Archeops

MetaArmor

Defender of Lemons
Member
There is a new ruling for Archeops (Proof HERE) that states Rare Candy no longer bypasses Archeops ability. With this new ruling, it makes Archeops an amazing tech when in play.
If you disagree with this ruling, just pretend that this is the final and correct ruling because I want to talk about how Archeops can be used and not get off topic and only discuss the new ruling on his ability.

67-archeops.jpg


Just look at that ability. Seems almost broken right? Well that is just about all that is good about Archeops. Yes it does have the magic 130HP, a non-exploitable weakness (remember, Yanmega ignores weakness) and a type advantage against Zekrom, but this Archeopteryx has some problems.

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The Problem? Mainly the nerf'd fossil mechanic that makes any fossil pokemon nearly impossible to get into play. I hope that future cards are released that help with the new fossil mechanic because right now it is just Horrible. There are ways around this, but then you are just throwing more card in just to get a tech up. But that should not make us dismiss Archeops automaticly. Vileplume/Reuniclus is a huge tech that takes up half the deck, yet google variants have been successful in our meta. Also posing a problem to Archeops' playability, his attack. His attack cost is high at a {F}{F}{C}. Although it has a type advantage against Zekrom and a non-exploitable weakness, fighting has no energy acceleration. It makes it very difficult to use Archeops' mediocre attack if it was to be catchered. And if he is to be catchered, you need to switch him out, which would cost you a switch or a DCE.

So how could Archeops be used? Well he is an interesting card to say the least. When out, he could stop opponents set up dead in its tracks. Many decks would be hurt by this. I would list them, but it is basically any deck but ZPST and Durant. That said, it is not like you would just be able to start KOing basics like it is nothing. Most basics now have hefty HP that is well over 100, not exactly easy KOs. A deck running Archeops will most likely be running hefty basics of its own. That said, an Archeops deck could still evolve on your side if you make a deck to do so, by either Mew/Leavanny or Accelgor/Escavalier. Both of these combinations will allow you to evolve from the deck, bypassing Archeops' ability. It probably is not the best way to play an Archeops deck, but it is still something to think about. Another interesting card is Jirachi, who can de-evolve pokemon that were set up before Archeops went into play.

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How would an Archeops deck run? Well you would want to concentrate on getting Archeops up as soon as possible. So you would not want to run any pokemon that evolve. If you did, then you would want to get them up first before Archeops, and in doing that you are just giving your opponent more time to evolve themselfs. That takes out the use of Electrode Prime, which also removes the possibility of using Fighting Energy, considering that is the best way to accelerate the Fighting energy. So we need Basic pokemon that do not use fighting energy.

So what could we do? Well there is a Mewbox option with Jirachi to de-evolve. I have seen this combination being played a few times online, but the problem is that the Archeops set up is just too slow because of the amount of cards Mew needs included to survive. I have tested it myself and it is a pretty good way to play, but I went looking for something better.

I decided to go with {M}. Skarmory, which is a basic that accelerates Metal Energy, can be used with Cobalion from Noble Victories which is a basic that takes advantage of Skarmory's Steel Coat. There is also Tornadus, who is a colorless basic who can take advantage of DCE, which would want to be run with Archeops' {C}{C} retreat cost. Here is a deck that I have been testing on PlayTCG.com.

Pokemon: 17
4-2 Archeops
4 Skarmory
3 Cobalion
3 Tornadus
1 Cleffa

T/S/S: 32
4 Plume Fossil
4 Research Record
4 Communication
2 Dual Ball
2 Junk Arm
2 Evolite

4 Oak
3 Cheren
3 Twins
2 Collector
2 Flower Shop Lady

Energy: 11
3 Metal Energy
4 Special Metal
4 Double Colorless

The Strategy:
Concentrate on getting Archen Turn 1. Collector is lowered to just two cards for this reason. You want to spend your Turn 1 Supporter on refreshing your hand to try to get this set up, and Dual Ball is used instead to get the basics out. Cheren is chosen instead of Sages because a discarded Archen is worse than an Archen in your hand, because you can always communicate the Archen back into the deck. Once Archen is on the bench, then it is time to search for an Archeops for the evolution lock. During the Archeops set up, Any basic I start with would be ideal, but Skarmory is preferred.

