Prime Catcher, Master Ball, Hero's Cape, Neo Upper Energy and now those two.
50 Cards Revealed from “Wild Force” and “Cyber Judge,” Including Tera Pokemon, ACE SPEC, Illustration Rares!
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
- Start date
this was already clear as they both come from their decks released in Japan.
Can’t complain about the raichu’s
Taking a particular interest in Valiant there. Future Box with Xatu/Iron Crown, Crypto's, attach with Xatu, you're swinging for 200+.
Metagross is not great, but Metang is a different story. It's similar to Magnezone from Astral Radiance, but a Stage 1 so better.
Raichu could be interesting. Needs more spread options to be good though.
Similar to its VGC counterpart, Wugtrio continues to disappoint.
Gengar is very interesting. Discarding energy is one thing, but no deck other than maybe Roaring Moon plays anything to counteract that effect. The ability doesn't stop Charizard or Mirage Gate or really any major form of energy acceleration, but it's still so cool to see it do what it do.
Shiftry is kinda meh. Not much use to having the first attack, sure it slows down evolution decks, but by the time you can get off that attack, everything that it's good into they're off to the races.
Don't be fooled by Feraligatr. it may seem really good on the surface, hitting for 280 ideally, but fact that it's a stage 2, can't attack multiple turns in a row, and damages itself in order to deal that big damage is enough in my mind to steer away from it.
Whimsicott has some interesting use cases. There aren't many grass types that are any good right now, despite being the simple counter to Charizard, so there aren't many good uses for healing a Grass type, but there's still more to be seen and we could get an absolutely nuts Grass deck.
Relicanth is not good right now. As far as I am aware, there are no cards with pre-evolutions that have insane attacks, so there's no real use case for it.
Incineroar seems absolutely nuts to me. It has the same effect as Trashalanche Garbodor on the brain in that your opponent won't want to bench Pokemon in order to keep that attack cost high, but what good is not having benched Pokemon if you need them in order to run efficiently? It also deals non-insignificant damage with the 240+Burn, technically dealing 260, 280 on a prayer of no switch-out and a tails.
Farigiraf is a gnarly one as well. You could hypothetically accelerate the 3 energy via Gardevoir ex while it's still a Girafarig, evolve, then start to wallop. It isn't the best attacker in the world, but stopping damage from these big Rule Box paradox Pokemon could be useful.
Roaring Moon and Koraidon make me want to believe that Ancient Box will be a thing, but only 10 extra per Ancient card isn't enough, and Koraidon only deals a max of 180. With other Ancients, it could work, but those alone aren't doing it favors.
The rest of the single prize Paradoxes don't feel like they got much going for them.
Order Box seems like a really good way to end Turn 1. Simply get 2 dead cards when you feel like your opponent wants to Iono turn 2.
Hand Clippers is another nice Hand Lock addition.
Emergency Board is nice, only a real decent thing against Tsareena ex, and we all know how mediocre that turned out to be.
Bianca leads me to believe the game designers are thinking Tsareena is going to be nuts at rotation. It's not, we still have a happy and healthy Charizard.
Eri, despite me not thinking that's that character's name in the game (I could be completely wrong), is more Hand Lock. Stall decks are eating good tonight.
Drum and Bot aren't that good. Play Prime Catcher.
Raichu could be interesting. Needs more spread options to be good though.
Similar to its VGC counterpart, Wugtrio continues to disappoint.
Gengar is very interesting. Discarding energy is one thing, but no deck other than maybe Roaring Moon plays anything to counteract that effect. The ability doesn't stop Charizard or Mirage Gate or really any major form of energy acceleration, but it's still so cool to see it do what it do.
Shiftry is kinda meh. Not much use to having the first attack, sure it slows down evolution decks, but by the time you can get off that attack, everything that it's good into they're off to the races.
Don't be fooled by Feraligatr. it may seem really good on the surface, hitting for 280 ideally, but fact that it's a stage 2, can't attack multiple turns in a row, and damages itself in order to deal that big damage is enough in my mind to steer away from it.
