So I played in my local cities pokemon pre-release yesterday and I pulled a Umbreon GX that carried me 4-0 through a really cheesy deck and it got me to wondering if it could be viable in any way. I've always liked the thought of controlling my opponents energy, especially since in the common meta game people run like 10 max and not 15 or higher, so I feel like it could be a viable strategy, I just don't know if there are any cards to support it well enough. Umbreon GX's Z move discards 2 energy from whatever pokemon you want, but I feel like that's rather mediocre, especially alone. Can anyone else think of any potential deck ideas, Dark or otherwise, that could abuse energy discarding?
Help Any Good Energy Mill Decks?
- Thread starter Adrien von Ardel
- Start date
I'm looking for this answer as well.
I'd classify this as "Control" or "Disruption" and not mill; I tend to think of mill as discarding from the deck as that is how I've heard the term used. Not trying to be a jerk; if it turns out only I'm confused by it then don't worry, I'll manage. XD
It proves kind of relevant as there are two contemporary archetypes that spring readily to mind and focus on Energy control/disruption in Standard play, and one of them is indeed a mill deck (focuses on winning by forcing the opponent to run out of cards in his or her deck). M Scizor-EX variants already favor additional Energy discard strategies, plus if you wanted, Reverse Valley can be played either direction according to which of your attackers proves better for the current matchup. The other is a mill deck based on Bunnelby (PRC), Raticate (EVO), and Houndoom-EX (or BRaH as I call it). BRaH includes a lot of cards to discard your opponent's Energy because it also includes cards to try and tank hits (Fighting Fury Belt and Max Potion), and to discard cards from your opponent's deck (two of the three Pokémon just named).
It proves kind of relevant as there are two contemporary archetypes that spring readily to mind and focus on Energy control/disruption in Standard play, and one of them is indeed a mill deck (focuses on winning by forcing the opponent to run out of cards in his or her deck). M Scizor-EX variants already favor additional Energy discard strategies, plus if you wanted, Reverse Valley can be played either direction according to which of your attackers proves better for the current matchup. The other is a mill deck based on Bunnelby (PRC), Raticate (EVO), and Houndoom-EX (or BRaH as I call it). BRaH includes a lot of cards to discard your opponent's Energy because it also includes cards to try and tank hits (Fighting Fury Belt and Max Potion), and to discard cards from your opponent's deck (two of the three Pokémon just named).
Yeah, it could easily and probably more fittingly is called "Control" or "Disruption". Are there example deck lists out there for either of these deck varieties? And in particular with that latter suggestion, how do you keep such frail mons like the Raticate alive? Just equip a fighting fury, maybe the Raticate Break, and heal when you can?
Not necessarily good lists, but I'll share my own for the two decks with a short explanation (time constraints). These will be straight from the PTCGO and follow its formatting guidelines; might be a bit confusing if you don't use the Pokémon Trading Card Game Online program, but if you do then you can easily import them. 
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 10
* 2 Bunnelby PRC 121
* 2 Rattata EVO 66
* 2 Raticate EVO 67
* 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 2 Houndoom-EX BKT 153
##Trainer Cards - 42
* 4 Max Potion EPO 94
* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 1 Professor Birch's Observations PRC 159
* 4 Crushing Hammer LTR 111
* 2 Super Rod BKT 149
* 1 Olympia GEN 66
* 2 Team Flare Grunt XY 129
* 4 Ultra Ball FLF 99
* 1 Ninja Boy STS 103
* 2 Fighting Fury Belt BKP 99
* 2 N FAC 105
* 2 Lysandre FLF 104
* 4 Enhanced Hammer DEX 94
* 1 Team Rocket's Handiwork FAC 112
* 3 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 1 Delinquent BKP 98
##Energy - 8
* 8 Fire Energy Energy 2
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
So Bunnelby/Raticate/Houndoom-EX works by milling your opponent (discarding cards from the top of his or her deck) while keeping them from using big attacks (discarding Energy, forcing up Pokémon unable to attack, slowing down Mega Evolution by discarding Spirit Link cards, etc.). Houndoom-EX tanks via Fighting Fury Belt and Max Potion. Bunnelby is for when tanking isn't an option. Raticate doesn't worry about surviving because either it attacks when its scoring a OHKO, when it can discard Energy to prevent an opponent from easily attacking the next turn, or when it can score a OHKO and your Trainers keep an opponent from easily attacking the next turn.
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 14
* 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 4 Scizor-EX BKP 119
* 3 M Scizor-EX BKP 77
* 1 Hoopa-EX AOR 36
* 2 Trubbish BKP 56
* 2 Garbodor BKP 57
##Trainer Cards - 36
* 3 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 1 Professor Birch's Observations PRC 159
* 1 Escape Rope PRC 127
* 4 Ultra Ball DEX 102
* 1 Super Rod BKT 149
* 1 Team Flare Grunt XY 129
* 4 Scizor Spirit Link BKP 111
* 3 Float Stone PLF 99
* 1 Giovanni's Scheme BKT 138
* 2 Parallel City BKT 145
* 3 N FAC 105
* 1 Pokémon Ranger STS 104
* 2 Lysandre FLF 104
* 2 Mega Turbo ROS 86
* 3 Professor Sycamore XY 122
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
##Energy - 10
* 6 Metal Energy Energy 8
* 4 Shield Energy PRC 143
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
Garbodor is there to deny an opponent Abilities (if worth it; discard fodder if not). Focus on 2HKO's with the occasional OHKO via M Scizor-EX and discarding Energy or Stadium cards. Trainers help if the opponent is relying more on Basic Energy cards.