The deck does Okay, better than the Jirachi variant but reguardless who is used with Archeops, him being up by turn 2 is about 50/50, and not nearly as useful if you go second. Archeops has some problems, but he is playable and most importantly, a FUN deck to play with.


EDIT: We have scans on PokeBeach for a reason. Use 'em. ~Serperior.
 
First of all, I never considered "Lock Decks" fun at all whether I'm using it or I'm playing against it. Locking just makes the game too slow to give it fun.

Here's the thing. The concept sounds solid in theory but here is why I don't like it.

1. A really bad day can screw you over.

The fossil mechanic relies so much on pulling the Archen from the bottom seven of the deck. Once you get a bad start, it's pretty hard to come back. Remember that there are 4 Archen in your deck. I think some stats from J-Wittz's show did say that the chances of you starting with a certain card when there are four copies of it is 40%. There is a 40% chance that one of your four Archen is stuck in your hand while you have to use Comm to put it back. In the end, it just relies solely on luck and it's not even 50-50. What if you go second, play only one Archen down and it gets Catcher KO'd the next turn? You'll struggle to get anything up and end up getting blown out.

2. It has an auto-loss to one of the Big Five and can't do anything to tech against it.

That auto-loss is named ZPTS by the way, it's a deck full of basics so most of your cards dedicated to Archeops are now dead draw, the rest of your deck gets knocked out in one shot sans Sp. Metal/Eviolite. Seeing as ZPTS is one of the more common decks in the tournament setting, this will be very hard for you if you get paired to them often.

3. Cobalion has a more useful deck.

Cobalion is better off using Electrode Prime and Kyurem (as a TyRam counter) and make a cool basic deck that functions as a pseudo-toolbox. Cobalion must always have a way around Reshiram and your deck doesn't have a solid counter for it. One could Catcher your Archeops out, manually charge Reshiram, drop a Pluspower and KO your Archeops and giving yourself another hard time.


Overall, I can only see Archeops as a cool league deck to annoy some kids maybe. It's too vulnerable to Catcher, loses to a lot of the top decks

TyRam- Archeops gets Catcher'd
Goth/Truth- Trainer Lock cripples your entire deck
ZPTS- Need I say more?
PrimeTime- Can't say much but Archen looks like nice snipe bait for Yanmega

So as long as those problems can be solved, Archeops will remain something that just hovers around 2.5 or lower.

[/sand=Brisk Cakers] -Futachimaru
 
Why isn't jirachi in your list? It might be in your article, but I didn't readf the whole thing. I would run at least 2 jirachi and 4 psychics
 
iisnumber12 said:
Why isn't jirachi in your list? It might be in your article, but I didn't readf the whole thing. I would run at least 2 jirachi and 4 psychics

Please read the original post before you ask such a question.

Also brisk, thank you for the detailed responce. Archeops is no where near Tier1 material unless future cards are created which help the new fossil mechanic. It is league material until then. But I disagree with your opinion on what makes a fun deck I guess because I quite enjoy playing decks that make the game take some time and have me and my opponent think new stratigies than the usual straightforward deck. If I get my opponent in a lock, how will they respond? If I can not get Archeops up, how will my deck react to it? I also enjoy rouge decks and not going with the flow. I find this fun, but that may just be me.
 
Yesterday though I was using TyRam against a weird concoction of Kyurem, Landorus, Tornadus and Archeops. It was a tough game to be honest, I went 2-1 against it and my loss was due to my Cleffa sleeping going to my turn where I could have catcher'd the Archen out which really exposes the deck's weakness. Well hey, I found stuff like Chandelure and Volbeat fun because they are still offensive based. I just find lock-decks rouge or not to be boring and sucks the fun out of the game but it's personal opinion though.

If you want to pursue this idea though, I would really recommend Kyurem to be placed somewhere in the deck. It's too good to combo with Archeops evolution locking abilities to KO a bench of basics in one turn.
 
I'd reccomend archeops jirachi and kyurem. You set up archeops, devolve, and spread to win the game. It would need a zpst counter though
 
I personally like the deck. Ive always liked Archeops. I'd probably take out the cleffa for another Coblioan(sorry if i spelt it wrong) because with this format, baby pokemon are out. It was that short period of time that baby pokemon were any good. Baby pokemon WILL not make it through cities. There's so many cards to do just 30 damage. So take that out and put in another Coblioan and then tell me how that does.
 
Off-Topic: The rule makes sense, as Rare Candy is worded, "This counts as evolving that Pokemon." Think of it that way.

On-Topic: Archeops is an underrated card, in my opinion. Or, at least, now (as opposed to earlier). While not the hype it deserved when the translation was first revealed, Archeops is a great card, but not as a tech. It has to have an entire deck built around it, or else it will not work, due to the Fossil Rule. Which is exactly what you did, MetaArmor.

pokemonjoe had the right idea, build a deck around the low HP of basics and pick them off. Kyurem, Jirachi, and Archeops seems to be the way to go. Set up Archeops, use Jirachi to devolve what they already did, and profit. The problems with this:

ZPST: I dare you to find evolutions in this…
Everything Else: Catcher FTW

It's almost as if this deck needs Vileplume, but you'd have to set it up. Quickly. Because the main priority is to set up Archeops. But then it seems a bit clunky, doesn't it?

It looks like Archeops does't really have a way forward at the moment. Especially in our Basic-dominated format and with more on the way. (EX's. Sadface)

Of course, there could be a total lock deck, with Archeops, Vileplume, Cobalion, and friends…

/me goes off to think.
 
^ Sorry to say, I already thought of this and it got shut down. Here's proof:
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-ultimate-lock :(
 
Yeah, getting out Archen, then waiting to get out Vileplume, then getting out Archeops is just too tough. Having to wait for the Vileplume to come out between getting Archen out and evolving to Archeops is simply asking for your opponent to Catcher something. Sure, if you got it out, your opponent would be in trouble, but getting 2 (effective) Stage 2s out is hard enough as it is, even without the fossil mechanic and doing it with a strong Traner-base, neither of which you have with Vileplume and Archeops.

Until we have a way of getting Archen to the bottom of the deck easily, Archeops will not see much, if any, play. It's too unreliable, folds to Trainer lock, and doesn't even do anything to several decks.
 
I am glad to see that Archeops decks are being thought about. :D
The kyurem jirachi combo mentioned does sound tempting to try out, but it seems as if that deck has no way of stoping zpst. None the less I will give it a try when I get some free time; can not just dismiss a deck purely on theory.
Also I agree that trainerlock would be awesome to set up after an archen gets on the bench, but it really would be nearly impossible to set up both of them in time to stall your opponent properly.
 
I was thinking and remembered a card. Its Musharna from Psycho Drive, likely to be in Next Destinies. Anybody else remember it?

030.jpg



Translation:

Ability: Forewarn
Once during your turn (before your attack), you may look at the top 2 cards of your deck, and put 1 of them into your hand. Put the other card on the bottom of your deck.

{P}{P} Fluffy Dream 40 damage
This Pokemon is now asleep.

I'll admit it; I've been the first to bash both of these cards, comparing Musharna to the awful draw engine that is Noctowl, and saying Archeops will never be set up in time to do anything. But if you use them together, now Musharna can greatly increase chances of Archeops getting out. You also don't have to leave it so much to luck-you can use Sage's Training/Junk Arm/Professor Juniper to put an Archen in the discard, Good Rod/Recycle to get it on top of the deck, Musharna to put it on the bottom of the deck, and then play Plume Fossil. It seems tricky but since you only need to play Recycle/Good Rod right before you use Musharna's power and the rest can happen whenever, its really not that hard. Musharna's draw power isn't big, but its something and will help you set up a little faster even if you don't need to get Archeops out (ZPST cough cough). What does everyone else think?
 
But then they play Pokémon Catcher and you have an active Musharna with 3 Retreat.

And you have to use resources to set Musharna up.

And you'd need a lot of cards for the combo and still wouldn't necessarily get it done... you could flip tails on the Good Rod/Recycle, not have Archen in the top 5 for Sage's to begin with, etc...

And you've taken, what, a 2-2 Musharna line, 4-4-2 Archeops, at least 3 Good Rod/Recycle, at least 3, maybe 4 Switch... that's 20 cards already and you don't even have a main attacker. And it'll all go to waste once your Archen/Archeops is Catchered and then KO'd.

It's nice if you can get lucky, or your opponent draws absolutely dead, but 9 times out of 10, that combo would just fail to do anything.
 
Once Archeops is out Musharna is death fodder anyway, Also, Archeops's nice 130 hp means most decks will have to waste resources to OHKO. Anyway, I wasn't so much saying it would make Archeops viable as it would make it more reasonable to set up I agree that even with Musharna its autofail against ZPST means it wouldn't win a tournament or anything.
 
Most decks are willing to waste resources to KO it. By the time it's up, if I'm playing any evolution deck, I will have no problem with Catcher or two+do whatever I can to KO it- whether it be attacking twice with Yanmega, Lost Burning 3 energy, EQ twice+PP, Blue Flare+PP, etc. And by that point, you've wasted more resources getting Archeops out than your opponent has KOing it.
 
Actually, Sonicboom ignores weakness and resistance so Yanmega can't OHKO this so it can retreat, you spam Cobalion for some 2HKOs, and win against stage 1 rush. It should do well against The Truth in theory since with Musharna you can probably get up Archeops before they get out Reuniclus so long as you don't let them twins, and since the deck doesn't have Catcher you can just start 2HKOing stuff with Cobalion. In fact, if you are indeed able to get out Archeops before the opponent can set up any of their stage 2s, you would have a decent-good matchup against almost any deck other than ZPST. Of course, in the end it still is relatively luck based and so long as ZPST remains tier 1 the onyl way you'd do much with the deck in a tourney is to get lucky and not face ZPST.
 
Dark Void said:
onicboom ignores weakness and resistance so Yanmega can't OHKO this so it can retreat
Scizorliscious said:
attacking twice with Yanmega

You can use two Catcher for Yanmega (or Catcher+Junk Arm). That, and Archeops has a RC of 2, so the opponent would probably need a Switch (or waste energy...). Or just give fodder to whatever attacker the Archeops deck has until you draw into a Catcher/out...
Believe me when I say that Stage 1s has a really, really easy time with Cobalion. Yanmega can just retreat out, and Zoroark can counter with Cobalion's own attack. Once Archeops is out of the way, it's not a problem.

You will probably not get Archeops out before Vileplume comes. Just being perfectly honest; the Musharna+Sage+Good Rod/Recycle combo is really gimmicky, and the opposing deck is made to get out a Vileplume as soon as it can without relying heavily on Trainers. If you do get the Archeops out, sure, you might have an easy time, but if the opponent ends up getting SEL out, it could become very difficult very quickly.

Archeops just can't hold up against any decks. It hurts decks, sure, but not permanently and not enough to make it worth it.
 
MetaArmor said:
I am glad to see that Archeops decks are being thought about. :D
The kyurem jirachi combo mentioned does sound tempting to try out, but it seems as if that deck has no way of stoping zpst. None the less I will give it a try when I get some free time; can not just dismiss a deck purely on theory.
Also I agree that trainerlock would be awesome to set up after an archen gets on the bench, but it really would be nearly impossible to set up both of them in time to stall your opponent properly.

It's an auto-loss to ZPTS anyway. Which is why it's not too good.
 
Brisk Cakers said:
It's an auto-loss to ZPTS anyway. Which is why it's not too good.

This.

Also, the fact that Archeops is hampered by the new fossil mechanic, along with Trainer lock still being populair, means Archeops has a lot of trouble setting up consistently. While blocking out evolutions sounds good on paper, keep in mind we have 130 HP, 120 damage hitting basics in the format. Though you delay them by denying some evolution support (this mainly applies to Reshiram), these decks will struggle a little without their evolutions but they won't have a too hard time to deal with it(not even to mention what happens if they set up their evolutions before you have Archeops out).

Against evolution decks Archeops could possibly work, but it's lack of having a consistent way of getting out make shim fall short there, and except for stage 1 rush and magnezone (and maybe the possible rogue), most evolution based decks feature Trainer lock as well.

My conclusion is that Archeops is a wonderful card, but they gave it penalties it shouldn't have to make it (ab)usable. Archeops might have a chance to shine in a future format, but for now I see too many things that hinder it more than that helps it.
 
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