Pokemon Are gyms holding Pokemon back?

chaoswr

chaoswr

Aspiring Trainer
Member
In case you didn't know the origins of the idea, it all started with a guy who used to hunt bugs in his backyard. Looking for different kinds, watching them grow, showing them off to friends... that's where it all started. Even the social aspects came from imagining insects crawling along a link cable.

Pokemon has always been about a few main things: personalization, socialization, battling, and exploration. (Yes, you could name other things, but they sort of fall under these.) As Pokemon grew into the behemoth it is today, it built on the original formula, making each of it's most pronounced aspects even better than before. Pokemon have never felt more yours, and more like friends. The number of ways to link games and play with friends is astounding for a 1 player game. Battling has grown into a full legitimate experience, with it's own following. Exploration has... oh wait... it's largely the same.

For a series based on looking for stuff, Pokemon games are very linear, granted this was necessary back on the gameboy. Nobody was putting out some Skyrim or MMO for that little thing. What they made was the closest thing to an open world game it could handle. Go to the next town, beat the gym, and pass through a dungeon to get to the next town. Not a bad formula, but today games can be much larger in scale, including handheld games. Surely there's no need play in a straight line anymore, right? Surely a larger focus on the journey rather than the destination would favor a series built around searching and personalizing.

I can't help but feel something went wrong along the way, that in order to hold on to tradition Pokemon has been built around an aspect that was mostly there due to technology not being able to fully realize the dream. Am I being stupid, or is this a legitimate analysis? I don't mean to attack anyone's childhoods (I grew up on Red version) Please, give your thoughts.
 
I'd like to agree. As much as I love Pokemon games, (I grew up on Crystal and Emerald), I think having to go on a cut and dry mission to beat the necessary gyms and Elite 4 is kind of lame. It's good to be able to go on your own journey, but it just seems all too linear. That's why the idea of Conquest excited me so much. It's a new, different thing. And I like that.
 
I see your point. But what I think they should do is have real graphics. This is kind of like what you said how "they could only do so much on a Game Boy game, but nowadays they could really go farther" there are tons of DS games with real graphics, and now the 3DS as well. I don't know, but they've had moving pictures for so long now...I think it would be cool to see new graphics in Pokemon. As for the gym thing, I kind of agree, a bit more freedom I guess or just a new pattern would be interesting.
 
Personally, I think the graphics could go untouched and still not affect the actual experience. Minecraft looks absolutely derptastic, but it's built so well around its' mechanics that nobody even cares. Yes, Pokemon certainly does deserve the 3D leap as it could at least look as good as it did on the Gamecube, but I don't think that will do much to the core gameplay. (for a game changed by 3d, see Sonic the Hedgehog). That's both a good and bad thing, as while everything good from before is 100% preservable, it also means the linearity will probably be preserved as well. And it's not like gyms have to just up and disappear forever, but making them the focus runs your open adventure in rut.
 
Well, you bring up an interesting point. I personally believe ow that I think of it, that gyms still exist to keep you from sweeping through a game with 1 OP pokemon you transferred from an old game. I think if they made a game where the main goal was to hunt down legendaries (for catching or not) or rescuing them. something like that. NOT LIKE RANGER. I'm not sure how, but it'd be pretty cool.
 
Yes and no. If spinoffs like PMD and Ranger proved anything, it is that Pokemon can be fashioned into scenarios other than trainer journeys. However, gyms provide set stages of the games for players to work towards before moving onward. Additionally, they keep some sort of restrictions in the games that prevent players from blasting through them with a single strong Pokemon they imported from another version.
 
I'm going to say maybe. The gym leader quest is starting to get tedious, but at the same time, it's pretty important to the player's journey, how else are they going to gauge the player's progress?
 
I'm going to say maybe. The gym leader quest is starting to get tedious, but at the same time, it's pretty important to the player's journey, how else are they going to gauge the player's progress?
Click to expand...
I asked my sisters: "What is the goal of Animal Crossing?" Here are their responses:
The goal of Animal Crossing is to have the most Money, and get everyrthing.
Click to expand...
Animal crossing has no end, and the goal is to have fun!
Click to expand...
What's the goal of Minecraft? What's the goal of Scribblenauts? To play with the system, to see what you can find. Having over 600 monsters, a plethora of habitats to explore, and so many legendary entities, Pokemon would flourish in an open environment.
 
Well, it could also be set up to chronicle a player's career as a trainer sans just the gyms and Elite Four. I personally disdain games without a set storyline or goal.
 
chaoswr said:
I'm going to say maybe. The gym leader quest is starting to get tedious, but at the same time, it's pretty important to the player's journey, how else are they going to gauge the player's progress?
Click to expand...
I asked my sisters: "What is the goal of Animal Crossing?" Here are their responses:
The goal of Animal Crossing is to have the most Money, and get everyrthing.
Click to expand...
Animal crossing has no end, and the goal is to have fun!
Click to expand...
What's the goal of Minecraft? What's the goal of Scribblenauts? To play with the system, to see what you can find. Having over 600 monsters, a plethora of habitats to explore, and so many legendary entities, Pokemon would flourish in an open environment.
Click to expand...

It's a bit more complicated by that. Becoming the best trainer is also a major goal in the main series, and if you want to change the formula, you have to rethink what the player's goals should be and how important they are to the game. Let's say the main goal is no longer to become Champion. They have to give you some way to prove your strength in game, battling is a key part of the formula. How would you go about doing that and how important would it be in the game? And what would the storyline entail? It's not just about exploring and doing whatever you want, you have specific goals you can accomplish in the game. If you want to remove gyms as a requirement for completing the storyline, you need to rethink the importance of similar game mechanics in the game.
 