Whimsicott has some interesting use cases. There aren't many grass types that are any good right now, despite being the simple counter to Charizard, so there aren't many good uses for healing a Grass type, but there's still more to be seen and we could get an absolutely nuts Grass deck.
Relicanth is not good right now. As far as I am aware, there are no cards with pre-evolutions that have insane attacks, so there's no real use case for it.
Incineroar seems absolutely nuts to me. It has the same effect as Trashalanche Garbodor on the brain in that your opponent won't want to bench Pokemon in order to keep that attack cost high, but what good is not having benched Pokemon if you need them in order to run efficiently? It also deals non-insignificant damage with the 240+Burn, technically dealing 260, 280 on a prayer of no switch-out and a tails.
Farigiraf is a gnarly one as well. You could hypothetically accelerate the 3 energy via Gardevoir ex while it's still a Girafarig, evolve, then start to wallop. It isn't the best attacker in the world, but stopping damage from these big Rule Box paradox Pokemon could be useful.
Roaring Moon and Koraidon make me want to believe that Ancient Box will be a thing, but only 10 extra per Ancient card isn't enough, and Koraidon only deals a max of 180. With other Ancients, it could work, but those alone aren't doing it favors.
The rest of the single prize Paradoxes don't feel like they got much going for them.
Order Box seems like a really good way to end Turn 1. Simply get 2 dead cards when you feel like your opponent wants to Iono turn 2.
Hand Clippers is another nice Hand Lock addition.
Emergency Board is nice, only a real decent thing against Tsareena ex, and we all know how mediocre that turned out to be.
Bianca leads me to believe the game designers are thinking Tsareena is going to be nuts at rotation. It's not, we still have a happy and healthy Charizard.
Eri, despite me not thinking that's that character's name in the game (I could be completely wrong), is more Hand Lock. Stall decks are eating good tonight.
Drum and Bot aren't that good. Play Prime Catcher.
One funky usecase of Relicanth is that it lets Giratina VStar attack with Shred instead of Lost Impact. The other is that it lets Farigiraf use the Girafarig attack. Otherwise, yeah, not much to do.
Bianca sort of helps with Gardevoir because you can hypothethically Psychic Embrace something to near death, heal it with Bianca, then attach more energy to it. However, both attackers that uses energy amount are all rotating (Zacian V and Arcana Shine Gardevoir), so it will depend if Gardy gets a replacement for them.
Troll decks n control decks. Just think put 2 great tusk in deck as ur only pokemon. Then use shaver and item box n such go first and if they greedy enough n u mulligan 25 to 30 times u could discard alot of their deck then turn 2 discard even more with various ways . Won't work alot but funny when somone falls for it.
No Gengar ex SIR ?
Ik prime catcher is just absurdly broken, but would the future ace spec be useful at all in a future deck instead?
That’s possible. Prime catcher is broken card but there is boss’s orders for gusting. even if it’s supportter it still can do the job
That Future Ace Spec is completely busted. The only Future Pokemon that might not prefer it over Prime Catcher is Iron Hands, since you wanna gust to keep taking 2 prizes each turn, and you already have Electric Generator + Double Turbo Energy anyways to charge up Iron Hands.
JOYBOY IS BACK
Interesting Pokemon revealed, saw incineroar ex and reminded me we haven’t had a primerina card in like, 4 years or so
Interesting Pokemon revealed, saw incineroar ex and reminded me we haven’t had a primerina card in like, 4 years or so
Wowsers! There are a lot of cards making their secondary type debut in this set.
The cards that stand out the most from this bunch to me are Incineroar ex and a few trainers.
Incineroar ex can have some really solid efficiency against a few decks. 260 damage for 1 energy is rather powerful on its own, even if that isn't necessarily hitting Charizard numbers. I don't see this outdoing Charizard any time in soon in the stage 2 attacker role, but it at least looks like it can hold its own.
I am, however, disappointed that SIT Litten needs 2 Fire Energy for its Reprisal attack (20x Damage Counter on this Pokemon), as that would be really cool to tech Relicanth with if the cost was more to liking. Maybe you still do that.
Order Box will probably only see play in specific decks, namely control/stall. Any other deck running Order Box definitely wouldn't run more than 1, and it isn't that searchable going first.
Hand Clippers isn't quite Judge/Iono against Tina and Lost Box, but seems like it will at least be a meta call at some point. Limiting an opponent's opening hand to 5 likely has too mixed of results, especially since the extra cards are discarded. Once again, another very useful item for Control/Stall in general.
Eri seems, once again, like another useful card for Control/Stall. Sydney is rotating, so now you can pick and choose if discarding items is to your liking. Eri + Hand Clippers feels like a brutal combination for control decks.
Control's got some new toys, but I still question how much impact Echoing Horn rotating has on its success.
The 30 HP requirement for Emergency Board is likely almost never coming up, but at least we have something of a tool that reduces retreat that isn't limited to stage 2s. We also have a tool searching stadium to go with it right now. The only thing I see against it is that we already have a stadium that can reduce cost of basics, so I don't know if there are decks that want a more powerful stadium and this tool instead of just using Beach Court. Well, at least the option is there, and the option is available to stage 1/2s.
Quick thoughts on the rest:
Metagross sucks; Metal Maker Metang needs Cryptomaniac for anything of consistency, and that burns your supporter for turn. Don't like it.
Raichu seems like too much work, and its attack cost begs for Reversal Energy. Also shut down by Manaphy.
Wugtrio ex's Troika Pump is a good niche sniper, but Wugtrio cannot hit above 180 and you don't want a stage 1 as a niche attacker. You would need to build it as a control attacker deck, and I don't trust that.
Gengar doesn't do enough damage, and as a stage 2 control pokemon, Pidgeot ex is much better for stage 2 control.
Shiftry's Expelling Tornado leaves too many benched pokemon in play for the work you put in getting up Shiftry.
Relicanth doesn't really have any real standout use case right now in Standard, but I imagine has some very solid uses in Expanded and GLC Fighting.
Feraligatr would be really cool if we had any consistent way of powering it up multiple times over a game. 280 is a great number. 2 Water Energy isn't. That leaves you Reversal Energy only. This once again points back to "Neo Upper Energy would have been much cooler if it wasn't an Ace Spec."
Relicanth doesn't really seem like it has much a use case now, but probably has good stuff in Expanded and GLC Fighting.
Farigiraf's basic ex immunity is nice, but that attack cost sucks. We are also expecting a meta where Charizard ex plays a large part. I think Gardevoir's got enough problems to solve that it wouldn't bother with this either.
Roaring Moon doesn't do enough damage. Koraidon is too much setup for 180 damage.
I want to like Great Tusk since mill 4 is solid, but we don't have as good of a pool of cards to work with as Durant, particularly in that we don't have anything like Yveltal and the meta Yveltal was good in. Counter Catcher mill is the best thing going for it, and I don't feel that'll be enough. Out of anything I don't think stands out, this is my favorite.
They are setting up the idea of using Future Paradox attacks to move around and accelerate energy and I gotta say, that's pretty slow in general.
Bianca seems way too niche, especially when we already have both Turo and Penny.
If you are any Ancient Paradox deck, a card that lets you draw a few is nothing compared to Prime Catcher. Don't play Drum of Awakening.
Reboot Bot attaching 1 maximum to each pokemon, instead of 1 energy to anything per pokemon, is deflating. I think everyone and their mother wants Colress Machine for Future Paradox at this point.
The art for the IRs and SIRs all look great this set, with my favorites being Iron Leaves, Iron Crown, Flutter Mane, and Shiftry.
Incineroar ex can have some really solid efficiency against a few decks. 260 damage for 1 energy is rather powerful on its own, even if that isn't necessarily hitting Charizard numbers. I don't see this outdoing Charizard any time in soon in the stage 2 attacker role, but it at least looks like it can hold its own.
I am, however, disappointed that SIT Litten needs 2 Fire Energy for its Reprisal attack (20x Damage Counter on this Pokemon), as that would be really cool to tech Relicanth with if the cost was more to liking. Maybe you still do that.
Order Box will probably only see play in specific decks, namely control/stall. Any other deck running Order Box definitely wouldn't run more than 1, and it isn't that searchable going first.
Hand Clippers isn't quite Judge/Iono against Tina and Lost Box, but seems like it will at least be a meta call at some point. Limiting an opponent's opening hand to 5 likely has too mixed of results, especially since the extra cards are discarded. Once again, another very useful item for Control/Stall in general.
Eri seems, once again, like another useful card for Control/Stall. Sydney is rotating, so now you can pick and choose if discarding items is to your liking. Eri + Hand Clippers feels like a brutal combination for control decks.
Control's got some new toys, but I still question how much impact Echoing Horn rotating has on its success.
The 30 HP requirement for Emergency Board is likely almost never coming up, but at least we have something of a tool that reduces retreat that isn't limited to stage 2s. We also have a tool searching stadium to go with it right now. The only thing I see against it is that we already have a stadium that can reduce cost of basics, so I don't know if there are decks that want a more powerful stadium and this tool instead of just using Beach Court. Well, at least the option is there, and the option is available to stage 1/2s.
Quick thoughts on the rest:
Metagross sucks; Metal Maker Metang needs Cryptomaniac for anything of consistency, and that burns your supporter for turn. Don't like it.
Raichu seems like too much work, and its attack cost begs for Reversal Energy. Also shut down by Manaphy.
Wugtrio ex's Troika Pump is a good niche sniper, but Wugtrio cannot hit above 180 and you don't want a stage 1 as a niche attacker. You would need to build it as a control attacker deck, and I don't trust that.
Gengar doesn't do enough damage, and as a stage 2 control pokemon, Pidgeot ex is much better for stage 2 control.
Shiftry's Expelling Tornado leaves too many benched pokemon in play for the work you put in getting up Shiftry.
Relicanth doesn't really have any real standout use case right now in Standard, but I imagine has some very solid uses in Expanded and GLC Fighting.
Feraligatr would be really cool if we had any consistent way of powering it up multiple times over a game. 280 is a great number. 2 Water Energy isn't. That leaves you Reversal Energy only. This once again points back to "Neo Upper Energy would have been much cooler if it wasn't an Ace Spec."
Relicanth doesn't really seem like it has much a use case now, but probably has good stuff in Expanded and GLC Fighting.
Farigiraf's basic ex immunity is nice, but that attack cost sucks. We are also expecting a meta where Charizard ex plays a large part. I think Gardevoir's got enough problems to solve that it wouldn't bother with this either.
Roaring Moon doesn't do enough damage. Koraidon is too much setup for 180 damage.
I want to like Great Tusk since mill 4 is solid, but we don't have as good of a pool of cards to work with as Durant, particularly in that we don't have anything like Yveltal and the meta Yveltal was good in. Counter Catcher mill is the best thing going for it, and I don't feel that'll be enough. Out of anything I don't think stands out, this is my favorite.
They are setting up the idea of using Future Paradox attacks to move around and accelerate energy and I gotta say, that's pretty slow in general.
Bianca seems way too niche, especially when we already have both Turo and Penny.
If you are any Ancient Paradox deck, a card that lets you draw a few is nothing compared to Prime Catcher. Don't play Drum of Awakening.
Reboot Bot attaching 1 maximum to each pokemon, instead of 1 energy to anything per pokemon, is deflating. I think everyone and their mother wants Colress Machine for Future Paradox at this point.
The art for the IRs and SIRs all look great this set, with my favorites being Iron Leaves, Iron Crown, Flutter Mane, and Shiftry.
I just want to point out that, while a practical way of using Relicanth for versatility, the only matchup where Giratina would want to switch back and forth from Shred to another attack is the one matchup where you also ironically wouldn't want to put down Relicanth: Stall. You also now have the card stuck in your deck for every other matchup. Neat idea, but I don't think Giratina ultimately gets benefit from this.
All the paradox SIRs revealed look amazing! Is there a possibility Incineroar or Gengar get SIR treatment or is that unlikely?