Both decks have some really bad matchups that give them autolosses, or at least close to it. If you can solve them, congrats! I'm not using these in tournaments, so I just accept it.
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 10
* 2 Bunnelby PRC 121
* 2 Rattata EVO 66
* 2 Raticate EVO 67
* 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 2 Houndoom-EX BKT 153
##Trainer Cards - 42
* 4 Max Potion EPO 94
* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 1 Professor Birch's Observations PRC 159
* 4 Crushing Hammer LTR 111
* 2 Super Rod BKT 149
* 1 Olympia GEN 66
* 2 Team Flare Grunt XY 129
* 4 Ultra Ball FLF 99
* 1 Ninja Boy STS 103
* 2 Fighting Fury Belt BKP 99
* 2 N FAC 105
* 2 Lysandre FLF 104
* 4 Enhanced Hammer DEX 94
* 1 Team Rocket's Handiwork FAC 112
* 3 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 1 Delinquent BKP 98
##Energy - 8
* 8 Fire Energy Energy 2
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
So Bunnelby/Raticate/Houndoom-EX works by milling your opponent (discarding cards from the top of his or her deck) while keeping them from using big attacks (discarding Energy, forcing up Pokémon unable to attack, slowing down Mega Evolution by discarding Spirit Link cards, etc.). Houndoom-EX tanks via Fighting Fury Belt and Max Potion. Bunnelby is for when tanking isn't an option. Raticate doesn't worry about surviving because either it attacks when its scoring a OHKO, when it can discard Energy to prevent an opponent from easily attacking the next turn, or when it can score a OHKO and your Trainers keep an opponent from easily attacking the next turn.
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 14
* 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 4 Scizor-EX BKP 119
* 3 M Scizor-EX BKP 77
* 1 Hoopa-EX AOR 36
* 2 Trubbish BKP 56
* 2 Garbodor BKP 57
##Trainer Cards - 36
* 3 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 1 Professor Birch's Observations PRC 159
* 1 Escape Rope PRC 127
* 4 Ultra Ball DEX 102
* 1 Super Rod BKT 149
* 1 Team Flare Grunt XY 129
* 4 Scizor Spirit Link BKP 111
* 3 Float Stone PLF 99
* 1 Giovanni's Scheme BKT 138
* 2 Parallel City BKT 145
* 3 N FAC 105
* 1 Pokémon Ranger STS 104
* 2 Lysandre FLF 104
* 2 Mega Turbo ROS 86
* 3 Professor Sycamore XY 122
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
##Energy - 10
* 6 Metal Energy Energy 8
* 4 Shield Energy PRC 143
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
Garbodor is there to deny an opponent Abilities (if worth it; discard fodder if not). Focus on 2HKO's with the occasional OHKO via M Scizor-EX and discarding Energy or Stadium cards. Trainers help if the opponent is relying more on Basic Energy cards.
Both decks have some really bad matchups that give them autolosses, or at least close to it. If you can solve them, congrats! I'm not using these in tournaments, so I just accept it.
If you're looking for board disruption and mill, although it's not standard format, I'd recommend Sableye/Garbodor. It involves a lot energy disruption and often times, you totally control the resources your opponent has and gets. It's getting Gumshoos-GX and Team Skull Grunt in Sun & Moon, and Rotom 'Dex could potentially be useful as well.
If you want standard format, I've been thinking about an Umbreon-GX/Tauros-GX deck. You use Umbreon's attack, 'Strafe', to switch into Tauros-GX. Tauros-GX acts as a wall, and if they can't manage to one shot it, you can throw a DCE on it and hit for big numbers. You'd also run lots of hammers and other disruptive cards to limit your opponent from doing too much, and Umbreon-GX's GX attack is always there. It's not totally based around board disruption like you were asking, but it could be fun.
If you want standard format, I've been thinking about an Umbreon-GX/Tauros-GX deck. You use Umbreon's attack, 'Strafe', to switch into Tauros-GX. Tauros-GX acts as a wall, and if they can't manage to one shot it, you can throw a DCE on it and hit for big numbers. You'd also run lots of hammers and other disruptive cards to limit your opponent from doing too much, and Umbreon-GX's GX attack is always there. It's not totally based around board disruption like you were asking, but it could be fun.
Here is what I came up with for the reddit/ptcgo tournament. That tournament has some budget rules (no EX, no BREAK), which actually hurts me, since I find this deck does well against EX decks. The only deck it auto-loses against is Greninja, for obvious reasons.
Here is the deck in action.
