Ancient Origins [8/15, aka Bandit Ring]

Athena said:
I think discussion of what Ancient Traits will or won't be in the set is kind of premature at this point. After all, we've only seen 6 cards from the set in total, and none of those are AT cards anyway.
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^ The best thing to discuss right now is the cards we have, it's a bad idea to speculate and then be disappointed! I'm really loving both Hoopa and Lugia-EX's art more and more, I'm thinking I'll want to get my hands on them for just collection purposes! :p
 
The point I'm trying to get at is that Hoopa EX has already leaked as the center of the set, yet it doesn't have an Ancient Trait. I understand what YOU guys are saying, but the whole point I'm trying to convey is that it is a really strange choice for the Pokemon Company to already be at the point where we know 4 EX's in the set, yet none of them have the signature trait of the set, including Hoopa.
 
Neither of the Rayquaza EXes had a trait at all; only the Megas did. Same with Primal Clash, only the Primal Versions of Kyogre and Groudon had traits, with the EXes being blank. In my 5 minutes of research, I can't actually find a non-Mega EX that has a trait at all. So it shouldn't really be surprising or meaningful that Hoopa EX (or any of the other shown Pokémon EX) doesn't have a trait of any kind (theta or otherwise); it's simply following the precedent that's been set so far since AT mechanic was released.
 
"Oh man an Ace Trainer Card!"
Now we just need a non-clip art version.

No, we're not doing those anymore?
Aw dang.
 
I don't think Ace Trainer will be as much of a staple as people make it seem to be. It's a completely dead card in the beginning turns of the game and the only time you can play it is when you are down on prizes. I'd rather play draw supporters there were a lot less finicky especially in decks where speed is the name of the game. The only type of deck I can see Ace Trainer fitting is decks with large stage 2 lines where in the process of setting up, you will get behind on prizes towards the beginning, and then you can reap the little benefits that Ace Trainer gives you over more consistent draw cards like Shauna/Prof Birch Observations. I'm not saying those cards are better than N, just that Ace Trainer isn't going to replace N as a 4-of in every deck.

I do like the EX artwork themes with the Hoopa Rings bringing out the EX's, I just wish that Eske Yoshinob would stop doing EX artwork, his stuff looks like glossy unproportioned crap, I mean just look at Machamp EX's fingers. I am glad to see Ryota Murayama come back though, his(?) stuff with Groudon, Krogre (PCL) and Rayquaza (RSK) is incredible looking, and Hoopa EX is no exception.
 
GadgetJax said:
The point I'm trying to get at is that Hoopa EX has already leaked as the center of the set, yet it doesn't have an Ancient Trait. I understand what YOU guys are saying, but the whole point I'm trying to convey is that it is a really strange choice for the Pokemon Company to already be at the point where we know 4 EX's in the set, yet none of them have the signature trait of the set, including Hoopa.
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None of the PRC or ROS EXs had Ancient Trait's bar the two Primals and the MRays
 
Guys... can we just stop for a minute... and look at that Virizion... yes we've had good holos before... but that design with the sunset and the birds and the flowers... that is what a holo card should look like. Seriously though that is breath-taking wouldn't put this past the best holo in the entirety of B&W and X&Y.
 
TheStrictNein said:
None of the PRC or ROS EXs had Ancient Trait's bar the two Primals and the MRays
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...which is my point exactly. Primal Kyogre and Groudon were the signature Pokemon of that set and they had the Ancient Trait from that set. Same goes for Mega Rayquaza. What I'm trying to say is that Hoopa doesn't have a Trait, which breaks the trend they've been setting. Besides, wouldn't it be kind of goofy for a set to introduce a new trait excusively for non-EX's after 2 sets passed where the signature EX had one? C'mon, I'm sure at this point I'm making myself clear, right?
 
GadgetJax said:
...which is my point exactly. Primal Kyogre and Groudon were the signature Pokemon of that set and they had the Ancient Trait from that set. Same goes for Mega Rayquaza. What I'm trying to say is that Hoopa doesn't have a Trait, which breaks the trend they've been setting. Besides, wouldn't it be kind of goofy for a set to introduce a new trait excusively for non-EX's after 2 sets passed where the signature EX had one? C'mon, I'm sure at this point I'm making myself clear, right?
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You're missing the point that all of those Pokémon are either Mega Pokémon or Primal Pokémon, not regular Pokémon-EX. Therefore, it's perfectly normal for Hoopa-EX to not have an Ancient Trait. Also, it wouldn't exactly fit perfectly, would it? :p
 
For those interested (or perhaps very bored) here are my thoughts:

Machamp-EX: Some potential but not a lot; successful Fighting-Type Pokémon-EX work because they are fast (single Energy attacks) or have some measure of protection (Omega Barrier) or Mega Evolve into something that has one of these two.

