In the IceCreamMewScream I run, I run Unfezant to deal with ko's. What I find happening annoyingly often is that when facing TyRam, my opponent will send up a Cyndaquil and pass. The only thing I can do is use Fly, which of course has a 25% chance to fail. If I use Double Freeze, the opponent can just evolve into Quilava, retreat, and Blue Flare. Can anyone think of a good tech that I could use to combat this strategy? It is Mew, and of course I run rainbow, so almost any tech is splashable.
Anti Cyndaquil Tech
- Thread starter alex
- Start date
Why don't you just play Jumpluff? Assuming you have at least 4 benched Pokémon, you can hit them for the 60 damage you will need for the knock out. Jumpluff is also great because it can hit for large amounts of damage for small amounts of energy, and can even use Leaf Guard to prevent OHKOs in a tight situation. Another option is Cinccino, but I prefer Jumpluff. Reshiphlosion is still always going to be a difficult match up for any Mew Variant though, Muk and Crobat Prime might help, not 100% sure, haven't done much testing.
Edit: Celebi, I think that the issue is that he is using Double Freeze from the Mew, so it doesn't hit for weakness. Oh, and I'm also assuming you want to kill the Cyndaquil right?
Edit: Celebi, I think that the issue is that he is using Double Freeze from the Mew, so it doesn't hit for weakness. Oh, and I'm also assuming you want to kill the Cyndaquil right?
Try adding in more N to shuffle away their Quilava then. With Vileplume out, they can't communicate for it, so chances they hit it again are slim.
Reshiphlosion shouldn't really be an issue for a water/Vileplume deck that hits the magic 130HP, though. Just beef up your Vanilluxe line.
Reshiphlosion shouldn't really be an issue for a water/Vileplume deck that hits the magic 130HP, though. Just beef up your Vanilluxe line.
He should still be running a Vanilluxe line, and a big one at that. 60HP gets one-hit by literally everything, and the deck goes down a couple prizes to get setup. Mew can only maintain a 1-1 prize exchange, so you'll lose every time unless you run Vanilluxe. Vanilluxe, on the other hand, can go 2-1 against everything not Magnezone provided you flip well. That is enough to win games, but not enough to make it top-tier given the flippiness and popularity of Magnezone. Let's wait for Alex to post and let us know whether or not he has the Vanilluxe basics and stage 1's, so we don't start a pointless debate.Afro-G said:
I dont think you understand the strategy. You Double Freeze until they are 50 away from knockout, and then use Fly so they can't damage you next turn. There is no reason to run any lines of Vanilluxe. This makes the deck not only a lot more consistent but a lot better against Magnezone and Cobalion. If I would add a Stage 2 line, it would be Kingdra, but I don't even have space for a 1-1-1 line
Why would you add Kingdra to a deck that has a supposedly good counter to TyRam? Kingdra isn't even that good. Pretty much all it can do against TyRam is 50 damage each turn. Oh, 10 extra damage each turn? You'd really waste deck space for 10 extra damage? Be thankful you don't have extra deck space, Kingdra is pretty much useless.
don()shinobi said:
Do you mind if I put that into my Profile? Pretty hilarious.
I believe some guy also said the same thing about Crobat G.
Kingdra Prime is the Crobat G of this rotation. An extra 10 damage comes a long way from "OH NOEZ, I CAN'T OHKO THE GOTHITELLE/SOME 130HP BEAST BECAUSE I ONLY DO 120" to "Hah, Kingdra adds that last little bit of damage I need to OHKO you. -smugface-"
That being said, Kingdra shouldn't be run as a deck on its own, but as a tech. It's run in many Reshiphlosions and some decks that teched in Kingdra actually topcut Cities. In this deck, Kingdra shouldn't be considered at all, so I'll give you that point.
On topic, why don't you just Fly? Since you're actually taking the risk every time you Fly for the KO, I don't see the problem with using another Fly to at least put some damage on the Cyndaquil.
I understand the deck, but it's weak the way it is now. Unfezant is an okay backup plan, but 25% chance of fail makes it unreliable. Furthermore, Double Freeze damage is unreliable, so you're not guaranteed to get in that 10-50 range every time. If you hit that tails even a couple times, you're probably going to lose. Furthermore, if you play a deck that can snipe or drag (Yanmega, other Mew, or Bellsprout techs), you're probably going to lose. If the deck had a faster setup, it would be much better.
