(2) 'Victini and Zekrom' To Play on Cartoon Network in February, New Forme for Kyurem Officially Hin
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
- Start date
Metalizard said:
I kinda hope I'm wrong on that, though. I would hope they'd want to make each forme as backwards compatible as possible - which seems to be the case with Meloetta. There's a chance it won't see the light of day until 2013 (or at the soonest, late 2012) so the fact they included both formes in the original two games is significant considering how formes have been handled since Generation 3 (Deoxys, Giratina, Shaymin).
I dunno, like I said in my first post and as others have also said, there's a decent chance these hints simply refer to the hidden moves or just plot details, so I guess I should stop over-analyzing it. It's pointless for me to try to figure out how they think when it comes to releasing Formes. ~_~;
btw:
-> This is another thing that makes think that not only it will have a new forme, but it'll maybe be an all-powerful, almighty awesome-looking forme (I mean, "God" Stone?)... at least, I hope so, lol...
When development for a generation of Pokémon goes underway, they think holistically--that is, they plan out what's going to happen over the entire period for that generation, including the third version, remakes (where it applies), and likely side games. For instance, game data for Arceus exists in the Diamond and Pearl versions, but it wasn't officially released until near the end of the generation. Stuff like Shaymin Sky Forme, I'd bet, WERE thought up in the middle of the generation, but other stuff, like Arceus or Deoxys, were not.
So yeah, Game Freak DOES intentionally hold back on releasing stuff. Just not everything.
Id guess they don't intend to make Meloetta SO special where they would want to hide it till a movie.
Because exluding it has the price of having to limit it later to the third game (or at least its forme). Its forme changes through using a move, which they already put tutors for into BW...
Its actually the better way to deal with it, but obviously all the internet now knows about it, and they didnt want kyurems secret to be 100% obvious at all costs.
And even though their use is restricted to their game, they can include everything of this kind in a later generation for competitive battling.
Doesnt seem that complicated reasoning.
Another possibility is that the forme will only be part of the story and not stay as an actual playable pokemon afterwards, if they pulled some temp fusion of the dragons or something similarly crazy... I doubt it but theres no way we can know what theyre planning, as all there is is,
-a stat/move-wise weaker and weaker looking third dragon (making everyone speculate about what will happen to it)
-a grey stone (they could have excluded it, so it was either forgotten or is there to add to speculation, especially with the inproper name god stone)
-2 powerful Ice moves that relate to the other dragons (which may as well just mean itll get them from movie release)
I just hope there will be something stronger in Kyurems place when gen VI arrives, and not just switched stats (and levitate) for the price of holding a specific item like happened to Giratina.. well it should get at least equal to Reshiram and Zekrom so they will actually count as a trio, if not better than them Rayquaza style.
Should be hard with that cursed Ice typing...
Does anyone else think they should balance the type chart a bit more already? Or at least the few obvious parts like Ice being shit defensively, poison only being effective against a single type...
I know it was left untouched for 4 generations, but still.
What I thought would help while not adding weirder relations than existing ones:
http://saiph-charon.deviantart.com/art/More-balance-204921036
Because exluding it has the price of having to limit it later to the third game (or at least its forme). Its forme changes through using a move, which they already put tutors for into BW...
Its actually the better way to deal with it, but obviously all the internet now knows about it, and they didnt want kyurems secret to be 100% obvious at all costs.
And even though their use is restricted to their game, they can include everything of this kind in a later generation for competitive battling.
Doesnt seem that complicated reasoning.
Another possibility is that the forme will only be part of the story and not stay as an actual playable pokemon afterwards, if they pulled some temp fusion of the dragons or something similarly crazy... I doubt it but theres no way we can know what theyre planning, as all there is is,
-a stat/move-wise weaker and weaker looking third dragon (making everyone speculate about what will happen to it)
-a grey stone (they could have excluded it, so it was either forgotten or is there to add to speculation, especially with the inproper name god stone)
-2 powerful Ice moves that relate to the other dragons (which may as well just mean itll get them from movie release)
I just hope there will be something stronger in Kyurems place when gen VI arrives, and not just switched stats (and levitate) for the price of holding a specific item like happened to Giratina.. well it should get at least equal to Reshiram and Zekrom so they will actually count as a trio, if not better than them Rayquaza style.
Should be hard with that cursed Ice typing...
Does anyone else think they should balance the type chart a bit more already? Or at least the few obvious parts like Ice being shit defensively, poison only being effective against a single type...
I know it was left untouched for 4 generations, but still.
What I thought would help while not adding weirder relations than existing ones:
http://saiph-charon.deviantart.com/art/More-balance-204921036
Meloetta's aria and pirouette formes both being in Black and White isn't another case at all.Metalizard said:
The Pokémon Company obviously plans these things out - it wouldn't make sense for both of them to be programmed into Black and White while another Pokémon's forme was left out if that left out forme was to be in Grey - which would be out before Meloetta. If it's to keep Kyurem's forme all special for Grey, then why is Meloetta - a Mythical Pokémon - any less special?
Honestly, I don't even see why people are expecting Kyurem to get an alternate forme. Sure, Giratina got one - but Blastoise, Pikachu, Suicune and Rayquaza didn't. Something cannot be confirmed as a pattern unless it happens three or more times and something cannot be suspected as being a pattern until it happens twice - the third version mascot getting a new forme has only happened once, so it is more than likely to be nothing but an isolated incident now.
Meloetta's Pirouette forme being included in Black and White was obviously GameFreak thinking about compatibility throughout Generation V - learning from the mistakes made in Generation IV (what with DP and PBR being incompatible with the new Rotom, Giratina and Shaymin formes and them and Pt being incompatible with the Spiky-Eared Pichu).
Ryu Shoji said:
If Giratina never got a new forme, Id still argue that Kyurem would, because unlike Giratina who looked perfectly fine visually and statwise, just look at Kyurem, its a mysterious counterpart to Reshiram/Zekrom without a generator, icy bits partially broken and lower stats.
Giratina having gotten a new forme doesnt tell me there is a pattern, but rather proves that its not impossible that they could include a pokemon not existing until third version, because they already did once.
It actually seems to me like Giratinas Origin forme (along with Skymin) might have been made up after DP release, whereas Kyurem was planned with a later upgrade in ind from the beginning.
Just a correction for Water Pokémon Master: if Ruby and Sapphire remakes should be remaked, they wouldn't come out in 2013, at least if they should be released 10th anniversary. Their 10th anniversary would be in 2012 :b
There is a possibility that they both come out this year. Thats what happened with Emerald and FRLG xD
But like someone said, FRLG didn't come out on the 10th anniversary... so maybe not, but this could also just be a beginning on a new tradition C:
There is a possibility that they both come out this year. Thats what happened with Emerald and FRLG xD
But like someone said, FRLG didn't come out on the 10th anniversary... so maybe not, but this could also just be a beginning on a new tradition C:
I love all this speculation. 
Another showing on TV. Nice. Maybe I can catch it this time.
Another showing on TV. Nice. Maybe I can catch it this time.
People argue that Kyurem represents wuju; which is the absence of yin and yang as well as "Absolute Zero" - so Kyurem having no "generator" or one that looks out of use makes perfect sense.Mitja said:
As for lower stats; Rayquaza's base stat total wasn't the same as Groudon and Kyogre's, but it didn't get a new form. Giratina's was the same as Dialga and Palkia's to begin with, but it still got one. IF Kyurem receives a new forme (which I highly doubt), considering the existence of both of Meloetta's formes in BW, it would scream to me that GameFreak make up this crap as they go along, which I severely doubt.
Ryu Shoji said:
Little flaw in your logic there, Rayquaza, Kyogre, and Groudon all have 680 base stats. So far, we've never had a legendary trio where at least 2 are mascots, and the third doesn't have the same stats. Therefore, there is no precedent whatsoever for Kyurem. There's a better argument for Cobalion being the third mascot (think G/S/E) than for or against Kyurem getting a new form(s), really.
^No, actually, Groudon & Kyogre have 670 BST...
@Ryu Shoji: Yes, Meloetta is another case because it won't be a game mascot. Grey has to have something new and I think Kyurem will have a new forme not because Giratina had one, but because its design and relation with the other 2 members of the Tao Trio suggest so... Like Mitja and I said earlier, it was clearly made with a new forme already in mind...
@Ryu Shoji: Yes, Meloetta is another case because it won't be a game mascot. Grey has to have something new and I think Kyurem will have a new forme not because Giratina had one, but because its design and relation with the other 2 members of the Tao Trio suggest so... Like Mitja and I said earlier, it was clearly made with a new forme already in mind...
I see what you mean Ryu. And yes Kyurem as it is now does make perfect sense without any improvement and I like that. I just don't see like that to be good enough to work for a third cover. They will add some new twist somehow for sure.
Wrong there. Groudon and Kyogre have 670, Rayquaza 680.
Hence why I always argue they're not an actual trio. Rayquaza obviously has a superior role towards the duo. Better stats, the intelligent one that clams them down, its ability stopping weather isntead of causing havoc, heck even 3 different pattern colors instead of 1, a second type etc.
Dark Void said:
Wrong there. Groudon and Kyogre have 670, Rayquaza 680.
Hence why I always argue they're not an actual trio. Rayquaza obviously has a superior role towards the duo. Better stats, the intelligent one that clams them down, its ability stopping weather isntead of causing havoc, heck even 3 different pattern colors instead of 1, a second type etc.
I see people are still doubting the possibility of RS remakes and are using their negative opinion of the games as some sort of logical reason as to why it won't be made. And then I see those tired arguments of it not being necessary. Well, the same can be said of HGSS, but they were still made. Why? Because they would make a lot of money off of them. Do you really think the developers are only making games that give players Pokemon they couldn't access? This was a controversial move back in the third generation, and now they've fixed it so that you can complete the PokeDex without buying every single game. That DOES NOT mean that they won't still pump out a new remake each generation. I mean, why would they stop? The remakes are profitable!
If I had a dollar for every topic or post I've seen about RS remakes and how much people want these or expect these to be made, I'd be rich. It's as requested as GS remakes were last generation. And still, we had nay-sayers who doubted those would happen. It's easier to remake an older Pokemon game than to make a brand new game with a new region, new Pokemon, characters etc. And yet, both make plenty of money. I have a question for those against RS remakes. Do you guys want less mainstream Pokemon games? Because the way I see it is, we get our new paired version games that start off the generation. Later we get an improved version of said games. And then we have the remakes of older games. If we suddenly take the remakes away, what fills in the blanks? More crappy spin-off games a lot of us don't care about?
They simply can't make games with new Pokemon any more often than they do. So when they're not giving us a new treat, they reinvent an old one with lots of new features. Nostalgia + new stuff = profit.
And don't try to convince me that they can't remake RS on DS or 3DS and not be able to add a ton of stuff the originals didn't have. I for one just want to be able to play through Hoenn with a time of day system for the first time ever. Physical and special split in my RS games? Yes please. Could they make new areas and add more available Pokemon? With ease. If you disliked RS, that is fine. However, what's to say they couldn't improve it?
If I had a dollar for every topic or post I've seen about RS remakes and how much people want these or expect these to be made, I'd be rich. It's as requested as GS remakes were last generation. And still, we had nay-sayers who doubted those would happen. It's easier to remake an older Pokemon game than to make a brand new game with a new region, new Pokemon, characters etc. And yet, both make plenty of money. I have a question for those against RS remakes. Do you guys want less mainstream Pokemon games? Because the way I see it is, we get our new paired version games that start off the generation. Later we get an improved version of said games. And then we have the remakes of older games. If we suddenly take the remakes away, what fills in the blanks? More crappy spin-off games a lot of us don't care about?
They simply can't make games with new Pokemon any more often than they do. So when they're not giving us a new treat, they reinvent an old one with lots of new features. Nostalgia + new stuff = profit.
And don't try to convince me that they can't remake RS on DS or 3DS and not be able to add a ton of stuff the originals didn't have. I for one just want to be able to play through Hoenn with a time of day system for the first time ever. Physical and special split in my RS games? Yes please. Could they make new areas and add more available Pokemon? With ease. If you disliked RS, that is fine. However, what's to say they couldn't improve it?
I loved RSE.
Thats also why I hope they'll do something better than the same old plain remake deal.
Not saying there wont be, just saying it'd pay off better if they did a new Hoenn game and that they probably figured that out themselves. Gotta redo the whole region into new graphics anyway, so why not improve it along the way :B
If I was making these games I think it'd also be a more fun way to do it, but thats just me right?
Thats also why I hope they'll do something better than the same old plain remake deal.
Not saying there wont be, just saying it'd pay off better if they did a new Hoenn game and that they probably figured that out themselves. Gotta redo the whole region into new graphics anyway, so why not improve it along the way :B
If I was making these games I think it'd also be a more fun way to do it, but thats just me right?
How was it made with a new forme in mind? Think about it - Kyurem represents wuju, which is the absence of Yin and Yang and absolute zero, which is the absence of heat. Thus, Kyurem's design makes perfect sense when you think of it like that and how it relates to Reshiram and Zekrom - Reshiram has the element of Fire which is an ancient symbol of life. Zekrom has the element of electricity, which is a modern symbol of life. Both have the power to give us energy (thus life) and to destroy - like how each individual human has yin and yang. Kyurem, being wuju, has no yin and yang - thus, no energy.Metalizard said:
Also, if Kyurem was designed to have an alternate forme, why was it not programmed into Black and White? After all, Meloetta will be released after Grey, so why was Meloetta's other forms included in BW but not Kyurem's? The "Because Kyurem is a version mascot and Meloetta isn't" argument is silly and without foundation - after all, Shaymin wasn't a version mascot and its Sky forme was excluded from Diamond and Pearl - same with Rotom and its forms. GameFreak including Meloetta's Pirouette forme in Black and White is obviously them trying to avoid the compatibility problems that plagued Diamond, Pearl and PBR.
As for Grey adding something new. Well of course it's bound too - how about fitting Kyurem into Reshiram and Zekrom's story? Rayquaza didn't receive a new form and its inclusion into Groudon and Kyogre's story was really good.
As another user has pointed out, Groudon and Kyogre have a base stat total of 670, whereas Rayquaza's is 680. It's not much of a difference, but it is a difference. As for Cobalion; I honestly used to think it would have been better if GameFreak reworked Black and White's story to be about the Sacred Swordsmen as opposed to shoe-horning Kyurem into the Reshiram and Zekrom story. However, now that Kyurem has been announced as the main star of the movie (After all, it's not Cobalion & The Sacred Swordsmen VS Kyurem) I have been convinced that Kyurem will be the mascot.Dark Void said:
Ryu Shoji said:
Are you really gonna tell me that this disfigured, old piece of meat is supposed to be our version mascot for the 3rd game?
Don't get me wrong, I like it, but there's just no way... this design just screams "I'll have a new better forme!"...
I'm kinda tired of seeing people trying to connect Meloetta to Kyurem as if there was any relation... So what if Meloetta's both formes are in BW? How does that affect the possibility of them giving Kyurem a new forme exclusive to Grey?
You're right here, I admit...
Still, for me, it's simple:
So your basis is "I think it looks ugly so it'll have a prettier new forme?" Hate to break it to you, but Rayquaza wasn't sexy either. I can easily see it being a mascot despite being asymmetrical. When I asked "How was it made with a new forme in mind?" I didn't mean personal opinions - I mean actual solid in-game prompts.
As for your other points. The existence of the God Stone in Black and White actually proves my point more - GameFreak obviously placed it in the game as they know they will be basing Grey on Black and White's engine, so it's easier for them to programme it in, but only make it obtainable in Grey. In regard to the base stat totals - Groudon and Kyogre have lower base stats than Rayquaza; that much has already been stated before.
It affects the possibility because Meloetta will not be available before Grey is released and GameFreak obviously knew that when they made Black and White. Meloetta's Pirouette forme was more than likely added in because GameFreak know they cocked up with Generation VI by having Diamond, Pearl and Pokémon Battle Revolution unable to show Giratina, Shaymin, Rotom and Pichu's new forms. Otherwise, why didn't GameFreak just leave the Pirouette form for Pokémon Grey, like Sky Forme Shaymin?Metalizard said:
As for your other points. The existence of the God Stone in Black and White actually proves my point more - GameFreak obviously placed it in the game as they know they will be basing Grey on Black and White's engine, so it's easier for them to programme it in, but only make it obtainable in Grey. In regard to the base stat totals - Groudon and Kyogre have lower base stats than Rayquaza; that much has already been stated before.