Virizion: Given the performance of similar past cards, I don't see much use here. Giving up an attack to get back to Pokémon from the discard isn't worth it. The second attack isn't fast enough/easily splashed into off-Type decks so it pretty much needs to be in a Grass-Type deck or an Energy Trans deck running four Rainbow Energy. I suppose someone might find a combo to accelerate Energy and intentionally give up a Prize (maybe Milotic from XY: Flashfire) in the hope you can carefully manage the Prize situation to fake being behind while in reality you control the field and will rush in to take the last two Prizes while your opponent has just one left.

Celebi: Has serious potential. Its Ancient Trait means its Ability won't be shut down by Wobbuffet (PHF) though Silent Lab could still be an issue (Garbodor w/Garbotoxin also wouldn't work though I assume it will rotate out soon). Its attack is a bit pricey ([G] instead of [C]) but the spread is damage counter based so it gets around Mountain Ring or similar effects. The Ability is both better and worse than one might think; if the translation is right it triggers whenever Celebi is KOed and not just from damage by an opponent's attack. If you can't stand flips it won't seem good but I remember Focus Band. This could become an interesting opener or stalling tactic, especially for decks that can pay the attack cost without a lot of hassle.

Ace Trainer: Do not like but it might be a good card. Why don't I like it? The principle of "comeback" cards is flawed; if you fall behind why should you have a card tailor made to help you pull ahead or at least make up lost ground? It only makes sense if pulling ahead is more about luck than skill and if that is the case something is wrong with the game. Fix the game so that when I fall behind I realize I deserve it!

Even if one rejects my premise, Prizes are a poor indicator of actual victory until you're about to win; this mechanic has been tried repeatedly and its never worked well because you can give up a Prize to seemingly "fall behind" but then use this kind of card to secure advantage that will lead to you controlling the game. There is also how it tries to "help" the player that is supposedly behind; even after we are finally free of N once again there will be a fear about cultivating a good hand, keeping the game in "throw hand at opponent, play card to refresh, repeat until game over" territory. Cards like Professor Juniper and Professor Sycamore would be good regardless, but one reason the "discard your hand" drawback is so minor is that there is little sense in saving good cards in hand because your opponent is likely to N it away.

Still since it does require you be behind in taking Prizes (ahead in Prizes in play) it simply can't be like N; unless your deck can easily and reliably give up a Prize on your own first turn, your opponent will have to have gone first and pulled off a FTKO (without a donk) to actually enable Ace Trainer on your first turn. Even when it might save your bacon that clause might cost you the game; your opponent could easily have two Prizes left to take, you just one but their field presence makes it clear they'll win the game.

Hoopa-EX: Not so sure about this one; probably a decent deal for a few decks with a solid Ability but the attack is pretty pricey. In a deck making heavy use of Shaymin-EX (ROS) and Sky Field, it will probably be a smart play.

Lugia-EX: Say hello to albino Yveltal-EX. Okay, not a perfect description but better than people claiming its a reprint of Mewtwo-EX or the successor to Mewtwo-EX (as Mewtwo-EX has two Mega Evolutions, said claims got my hopes up until I could actually see the translation). Yveltal-EX was already the successor to Mewtwo-EX, even if it isn't as easy to splash. Lugia-EX won't be able to exploit Weakness but will be able to tap Colorless support, so like Yveltal-EX it will be better than Mewtwo-EX in some ways.

Kyurem-EX: Makes me sad. At least one of the past Kyurem-EX got a discount when it copied an attack from the first Kyurem we got, as its Outrage costs the same [CC] but hit for 30+ instead of 20+. This one copies the once good but now pricey Glaciate attack, which badly needed a lower Energy cost or higher damage output or both. Said Kyurem also did well at a time when we didn't have cards like Mountain Ring to block Bench damage. Icecalibur is an awesome name but a "meh" attack. Too expensive for what it does; not only in terms of damage but adding a stall effect to a "big" attack that by all rights should be at least the foundation of a OHKO combo. We know the "can't attack" effect it places on the opponent's Active is annoying, but also not reliable protection.
 
I think Machamp EX could definitely be in a top tier deck, that's if and its a big if, if it gets a bench sitter that either deals damage to it, or better yet give both active pokemon poison each turn, that way, machamp will be able to live against mega latios with the crobat line (theoretically) and it'll knock out pretty much anything.
 
TokenDuelist said:
Personally, I'd just like one that stops Ancient Traits on EX Pokemon. Ancient Traits being nullified entirely would be awful.
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Well , maybe if it had an effect like Garbotoxin. Delta Evolution just kind of ruins the first turn, and it makes Rayquaza too overpowered. No one's found a sincere counter yet, so I'm keeping my hopes high for something like this in the new set.
 
Why are they reprinting all of the lame pokemon EXs? :/ Neither Kyurem or Lugia are even that good. Hoopa looks really awesome buy I'm not overly sure if it's good. Celebi seems like it could see some play. Overall, I'm not really excited for these releases.
 
Lugia EX is like Mewtwo EX's and Donphan PLS' lovechild! :p

I really like that new Ace Trainer Supporter though. I have a feeling it will replace N once we get it and after N rotates.
 
Athena said:
Neither of the Rayquaza EXes had a trait at all; only the Megas did. Same with Primal Clash, only the Primal Versions of Kyogre and Groudon had traits, with the EXes being blank. In my 5 minutes of research, I can't actually find a non-Mega EX that has a trait at all. So it shouldn't really be surprising or meaningful that Hoopa EX (or any of the other shown Pokémon EX) doesn't have a trait of any kind (theta or otherwise); it's simply following the precedent that's been set so far since AT mechanic was released.
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LOL WAT
Altaria RoR AT
Banette RoR AT
Swelllow RoR AT

>>smoke ribs everyday.
 
Also i like all of these cards.

Machamp; If someone could explain to me how confusion works with this card. Do you flip for confusion even though you heal yourself of the status condition using Crazy Hammer? If so that's straight CRAZY!

Virizion; THIS ART THO i'm really interested in all of the cards that center around how many prizes you have/have taken. (All Night Party, Umbreon, Etc)

Celebi: THIS ART TOO THO also these AT Pokes with ability too are pretty neat. I think someone ask about traits/abilities stopping other traits; I think it's kinda like Ability vs Power, or in this case because we don't have PokePower or PokeBody any more, Ancient Traits. I think it would only be fare to have an trait/ability that could potentially stop other traits, considering Theta Stop Malamar is straight up gonna prevent abilities against it's own self but it's not like these ancient traits are OP yet so why would you need to stop them. The ATs usually only block things against itself not for you or any of your other pokemon who don't have ATs, so for now, i think it can go unchecked, not like we really have any choice in the matter tho :D

Ace Trainer: Playing through the games I always thought "if I were any of these trainers, I definitely would be an Ace Trainer. " So this card hits my taste. I hate to see N back into rotation, but atleast it's a little more tame, and of course it will be a staple, it's way better than Shauna and Colress is about to get the boot.

Hoopa: I imagine there will be a regular Hoopa too in this set, but probably as a non-EX Poke, hopefully with an ancient trait. Also this card is gonna render Winona completely useless in my Colorless M Rayquaza deck. Especially because it does what Winona does without taking the spot of that turns Supporter card. It'll probably be like a very strong Jirachi tho in the deck, because i don't want to free up any Lightning energies for my circle circuit Raichu.

Lugia I like this Mewtwo, he has wings!

Kyurem seriously tho? It's like we HAVE TO have a Kyurem-Ex in every rotation. Give us something cool! Give us a Mawile-ex! Give us and Audino-ex! Hell i'll even take an Onyx Ex or Sableye. I hate that just because Poke'mon isn't popular in the tcg that they excluded from the Ex Treatment. I want more variety, not sure why we haven't gotten it yet.
 
Mithrandir said:
Also i like all of these cards.

Ace Trainer: Playing through the games I always thought "if I were any of these trainers, I definitely would be an Ace Trainer. " So this card hits my taste. I hate to see N back into rotation, but atleast it's a little more tame, and of course it will be a staple, it's way better than Shauna and Colress is about to get the boot.
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I disagree that its better than Shauna. Sure it lets you draw 1 more card and can disrupt your opponent, but you can't play it on the first turn, or any turn where you are up or tied on prizes, locking that card out for 66% of the game potentially. A dead draw supporter is significantly less good than a supporter that will consistently and always net you 5 cards, which isn't terrible, it is just that N and Colress were better, but now that they will rotate out, Shauna is the most consistent shuffle draw that we have.
 
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