It's a fun deck, sure, but it's just going to troll a few people.
You could just run Luvdisk to pesudo-KO the Cyndaquil, I guess. It also donks some random stuff ftw. I still don't like the idea behind the deck.
don()shinobi, he would use the Kingdra in other matchups, not against TyRam. It sets up more Fly KOs, but it's still pretty bad since Double Freeze can't do reliable damage.
It's a fun deck, sure, but it's just going to troll a few people.
You could just run Luvdisk to pesudo-KO the Cyndaquil, I guess. It also donks some random stuff ftw. I still don't like the idea behind the deck.
don()shinobi, he would use the Kingdra in other matchups, not against TyRam. It sets up more Fly KOs, but it's still pretty bad since Double Freeze can't do reliable damage.
I have made top cut with it at 2 out of 3 Cities. This is a very viable deck. Double Freeze has only a 6% chance to fail, and that almost never happens more than one game, so it's not that bad when it fails. Because Fly does more damage than Double Freeze, it's impossible to be in a situation where I can't Fly and have to Double Freeze. The deck has the fastest setup possible. T1 See Off, T2 See Off (one energy on active Mew, one on a benched), T3 lock. I'm not trying to kill the Cyndaquil, I could just use Frost Breath for that if I wanted. I want to try to find a way that is more consistent than so many Flies to kill the Cyndaquil but not be open for return KOs.
alexmf2 said:
The best I can think of is a Crunch-like attack, that doesn't allow your opponent to retreat. In order to get a KO the next turn via Fly, you'll need to do 10 (to KO cyndaquil) or 30 (to KO Quilava). Obviously, the 30 is more viable since you'll still kill Cyndaquil while taking out Quilava as well. From the official pokemon website, I found these Pokémon to work for your strategy:
Honchkrow UD 16:
This hits the 30/no retreat for a KO on Quilava and Cyndaquil
Lickilicky TM 38:
Hits for 50, can't retreat and heals 20 for {C}{C}{C}, which can be expensive but will get rid of the damage from attaching the Rainbow and any damage previous Cyndaquils might have done while they couldn't retreat.
Eelektross NV 41:
Hits the 30/no retreat, with the second attack possibly being useful as a mop-up/counter to Mewtwo EX when it comes out
Garbodor NV 49:
Hits the 30/no retreat and the attacks are compatible with Mew as well as Gunk Shot being 60 + poison
Personally, I would go with Eelektross, as the second attack could be useful in certain circumstances, while the first does exactly what you need and for {C}{C}, which is really the best you can ask for.
Thank you so much!!!!! Those are all perfect! I will either use Eelektross or Likitung, I will see if the extra damage and healing is worth the extra energy. Again, thanks so much!
EDIT: They would actually be able to Afterburner ko the Cyndaquil if I did 50, so I'm gonna go with Eelektross.
EDIT: They would actually be able to Afterburner ko the Cyndaquil if I did 50, so I'm gonna go with Eelektross.
Oh darn, didn't think about that. I guess you could still play it and hope they don't evolve OR just use fly and hope for heads. In all honesty a 75% chance is good enough to where they will, if it were statistically perfect, only kill one of your mews for every 4 of their Pokémon you kill. And most Reshiphlosion only run 1 Quilava, max 2, and if you hit your plume early enough that should already be used on their Typhlosion
I run mewscoops but I run pure mew and venilluxe lines. I'm curious to know your deck list if you care to share or pm me
Continuing from what should I play thread
I must be a miracle maker because I have made cut with it twice, Only losing from bad misplays.
"You need to see off twice, so I automatically get free prizes off 2 Mews."
Lol. Because every deck can kill a Mew a turn starting turn 1. Or for that matter even turn 2.
"Your incredibly vulnerable to anything that can snipe Victini's off."
Not with 2 Victini and a FSL I ain't. Besides, what even snipes other than Yanmega and Kyurem.
"If I stop Vileplume your going to lose."
The same can be said for any deck that relies on Vileplume... Truth, for example...
"I can play slowly and neve let you even win the first game."
First of all that's called stalling and it's illegal. Second, I would still win off prizes...
All in all, that was quite an absurd post...