It's a bit more complicated by that. Becoming the best trainer is also a major goal in the main series, and if you want to change the formula, you have to rethink what the player's goals should be and how important they are to the game. Let's say the main goal is no longer to become Champion. They have to give you some way to prove your strength in game, battling is a key part of the formula. How would you go about doing that and how important would it be in the game? And what would the storyline entail? It's not just about exploring and doing whatever you want, you have specific goals you can accomplish in the game. If you want to remove gyms as a requirement for completing the storyline, you need to rethink the importance of similar game mechanics in the game.
Click to expand...
Well, let's suppose for a moment that that the Pokemon world indeed was changed from a connect the dots across the map, to being dropped in the middle of a circle and told "Go in any direction." I don't care if there are places with powerful trainers waiting to test your might, but using them as a gauge for progress charts your path for you. Ok, sure: say there were 7 powerful trainers across the land, who you could challenge in any order at varying levels of difficulty and get bronze, silver, or gold badges for it. Badges would have been changed from mere check points to trophies. YOU make your goal in this game, and if you want to be the best battler so be it. Maybe you are catching them all, perhaps you want certain rare pokemon, you may want to collect certain items, you could be trying to get to that certain area, contests might be your cup of tea, or more likely your mission will change every day. Sure there may be many quests along the way, but the overall adventure is as grand as you make it. And it's all so you can have the personal satisfaction, and to show off to your friends.

I felt proud about beating the Elite four... ONCE. I HAD to do that. Everyone did... the same way... and we've been doing it ever since.
 
chaoswr said:
It's a bit more complicated by that. Becoming the best trainer is also a major goal in the main series, and if you want to change the formula, you have to rethink what the player's goals should be and how important they are to the game. Let's say the main goal is no longer to become Champion. They have to give you some way to prove your strength in game, battling is a key part of the formula. How would you go about doing that and how important would it be in the game? And what would the storyline entail? It's not just about exploring and doing whatever you want, you have specific goals you can accomplish in the game. If you want to remove gyms as a requirement for completing the storyline, you need to rethink the importance of similar game mechanics in the game.
Click to expand...
Well, let's suppose for a moment that that the Pokemon world indeed was changed from a connect the dots across the map, to being dropped in the middle of a circle and told "Go in any direction." I don't care if there are places with powerful trainers waiting to test your might, but using them as a gauge for progress charts your path for you. Ok, sure: say there were 7 powerful trainers across the land, who you could challenge in any order at varying levels of difficulty and get bronze, silver, or gold badges for it. Badges would have been changed from mere check points to trophies. YOU make your goal in this game, and if you want to be the best battler so be it. Maybe you are catching them all, perhaps you want certain rare pokemon, you may want to collect certain items, you could be trying to get to that certain area, contests might be your cup of tea, or more likely your mission will change every day. Sure there may be many quests along the way, but the overall adventure is as grand as you make it. And it's all so you can have the personal satisfaction, and to show off to your friends.

I felt proud about beating the Elite four... ONCE. I HAD to do that. Everyone did... the same way... and we've been doing it ever since.
Click to expand...

There needs to be some sort of goal to the main game, otherwise the game feels too overwhelming and pointless. It's already got infinite replay value in theory, and while that's usually a good thing, it gives the player a hard time determining when they should stop. Make it so there's no primary objective to the game and it'll get boring and tedious a lot quicker.
 
I like the gym leaders and elite four setup.

The game centers around battling and I don't think they should get rid of it (though they can definitely add on to it).

I think there needs to be more focus on post game stuff like a Battle Frontier, rebattling entire gyms, and completely new places where people can have that freedom to do whatever they want.
 
I'd say that's accurate, I don't really buy (or play) Pokémon games any more because they bore me.
On Pokémon seeming more like our friends, i really liked in hg/ss how the guys followed you around i thought that was cute why didn't they keep it
✌☹✌
 
juunkmilk said:
I'd say that's accurate, I don't really buy (or play) Pokémon games any more because they bore me.
On Pokémon seeming more like our friends, i really liked in hg/ss how the guys followed you around i thought that was cute why didn't they keep it
✌☹✌
Click to expand...

It didn't return in BW1 because it was in development about the same time as HGSS, but it had every reason to return in BW2. Hopefully it'll be back for good in 6th gen, along with other things like Vs. Seeker which should never, ever be removed from a Pokemon game.
 
I would hate a Pokemon game like Animal Crossing. Maybe I'm just not a fan of those games that you play forever without really getting anywhere. Minecraft is an obvious exception, as it's an epitome of creative expression.
 
Bolt the Cat said:
juunkmilk said:
I'd say that's accurate, I don't really buy (or play) Pokémon games any more because they bore me.
On Pokémon seeming more like our friends, i really liked in hg/ss how the guys followed you around i thought that was cute why didn't they keep it
✌☹✌
Click to expand...

It didn't return in BW1 because it was in development about the same time as HGSS, but it had every reason to return in BW2. Hopefully it'll be back for good in 6th gen, along with other things like Vs. Seeker which should never, ever be removed from a Pokemon game.
Click to expand...

I know right? The VS Seeker was the best item ever. Great way to make money.
 
I think it would be fun to have a game where you are a coordinator. It would be different.

And, no, the Gyms are not holding Pokemon back.
 
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