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 14
* 2 Bunnelby PRC 121
* 4 Rattata EVO 66
* 4 Raticate EVO 67
* 2 Remoraid BKT 31
* 2 Octillery BKT 33
##Trainer Cards - 38
* 3 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 3 Team Aqua's Secret Base DCR 28
* 2 Lysandre AOR 78
* 2 Team Flare Grunt GEN 73
* 4 Crushing Hammer GEN 60
* 3 Random Receiver FAC 109
* 4 Level Ball AOR 76
* 2 Winona ROS 96
* 4 N FAC 105
* 2 Enhanced Hammer PHF 94
* 2 Team Rocket's Handiwork FAC 112
* 4 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 3 VS Seeker PHF 109
##Energy - 8
* 8 Fairy Energy Energy 9
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
Here is the deck in action.
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 14
* 2 Bunnelby PRC 121
* 4 Rattata EVO 66
* 4 Raticate EVO 67
* 2 Remoraid BKT 31
* 2 Octillery BKT 33
##Trainer Cards - 38
* 3 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 3 Team Aqua's Secret Base DCR 28
* 2 Lysandre AOR 78
* 2 Team Flare Grunt GEN 73
* 4 Crushing Hammer GEN 60
* 3 Random Receiver FAC 109
* 4 Level Ball AOR 76
* 2 Winona ROS 96
* 4 N FAC 105
* 2 Enhanced Hammer PHF 94
* 2 Team Rocket's Handiwork FAC 112
* 4 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 3 VS Seeker PHF 109
##Energy - 8
* 8 Fairy Energy Energy 9
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
I was wondering though, what are your matchups when playing mill?
My first thought on this is that decks that require a lot of Energy to get going are your easiest matchups because your Hammers/Slowking/Raticate/overall milling can deny Energy so well, they will hardly even be able to pull amything off.
On the other side though, you can just auto-lose to deck like Greninja, which attacks off one Energy and hits Houndoom for Weakness, plus it snipes Raticate and Bunnelby off the Bench with its Giant Water Shuriken with the perfect amount of 60 damage. That is, unless you run Garbodor, but then, it is still very tough.
Special Energy heavy decks can really struggle against mills, I believe, because a Special Energy is hard to recover (have to find a Special Charge) and Enhanced Hammer can deny it right away. Besides, Raticate can cause extremely high damage through your opponent's discarded Special Energy cards.
However, another type of matchup you could easily fall to is decks that set up fast and know what they are playing against, for example Volcanion-EX and Mega Gardevoir EX. Note that they do not use any Special Energy, and can attack with one or two Energy cards. Mega Rayquaza uses Special Energy, but it is able to OHKO your Houndoom-EX, so unless you can drop Parallel City and play important N at the key times, you will likely fall down, even though you will technically have significantly less to mill through than against most other opponents (that is if they draw well, which is probably bad for your deck's longevity).
So, overall I think mill is not a deck anyone should expect to win tournaments with, but that can be a lot of fun to play. Then again, I do not know that much about playing mill myself, only basing my reasoning here out of examples and theory. Therefore, I would like to know what you think of mill, of its matchups, of its viability.
My first thought on this is that decks that require a lot of Energy to get going are your easiest matchups because your Hammers/Slowking/Raticate/overall milling can deny Energy so well, they will hardly even be able to pull amything off.
On the other side though, you can just auto-lose to deck like Greninja, which attacks off one Energy and hits Houndoom for Weakness, plus it snipes Raticate and Bunnelby off the Bench with its Giant Water Shuriken with the perfect amount of 60 damage. That is, unless you run Garbodor, but then, it is still very tough.
Special Energy heavy decks can really struggle against mills, I believe, because a Special Energy is hard to recover (have to find a Special Charge) and Enhanced Hammer can deny it right away. Besides, Raticate can cause extremely high damage through your opponent's discarded Special Energy cards.
However, another type of matchup you could easily fall to is decks that set up fast and know what they are playing against, for example Volcanion-EX and Mega Gardevoir EX. Note that they do not use any Special Energy, and can attack with one or two Energy cards. Mega Rayquaza uses Special Energy, but it is able to OHKO your Houndoom-EX, so unless you can drop Parallel City and play important N at the key times, you will likely fall down, even though you will technically have significantly less to mill through than against most other opponents (that is if they draw well, which is probably bad for your deck's longevity).
So, overall I think mill is not a deck anyone should expect to win tournaments with, but that can be a lot of fun to play. Then again, I do not know that much about playing mill myself, only basing my reasoning here out of examples and theory. Therefore, I would like to know what you think of mill, of its matchups, of its viability.
The match-up is still wretched, but for the record, BRaH* decks (Bunnelby/Raticate/Houndoom-EX) now include a TecH Giratina (XY: Black Star Promo 184) to frustrate Greninja BREAK. If the Greninja BREAK player drops a Silent Lab to deal with Giratina, they open themselves up to Delinquent.
The biggest help is, unfortunately, the one that is fleeting; an opponent who doesn't know how to handle the BRaH match-up.
*Don't worry if you hate the name; I think only myself and three other people use it on this board.