I must be a miracle maker because I have made cut with it twice, Only losing from bad misplays.
"You need to see off twice, so I automatically get free prizes off 2 Mews."
Lol. Because every deck can kill a Mew a turn starting turn 1. Or for that matter even turn 2.
"Your incredibly vulnerable to anything that can snipe Victini's off."
Not with 2 Victini and a FSL I ain't. Besides, what even snipes other than Yanmega and Kyurem.
"If I stop Vileplume your going to lose."
The same can be said for any deck that relies on Vileplume... Truth, for example...
"I can play slowly and neve let you even win the first game."
First of all that's called stalling and it's illegal. Second, I would still win off prizes...
All in all, that was quite an absurd post...
You cut twice in Seniors. I'm sorry, but that does not make your argument viable. Any semi-good player can do well in Seniors, deck-independent.
Yes, pretty much every good deck can kill a Mew T2. ZPST, Thunderus in Eel decks, Cobalion/Terraki in CaKE, and yeah that's about all the good stuff now. Except Chandelure, but your deck just fails to Chandelure even though they can't kill Mews early. Having that auto-loss is another thing that makes the deck bad.
Kyurem and Yanmega are hugely popular (Yanmega to a lesser extent, but Kyurem to a great extent.) And FSL is great and all, but you're left vulnerable for a turn if you have to use that as your supporter and you don't have Mews out. That's another prize for me.
It's very true the Vileplume thing can be said for any Vileplume deck. That's one of the things that makes Vileplume a risky play.
I got "stalled" out plenty in Regionals at top cut. I almost lost in top two because he played so slow. It is COMPLETELY legal to take 15 seconds for every single card I play. I can also take 15 seconds to shuffle, etc. That really adds up when all you can do to me is 40 damage. I generally go to one prize against the deck, so no, you don't win on prizes. The same can be said for Swiss. If I take 3-5 minute turns, you're not going to catch up on prizes before time is called. Most Senior players don't do this. I only do it against these flip decks, because I find them somewhat unethical; more unethical than playing slowly. If I lose to them, it's because they flipped well.
It must be called Mewscoops because you only do two things every game: flip over Mew, and then scoop.
Yes, pretty much every good deck can kill a Mew T2. ZPST, Thunderus in Eel decks, Cobalion/Terraki in CaKE, and yeah that's about all the good stuff now. Except Chandelure, but your deck just fails to Chandelure even though they can't kill Mews early. Having that auto-loss is another thing that makes the deck bad.
Kyurem and Yanmega are hugely popular (Yanmega to a lesser extent, but Kyurem to a great extent.) And FSL is great and all, but you're left vulnerable for a turn if you have to use that as your supporter and you don't have Mews out. That's another prize for me.
It's very true the Vileplume thing can be said for any Vileplume deck. That's one of the things that makes Vileplume a risky play.
I got "stalled" out plenty in Regionals at top cut. I almost lost in top two because he played so slow. It is COMPLETELY legal to take 15 seconds for every single card I play. I can also take 15 seconds to shuffle, etc. That really adds up when all you can do to me is 40 damage. I generally go to one prize against the deck, so no, you don't win on prizes. The same can be said for Swiss. If I take 3-5 minute turns, you're not going to catch up on prizes before time is called. Most Senior players don't do this. I only do it against these flip decks, because I find them somewhat unethical; more unethical than playing slowly. If I lose to them, it's because they flipped well.
It must be called Mewscoops because you only do two things every game: flip over Mew, and then scoop.
Celebi hit the nail on the head. But, I'll add on. Yes, just about every good deck can kill a 60 hp mew T2. It's not that hard. Just because you can get the victini back doesn't mean the opponent doesn't get a prize. Also, Raikou EX says hi. The fact that all decks that run Vileplume lose if Vile is taken out doesn't help your case. You can just drag the game out at a legal pace. I'm not sure what kind of tournaments you've been to if people don't do that in top cut against this kind of deck. Between Celebi's post(s) and mine, we've just about covered why VVV or mewscoops isn't a competitive deck. In conclusion, if you're looking for a fun deck to play at a league, by all means, play this deck. But, if you're looking to do better than a top cut or two at cities, don't play this. Finally, I lol'd at the last part of Celebi's post.alexmf2 said: