Discussion 2018 Rotation and Important Trainers
- Thread starter rayquazatopaz34
- Start date
Firstly Id like to say your analysis' tend to be fairly fact-based, especially with the lack of a rotation announcement meaning something big. However, I think Evolutions is far too big a jump, only because next year that means they either rotate JUST evolutions, or go into the sun and moon era, which makes absolutely no sense. However, Something is to be said for the massive amount of SM cards we are getting, not to mention a Legendary treasures-like set already being announced. I like to think theyll rotate to Generations onwards, since it gets rid of the "break" (BREAKthrough and BREAKpoint) sets, while leaving a more or less seamless integration into the next format, despite cutting the break era in half. generations is a useless set, but it offers the opportunity to rotate 4 sets next year, by getting rid of all of XY without having too many or too few sets. While rotating PRC-AOR makes sense, next year would be the rest of XY (BKT-STS/EVO) which is about 6 sets. Of course they can leave out evolutions, but really its all about how fluid TPCI chooses to go with rotation. While i'm sad to see max elixir go for the sake of my Lunala GX deck, I am perfectly fine with seeing Darkrai EX gone for good. Sure some decks arent as bad for the format (greninja BREAK comes to mind) but the more XY gone the better.
While I understand the reasoning for rotating up to evolutions (pesky volcanion, N, and Sycamore) it would be the only tier 1 XY deck left over from rotation if it was GEN on, and even if its simply BKT on, Mega Mewtwo EX and Darkrai EX are shut down too easily by Garb and other decks to do well at all (not to mention mega turbo rotating). Im sure you've already done this, but assess the cards being rotated from PRC-AOR: many of their best cards are used to this day, and frankly I dont even have to list them.
Of course, the lack of an announcement could mean no rotation, which would'nt be the most surprising thing TPCI has ever done. They might just as well abolish Expanded for a year, make standard PRC-, and then reintroduce it after rotating PRC-EVO. of course thats a completely baseless assumption as to what TPCI would do without a rotation, but the possibility is there. Im not sure how rotation works in Japan, but The Best Of XY might keep staples in the next format, which almost never happens since they rotate after entire generations I believe. So there is evidence to support no rotation at all, but im not sure if abolishing expanded would really happen. Of course that just leaves the door open for more silly combinations (which could be healthy) but more often than not will lead to disgusting decks such as Deciduplume, and AOR eeveelutions abuse of good stage ones (golisopod GX, Noivern GX, etc).
I think it can be one of five different options.
No rotation
Breakthrough-On
Generations/Fates Collide-On
Evolutions-On
Sun and Moon-On
I don't know if Pokebeach will allow bets but I have no idea what it will be but if it were Breakthrough-On, we would know it already.
Evolutions-On would be really deep but it keeps the game inline with Sun and Moon, which has a heavy focus on Gen 1 Pokemon so it seems like a good cutoff point before the new block. Naturally, they could not have a rotation next year and then rotate to the Sun and Moon sets that don't reference Pokemon-EX anymore. We don't know what they are doing with the game right now but Sun and Moon is just too different a game from what BW and XY were so if they want to slow the game down to better support the new style of play, they either have to rotate up to Evolutions, which will remove Professor Sycamore from the game or so a smaller rotation but ban a lot of cards. BW and XY just aren't compatible with the game. We don't need Xerneas around hitting huge number, or Greninja BREAK sniping off 60 HP Basics trying to evolve. Evolutions-On means they don't have to watch for what could break the game later on down the line.
We're talking about another year of XY cards in the format and I think that's too long. They should just cut their losses and move on. The players will adapt. This also isn't the first time we had less than four or five sets in a format.
Last edited:
Guys, let's look at the last few rotations, based on this Google Drive file (Otaku posted somewhere else): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eMFMtKI4WwwEAqrcQn521vgV2EfK0xiaPi4iBJbKrHg/edit#gid=0
I'm only gonna see BW-On, because it's the start of the modern era of TCG.
BW-On was the 2012/2013 rotation. The start of a new block on this modern era always begins with it's base set. Nothing really surprising here.
NXD-On was the 2013/2014 rotation. A new mini-block started with NXD and the new EX Pokémon. Yeah.
BCR-On was the 2014/2015 rotation. A new mini-block again? Some would argue that Plasma was it's own block, but the Ace Spec mechanic started here first. Also marks the beginning of the BW2 stuff appearing (like grown-up Bianca and Cheren).
XY-On was the 2015/2016 rotation. Nothing surprising.
PCL-On is our current format, 2016/2017. I will argue that it's the beginning of another new block, with the Ancient Trait and the tradeoff of Secret Pokémon cards for Secret Item cards.
(I may be wrong with some of this information here, since the BW/start and middle of XY eras are kind of on a blur on my head. My bad!)
It's really hard for them to rotate out BKT, being the first set of the BREAK era. There's nothing really gamebreaking on BKT on Hoopa-EX or Shaymin-EX levels, anyway.
You also COULD argue that they may rotate all of the BREAK sets, going EVO-On. That's a possibility, and on an ideal world they would match the japanese rotation and this new banlist would take care of some No-Fun Allowed cards like Seismitoad-EX or the Night March guys. Also that's not going to happen.
Kind of unrelated thoughts:
I'm only gonna see BW-On, because it's the start of the modern era of TCG.
BW-On was the 2012/2013 rotation. The start of a new block on this modern era always begins with it's base set. Nothing really surprising here.
NXD-On was the 2013/2014 rotation. A new mini-block started with NXD and the new EX Pokémon. Yeah.
BCR-On was the 2014/2015 rotation. A new mini-block again? Some would argue that Plasma was it's own block, but the Ace Spec mechanic started here first. Also marks the beginning of the BW2 stuff appearing (like grown-up Bianca and Cheren).
XY-On was the 2015/2016 rotation. Nothing surprising.
PCL-On is our current format, 2016/2017. I will argue that it's the beginning of another new block, with the Ancient Trait and the tradeoff of Secret Pokémon cards for Secret Item cards.
(I may be wrong with some of this information here, since the BW/start and middle of XY eras are kind of on a blur on my head. My bad!)
It's really hard for them to rotate out BKT, being the first set of the BREAK era. There's nothing really gamebreaking on BKT on Hoopa-EX or Shaymin-EX levels, anyway.
You also COULD argue that they may rotate all of the BREAK sets, going EVO-On. That's a possibility, and on an ideal world they would match the japanese rotation and this new banlist would take care of some No-Fun Allowed cards like Seismitoad-EX or the Night March guys. Also that's not going to happen.
Kind of unrelated thoughts:
We also should be looking out for the breaking point of the Sun/Moon sets, like how it happened with NXD, BCR and PCL (and BKT obviously). I think the Ultra-Beasts will take a big role on that? Then, in a really long time, rotation should be looking like:
SM1
SM2
SM3
Shining Legends
And SM4 is whatever the UBs will give us that's going to break (heh) the convention.
SM1
SM2
SM3
Shining Legends
And SM4 is whatever the UBs will give us that's going to break (heh) the convention.
Evolutions on sounds extremely interesting, but I think TPCI would still find a way to balance the game to make XY obsolete. If we use the assumption that its BKT-, I would bet a Broken time space reprint is in the works. SM4 is the most perfect timing for this, that if all they revealed from the set was BTS I wouldnt even complain. In fact, If there was no rotation, but just BTS I wouldnt care. It would make almost all EX's useless, as stage twos would naturally be better. Breaks that saw no play would begin to be played, GX's that were too slow, etc. However BTS reprint isnt the discussion here.
I think we need to see what kind of format were left with if it is EVO-. While all the pesky XY cards are gone, we now have to deal with a massive influx of Garbodors, Espeon, and who knows what else. I'm no expert, but I'm unsure how healthy it is to only have 4 playable sets, which worries me. While the format wouldnt be broken, it would be stale, at least until SM4.
Historically speaking, BW lasted for approximately 4 years in the standard format. XY has been around for about 3 years, so I would argue TPCI thinks XY has been around "too long", unless they also believe that the format needs a good refresher like so many of us do.
PMJ
Silhouette Gloom of the Sundown Lands
Forum Head
Articles Head
Elite Member
Advanced Member
Member
I posted detailed reasons why it's going to be BKT-on (and nothing else) in another thread. Pokemon rotates blocks. Ancient Traits are going and that's enough for three or four sets (I can't remember which). This is normal, just like every rotation has been.
The only times Pokemon has gone off this standard has been the emergency rotation, and then when BW-on or whatever it was got repeated (no rotation).
Next year is gonna be BKT-on, 2019 is gonna be SM-on, and 2020 is gonna be SM4-on. SM4 is going to introduce some new game mechanic--likely dealing with the Ultra Beasts, since they debut in that set--and that's going to be the new rotation mark for 2020.
The only times Pokemon has gone off this standard has been the emergency rotation, and then when BW-on or whatever it was got repeated (no rotation).
Next year is gonna be BKT-on, 2019 is gonna be SM-on, and 2020 is gonna be SM4-on. SM4 is going to introduce some new game mechanic--likely dealing with the Ultra Beasts, since they debut in that set--and that's going to be the new rotation mark for 2020.
