do feel like I'll be buying singles instead of packs now though. A shame cause I felt like this set was gonna be super exciting for opening a booster box.
Also: I'm not sure why the Mega Evolutions have the opposite language on them. It just looks odd... but even if it was the correct language, it's still weird to see a blemish of words all over a Pokémon.
I am not really digging the art for the common and uncommon cards. The starters for example look really weird in 3D... that's why I didn't buy the promo boxes or XY starter decks.
I however DO... like Greninja's and Delphox's artwork... although I hated the starter deck versions... I do feel like I'll be buying singles instead of packs now though. A shame cause I felt like this set was gonna be super exciting for opening a booster box.
Also: I'm not sure why the Mega Evolutions have the opposite language on them. It just looks odd... but even if it was the correct language, it's still weird to see a blemish of words all over a Pokémon.
Are you guys kidding, i could get some grievance with Venasuar but this Mega Blastoise is freaking sexy, if you don't like it just send em all to me when the time comes around.
"Evolves from Venusaur EX" is pretty clear. Doesn't even say "Mega Evolves from Venusaur EX" or something. I think the "Evolves from..." bit is what qualifies a Pokemon as an Evolution Card to begin with isn't it?
First let me state that all of the Evolving Pokémon are disappointing; while not all of them are pure vanilla, there is nothing to make using them worthwhile as you have beneficial but weak effects not worth using because said Pokémon is unlikely to survive.
A lot of people are excited about Evolutionary Soda; does it allow you to Evolve after it was played e.g. Basic Pokémon (that was already in play that turn), play Evolutionary Soda on it to search and play the Stage 1 form down, then manually Evolve into a Stage 2?
If you can use it for Mega Pokémon-EX, does the "Your turn ends" clause for Evolving into them still apply? Without these (or some unknown future combo) the card isn't that impressive; it isn't Evolution acceleration, just search that forces you to immediately Evolve a target that, had you just used another search card, you could manually Evolve into anyway.
When it comes to evaluating the rest, I am reminded of the saying "Its not the size but how you use it." Blastoise EX hits hard for the Energy invested, but that doesn't mean it hits well; 120 won't OHKO most Pokémon-EX and thus you'll need boosting to do so. Bench damage is tricky now; more useful because of the Pokémon Catcher nerf but less because such damage already plays a role and now Mr. Mime can safely sit on the Bench in just about any deck, blocking such damage (as well as big snipe damage). The Energy cost is high enough you'll need Energy acceleration, and the best and most likely candidate amongst the current card pool is still regular Blastoise; no room for upping damage and so you might as well stick with established strategies that are more Energy intensive yet... but also score the important OHKOs. This is before considering that you'll lose a turn "Mega Evolving".
Greninja shows promise, but probably not alongside another Stage 2 Pokémon; I think you just need something it can "hide behind", especially if it can deliver a solid hit. Perhaps the Outrage Dragons? This is probably the most promising Pokémon of those leaked in this batch.
Delphox is the next most promising, but I haven't heard any good deck ideas for it yet. No, I am not sold on partnering with Emboar: "Magneboar" decks didn't have to load a single attacker up with Energy for big hits (Magnezone Prime could remove Energy from anything you had in play), the entire deck will have a common Weakness while said Weakness has one of the best decks in the game, and Magnezone also was big before we had Mewtwo EX or Frozen City. Not ruling this out completely, but like I said I need "more" before it seems legit.
Chestnaught might be fun, but not effective. If you try to partner it with Rock Guard, be aware that Tool Scrapper is likely to become more popular, not less and that Escape Rope also ruins the combo. I still think something can be done with it (though it might not fall into the "competitive" sphere), but you're better focusing on making it better able to soak damage... at least I think. ^^'
Both Aegislash are interesting, but I have no idea if they can be made "competitive". You're investing a lot for a Pokémon that appears designed to 2HKO just about everything while an attack effect protects it between turns. Same name means you can only run four total, and unless the translation was badly botched you're just keeping the cards you play down on the same form (not discarding them or returning them to your hand). So... use Stance Change once and now the most you can have are three Aegislash in play (and neither of the others can use Stance Change). Sure there are effects to reclaim them, but that means either luck (Super Scoop Up is getting a reprint, right?), burning your Ace Spec (Scoop Up Cyclone), or slowly reclaiming them after an Aegislsah has been KOed.
Talonflame requires we start playing very different for its Ability... wait, that's an attack? Okay, so its just bad; most decks can make a comeback from a four card hand. As an attack, it needed to force your opponent to discard and then draw seven. Why? Then it might work as a mill deck. The second attack needs a form of acceleration to be used over and over again... and even if you do its on a 130 HP Stage 2: no thanks.
A lot of people are excited about Evolutionary Soda; does it allow you to Evolve after it was played e.g. Basic Pokémon (that was already in play that turn), play Evolutionary Soda on it to search and play the Stage 1 form down, then manually Evolve into a Stage 2?
If you can use it for Mega Pokémon-EX, does the "Your turn ends" clause for Evolving into them still apply? Without these (or some unknown future combo) the card isn't that impressive; it isn't Evolution acceleration, just search that forces you to immediately Evolve a target that, had you just used another search card, you could manually Evolve into anyway.
When it comes to evaluating the rest, I am reminded of the saying "Its not the size but how you use it." Blastoise EX hits hard for the Energy invested, but that doesn't mean it hits well; 120 won't OHKO most Pokémon-EX and thus you'll need boosting to do so. Bench damage is tricky now; more useful because of the Pokémon Catcher nerf but less because such damage already plays a role and now Mr. Mime can safely sit on the Bench in just about any deck, blocking such damage (as well as big snipe damage). The Energy cost is high enough you'll need Energy acceleration, and the best and most likely candidate amongst the current card pool is still regular Blastoise; no room for upping damage and so you might as well stick with established strategies that are more Energy intensive yet... but also score the important OHKOs. This is before considering that you'll lose a turn "Mega Evolving".
Greninja shows promise, but probably not alongside another Stage 2 Pokémon; I think you just need something it can "hide behind", especially if it can deliver a solid hit. Perhaps the Outrage Dragons? This is probably the most promising Pokémon of those leaked in this batch.
Delphox is the next most promising, but I haven't heard any good deck ideas for it yet. No, I am not sold on partnering with Emboar: "Magneboar" decks didn't have to load a single attacker up with Energy for big hits (Magnezone Prime could remove Energy from anything you had in play), the entire deck will have a common Weakness while said Weakness has one of the best decks in the game, and Magnezone also was big before we had Mewtwo EX or Frozen City. Not ruling this out completely, but like I said I need "more" before it seems legit.
Chestnaught might be fun, but not effective. If you try to partner it with Rock Guard, be aware that Tool Scrapper is likely to become more popular, not less and that Escape Rope also ruins the combo. I still think something can be done with it (though it might not fall into the "competitive" sphere), but you're better focusing on making it better able to soak damage... at least I think. ^^'
Both Aegislash are interesting, but I have no idea if they can be made "competitive". You're investing a lot for a Pokémon that appears designed to 2HKO just about everything while an attack effect protects it between turns. Same name means you can only run four total, and unless the translation was badly botched you're just keeping the cards you play down on the same form (not discarding them or returning them to your hand). So... use Stance Change once and now the most you can have are three Aegislash in play (and neither of the others can use Stance Change). Sure there are effects to reclaim them, but that means either luck (Super Scoop Up is getting a reprint, right?), burning your Ace Spec (Scoop Up Cyclone), or slowly reclaiming them after an Aegislsah has been KOed.
Talonflame requires we start playing very different for its Ability... wait, that's an attack? Okay, so its just bad; most decks can make a comeback from a four card hand. As an attack, it needed to force your opponent to discard and then draw seven. Why? Then it might work as a mill deck. The second attack needs a form of acceleration to be used over and over again... and even if you do its on a 130 HP Stage 2: no thanks.
Otaku said:
It still applies, as it counts as evolving the pokemon, as implied on the card, but as the set it comes in is still unreleased at this point in time, this is merely a rough guess. The true answer to question will not come until next month, when Japanese release of the related set occurs.
Otaku said:
Not to mention that the 60-card-per-deck rule means that if you run deluge blastoise, there could be less room in deck for critical EXs, trainers, supporters, etc. And in this age of tcg, since 3 or more deluge blastoise will ensure that deluge does not fall victim to a quick knockout when it comes to grass-types like Virizion-EX/Genesect-EX, you might need more room to compliment your deck and make it easier to find cards that work together in order to counter damage + quick set-up decks that require less energy to do their work, and don't require much evolving to perform at their strongest, meaning too much favorites that fails to center the deck around a specific strategy means your deck could be KO'ed quickly and constantly. That's one reason why I believe that EX blastoise usage will be low in terms of likely usage in winning deluge decks, and that the only time I will likely see its use is in a deck that uses energy acceleration would be in a deck that uses a Victory Star spec held to victini so that its "Turbo Energize" can power it up quickly with less room occupied than it would have been by squirtle + rare candy + Blastoise Deluge+ Blastoise-EX + Mega Blastoise, and in the cases of decks such as that, EX blastoise could be usable in those decks only, as victini takes up less deck room that(as mentioned before) deluge blastoise will even take up if you must have an EX pokemon in order to use a mega evolution too. Another card that may be used less in modified tournament play...
Otaku said:
Think ability Chandelure, only with an extra requirement for activation: Chandelure does not need to discard an energy from your hand to make it work like Greninja does, but it would mean deluge blastoise is not much use here, unless you have Kingdra to get the energy back in your deck so you can draw and use the energy again, whether by normal use, or by deluge...
Otaku said:
Think Bianca, only without the one-and-discarded and one-supporter-in-a-turn limitations that supporter trainer cards have. Useful if you don't have tropical beach or don't feel like wasting a trainer slot for Bianca...
Otaku said:
Don't forget Plasma Blast(International)/BW-P(Japan)Salamence + Devolution spray, as salamence has an ability that discards all pokemon tools, as another method that renders rock guard useless against specific decks...
Otaku said:
Don't forget Super Rod, which is still legal due to its inclusion in Dragon Vault, as it can scoop Aegislash out of the discard pile, and in the process, ensuring that one use of any ultra ball/master ball/deck search cards(which involve picking any pokemon card and putting it in hand) means Aegislash is back in play after the scoop from discard pile and put back in the deck to be searched, shown to opponent, and put in the searcher's hand for re-putdown in the field of play...
Otaku said:
Beats the old Aron + Lairon + Devolution spray + Aggron mill deck by rendering the devolution spray unnecessary and obsolete in terms of how to make it work. In this age of tcg, I'd say Talonflame is vital for mill decks...
Looks like Rainbow energy is going to be making an appearance. I started playing the TCG right about when it was rotated out so I'm definitely looking forward to trying that card out!
I'm late to the party, but here are my thoughts.
Chesnaught: Passable. It hits the magic 90 and has the HP and typing to make a decent tank. But the attack is still pretty expensive and the ability isn't anything to write home about. Could be good with Virizion EX, but outside of that, I don't see much use for this.
Greninja: So so attack, but I like the ability. Kingdra (plasma freeze) with Greninja could make a fun deck.
Delphox: Now this has serious potential. Built in draw and a powerful attack in one card? Brilliant. This could be awesome with Emboar. This is how stage 2s should be done.
Talonflame: Outclassed by Infernape (plasma storm) who hits for more damage. Infernape hasn't seen much play so I doubt this will either.
Aegislash: A neat concept, but I don't think it's done well here. Metal has virtually no means of acceleration so good luck getting four energy on this thing. While Buster Swing does some nice damage, King's Shield is just terrible for the cost. There are so many ways around it and you can still only use it once every two turns. Yuck.
Evolutionary Soda: A nice search card for things that can't be searched by any of the ball cards, but only in decks using multiple evolution lines. Even there, it's limited since it can't grab any basics.
As for the mega EXes, I see a lot of potential and I like the concept a lot, but I don't think they will be as big as TCPI is hoping. The strength EXes had (and still have) are that they are basics that can be played down instantly. Not only are they ridiculously overpowered, but you can catch your opponent by surprise with them, making them pretty much broken. Mega EXes not only require a turn to evolve, but also have the devistating drawback of forcing you to skip your turn when you play them. That's TWO turns your opponent has to prepare for these. Is it really worth it just for 40 or 50 extra HP?
Venusaur has a lot of potential with it's auto poison and paralysis attack. With virbank, you can knock out pretty much anything in one hit and those you don't will be knocked out going into your next turn. But it costs FOUR energy, three of which must be grass to use. Combined with the handy it already has for being a mega evolution, this is going to take a lot of work to set up. Even if you do, a Virizion EX or switching card can make this pretty average.
At least Blastoise has type advantage. It's friend from boundaries crossed should have no problem powering this up. It's attack is pretty good too (like a night spear on steroids), but is it as good as Keldeo's Secret Sword or Black Kyurem's Black Balista? That I am not sure.
Chesnaught: Passable. It hits the magic 90 and has the HP and typing to make a decent tank. But the attack is still pretty expensive and the ability isn't anything to write home about. Could be good with Virizion EX, but outside of that, I don't see much use for this.
Greninja: So so attack, but I like the ability. Kingdra (plasma freeze) with Greninja could make a fun deck.
Delphox: Now this has serious potential. Built in draw and a powerful attack in one card? Brilliant. This could be awesome with Emboar. This is how stage 2s should be done.
Talonflame: Outclassed by Infernape (plasma storm) who hits for more damage. Infernape hasn't seen much play so I doubt this will either.
Aegislash: A neat concept, but I don't think it's done well here. Metal has virtually no means of acceleration so good luck getting four energy on this thing. While Buster Swing does some nice damage, King's Shield is just terrible for the cost. There are so many ways around it and you can still only use it once every two turns. Yuck.
Evolutionary Soda: A nice search card for things that can't be searched by any of the ball cards, but only in decks using multiple evolution lines. Even there, it's limited since it can't grab any basics.
As for the mega EXes, I see a lot of potential and I like the concept a lot, but I don't think they will be as big as TCPI is hoping. The strength EXes had (and still have) are that they are basics that can be played down instantly. Not only are they ridiculously overpowered, but you can catch your opponent by surprise with them, making them pretty much broken. Mega EXes not only require a turn to evolve, but also have the devistating drawback of forcing you to skip your turn when you play them. That's TWO turns your opponent has to prepare for these. Is it really worth it just for 40 or 50 extra HP?
Venusaur has a lot of potential with it's auto poison and paralysis attack. With virbank, you can knock out pretty much anything in one hit and those you don't will be knocked out going into your next turn. But it costs FOUR energy, three of which must be grass to use. Combined with the handy it already has for being a mega evolution, this is going to take a lot of work to set up. Even if you do, a Virizion EX or switching card can make this pretty average.
At least Blastoise has type advantage. It's friend from boundaries crossed should have no problem powering this up. It's attack is pretty good too (like a night spear on steroids), but is it as good as Keldeo's Secret Sword or Black Kyurem's Black Balista? That I am not sure.
Actually... Infernape requires to discard ALL energy attached to it. Only reason I remember this is because someone used it against me in a pre-release and swept me until a Judge yelled at him and said "No, no, no, you guys need to start over, you're supposed to discard ALL energies attached not 2! You have SIX so you need to discard ALL of them! No stacking!!" And I was thinking "That card's way too good to not be an EX..."