Discussion Alolan Muk

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Electric Delivery Driver from Washington
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In Standard, Garbotoxin is rotating, and in Expanded, Hex Maniac was just banned. In light of those, some (such as myself) have suggested Alolan Muk might see a rise in usage. It does only affect Basic Pokémon, but there are a lot of potent Basics with abilities in both formats, so I want to discuss what potential applications it could see in the future and if it's worth using.

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Yeah it will definitely see play in the future, not as much but it can still disrupt many cards. However most of the cards that are good at the moment that have abilities arent basics. So until there is an increase there will be very little play.

Something like Glaceon GX is way better, as it can attack well.
It only blocks your opponent so I definitely rather Glaceon.
 
aPOLLo said:
Yeah it will definitely see play in the future, not as much but it can still disrupt many cards. However most of the cards that are good at the moment that have abilities arent basics. So until there is an increase there will be very little play.

Something like Glaceon GX is way better, as it can attack well.
It only blocks your opponent so I definitely rather Glaceon.
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Glaceon is only really viable for water decks that play DCE, and I feel like it won't see an increase in play at all for that reason. Alolan Muk can be used in any deck that does not rely on basic abilities, but like you said, most good abilities are on stage 1's, so I think it won't see much play either. Ability lock just isn't gonna be a thing in Standard until basic abilities become more relevant or a new locker is printed.
 
zmaster0987 said:
Glaceon is only really viable for water decks that play DCE, and I feel like it won't see an increase in play at all for that reason. Alolan Muk can be used in any deck that does not rely on basic abilities, but like you said, most good abilities are on stage 1's, so I think it won't see much play either. Ability lock just isn't gonna be a thing in Standard until basic abilities become more relevant or a new locker is printed.
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Yeah, glaceon can work with more than just water types but your right.
 
I feel like turn 1 glaceon is going to be the better restriction deck post rotation and I'm suspecting Glaceon will continue being pretty solid with Ninja. I believe Alohan Muk is actually really good and shuts down several metta viable basic pokemon in the format, like Tapu Lele GX/ baby hoopa if you aren't playing non gx attackers/ eevee/ Rayquaza GX/ Dawn Wings Necrozma GX/ Marshadow GX/ Xurkitree GX/ Koko GX or Articuno GX amongst others that should see play. So yes, I do think Alohan Muk has value post rotation, especially you play a deck that takes prizes early and are trying to stop your opponent from making a comeback.
 
Some Zoroark decks will probably play it. Not sure yet if it will be absolutely necessary, only the post rotation meta will tell.
 
I see it being used in specific scenarios. The new Stakatacka-GX coming out blocks 10 damage not just to the active, but to the bench as well, which means with only 2 Stakatacka's out the promo Tapu Koko isn't going to do jack to any Ultra Beast deck. They could play Alolan Muk in spread decks to ignore this but that's an evolution line in a deck comfortably using mostly basic pokemon so I don't know how clunky it will be.

But in general, it will stop any mid-late game Tapu Lele-GXs that might grab a Guzma for game or unbrick themselves with Cynthia or something.
 
I think in expanded Alolan Muk will see much more play with Hex Maniac being banned, this indirectly buffs a lot of cards that were already good like road block sudowoodo, so without turning off abilities sudowoodo single-handedly cripples sky field decks.
 
The big thing with alolan muk is you can splash it in a deck like zoro/everything and because your can play ditto in such decks you dont need grimer
 
Alolan Muk will become an absolute necessity in most Expanded Zoroark decks, since without Hex Maniac, they have no way of countering Roadblock Sudowoodo and/or Aegislash-EX/Xurkitree-GX

However, I don't think it's very viable in SUM-on Standard, mostly because Float Stone is rotating - that hefty four-retreat cost on Muk makes it a prime Guzma/Counter Catcher target, forcing you to rely on getting your own Guzma, Tate & Liza, or any other switch card just to get it out of the Active position. While the ability to shut down the core strategies of decks like Rayquaza and Stakataka is good in itself, I still don't think it's worth the potential liability
 
Timmony_tcg said:
Alolan Muk will become an absolute necessity in most Expanded Zoroark decks, since without Hex Maniac, they have no way of countering Roadblock Sudowoodo and/or Aegislash-EX/Xurkitree-GX

However, I don't think it's very viable in SUM-on Standard, mostly because Float Stone is rotating - that hefty four-retreat cost on Muk makes it a prime Guzma/Counter Catcher target, forcing you to rely on getting your own Guzma, Tate & Liza, or any other switch card just to get it out of the Active position. While the ability to shut down the core strategies of decks like Rayquaza and Stakataka is good in itself, I still don't think it's worth the potential liability
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I agree with this. I mostly had Expanded in mind when posting the thread, mostly because of stuff like Eggs, Aegis/Xurk and Sudo running rampant. SUM-on format, I don't think, needs Ability denial as much, and to me at least it would seem Glaceon and Slaking cover everything relevant in that regard.
 
Timmony_tcg said:
Alolan Muk will become an absolute necessity in most Expanded Zoroark decks, since without Hex Maniac, they have no way of countering Roadblock Sudowoodo and/or Aegislash-EX/Xurkitree-GX

However, I don't think it's very viable in SUM-on Standard, mostly because Float Stone is rotating - that hefty four-retreat cost on Muk makes it a prime Guzma/Counter Catcher target, forcing you to rely on getting your own Guzma, Tate & Liza, or any other switch card just to get it out of the Active position. While the ability to shut down the core strategies of decks like Rayquaza and Stakataka is good in itself, I still don't think it's worth the potential liability
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I think it might be important to remember the differences in how Alolan Muk is used versus how Garbodor w/Garbotoxin (either) has been used. As Alolan Muk is not stopping deck driving Abilities on Evolutions; forcing one Active to stall seems like it would only apply to very select situations. It isn't like when a Garbodor - equipped with something other than Float Stone - is stranded in the Active position, and the opponent can't OHKO it but you can't retreat it.

Another big change is Guzma; you won't be able to fetch Guzma via Tapu Lele-GX, but you probably address that in the deck building phase, anyway. Not the solution you'll always enjoy having handy but Guzma deals with a stranded Alolan Muk. So does Tate & Liza. So, I'm thinking post-rotation we should keep an eye on Alolan Muk in Standard. With Expanded, I'm trying to figure out if it'll be easy just to work around Garbodor in your own deck - well, for certain ones - or to work with Alolan Muk but less Ability denial.

No more Puzzle of Time tricks, but soon we'll have "Smooth Over" Magcargo, which means all "Shuffle from your discard pile into your deck." effects aren't so slow in recycling. If you've got a Zoroark-GX/Magcargo deck, you might still be able to Field Blower your own Tool to restore Abilities, and eventually Eco Arm the three Tools you want back to your deck. Then, when the time is right, Smooth Over a recycled Tool, Trade to draw it, and lock down those Abilities yet again.
 
A Zoroark-GX, Magcargo, Alolan Muk deck post-rotation could be really good. You'd shut off Lele, Diancie, Dawn Wings, Oranguru, and more.
 
I don't see why Alolan Muk won't see more play in Expanded. Before we had ZoroEggs, Zoroark/Seismitoad/Alolan Muk was undoubtedly the Expanded BDIF and it worked well. I'm actually planning to take it to a League Challenge in a couple of weeks, so I'll tell you how that goes if this discussion is still relevant. It should also see more play in Standard as well, but as a surprise tech that can be dropped by surprise whenever you like thanks to the upcoming Ditto Prism Star.
 
I don't really see why muk would see play in expanded, although I understand why it has potential in standard with the lack of ability freeze there, if you're really desperate to run basic ability block in expanded then play silent lab. It is a lot less secure than a muk since it can be blowered away or hit with an enemy stadium, but I find it a lot more valuable since it can be up turn one and also takes up less deck space.
 
Expanded: I'm not sure if Alolan Muk will be played more than Garbotoxin. Garb can put more decks away (Trevenant, Archie's Blastoise, etc) and puts down the same threats A. Muk would, but requires a little bit more than just "evolving and existing".

That and you can run Trashalanche Garbodor if you want to get cute with the techs.

That said, Garbodor usually requires to be played more than a 1-1 line to be considered effective.
 
Blergsid said:
I don't really see why muk would see play in expanded, although I understand why it has potential in standard with the lack of ability freeze there, if you're really desperate to run basic ability block in expanded then play silent lab. It is a lot less secure than a muk since it can be blowered away or hit with an enemy stadium, but I find it a lot more valuable since it can be up turn one and also takes up less deck space.
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Silent Lab isn't a good option for decks that already have a stadium they need to play such as Sky Field or Dimension Valley
 
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