Garbodor is only good right now because of how Item decks are. This is only true because of the cards in XY. Vs Seeker, Max Elixir, Fighting Fury Belt and Float Stone go away and decks become more Supporter focused to compensate. That is at least ten cards for most decks so Garbodor naturally become weaker as the game become more setup base. The game will stabilize and new decks will come out. There are only a handful of Mega Evolution Pokemon around and BREAKs that could see play with Evolutions-On. Basic Pokemon are left in check and could be made better because of Choice Band to compete. They can better design cards to support Sun and Moon cards. There are many decks that can be made with Evolutions-On.
I think some of you are forgetting one important thing: Pokemon Inc. is a business. Unless there's something inherently game-breaking about a set, they're not going to rotate it out when it isn't even a year old. That'd be an absolutely idiotic business move. Try telling li'l Billy that his cards are now worthless because "the game needs to be slower" or whatever.
Rotation will likely be BREAKthrough - on so whatever is leaving from Primal Clash, Double Crisis, Roaring Skies, and Ancient Origins. Plus whatever promos they decide to remove
And as such, they want to sell their newest product since no one is buy these older sets.
Then why don't they rotate to the latest ~4 sets every year?
They do what they want. There is a reason why they aren't telling us so its going to be something we don't expect.
While i am still concerned about a stale format, I am slowly being convinced an evolutions format wouldnt be the worst thing ever. I Would love to see plenty of variety, and hopefully a strong return of stage twos. However, whatever TPCI chooses will be interesting considering the lack of an announcement.
Having a Evolutions-On format would allow them to reset Standard. All of the overpowered and staple cards are gone and they no longer have to compete with BW/XY for card strength. They did this a bit with Garbodor to see how the players would react. They could have made the damage 10x but it wouldn't have been good enough (I think it would have been fine) and 30x would have been too good despite it being their go to number for scaling. With the good stuff gone, they can better balance and adjust the game going into a Sun and Moon on format. They can fix the balance of power between EX/GX Pokemon and non EX/GX Pokemon without worrying about breaking Darkrai-EX because of the new GX it's getting.
I honestly think there are really only three options: No rotation, Breakthrough on, Sun and Moon on. Japan rotates in blocks. If the US rotates Evolutions on (or even Generations on), I think that makes the two rotation blocks far too dissimilar. To be perfectly honest, I am not even convinced it will be Breakthrough on for this exact same reason. Personally, I think we are either having no rotation or SUM on even though everyone and their dog seems to think BKT on is the odds on favorite.
The only part that concerns me is the BEST OF XY, as it seems to extend the XY staple's lifetime, unless Im wrong and they are also going to be rotated. Either way, the existence of the set at all seems to signify that in Japan, itll be as if rotation never even happened. If this is the case, then that means the chance of no rotation creeps closer and closer. It definetly worries me, as this format needs a good rotation. TPCI may have done a good job of phasing out staples, but there is still plenty of work to be done. It also must be acknowledged that PRC-AOR were temporarily put back into print, meaning that either it was a money grab (most likely) or it was so newer players could access some older staples before they became completely inaccessible.
To respond more directly, evolutions- on makes more sense than sun and moon on, because worst case scenario TPCI just rotates one set next year, evolutions. Evolutions added barely anything to the game, and wouldnt be a big deal to keep around. Rotating all the up to SM means that we are losing 9 sets, which is an immensely huge number that I think not even the Pokemon company would attempt. In comparison, 8 sets being rotated with 1 XY set left seems somewhat more justifiable.
So, I know that this thread is mainly talking about Standard rotation, but who has thought about expanded rotation? Especially with no changes to expanded this past year, are we do for a heavily revamped expanded of XY-on, or do you think that might just take a chunk of B&W out of the mix?
IF expanded is to rotate (which it could; depends on what TPCI wants to see in expanded), I think it will either be rotated up to XY, or just up to NEX or BCR. Mostly because these are some major expansions, and doesnt really get rid of too much, while also narrowing down some options. The biggest issue with expanded is the insane amount of lock-type decks, but they dont even lie in BW to be perfectly honest. Yes, while Archeops NVI is very prevalent, it would not be good without the maxie engine. In a similar way, rotating BW would not get rid of toad, trevenent, or vileplume. In my opinion, the sets within expanded are fine, its a matter of creating a ban list. My ban list would go as follows:
Archeops (NVI)
Trevenent (XY)
Seismitoad EX (FUF)
Vileplume (AOR)
hypnotoxic laser (?)
I put laser up there since the ability to put a pokemon to sleep through an item is far too good, and paired with some of the pokemon above, is just unhealthy for the game. Sure I could have listed staple XY cards to make sure players use different strategies (yveltal EX, darkrai EX, Shaymin EX, etc) but that would just be silly, and is why the standard format exists.