Ruling Attacking from Bench?

NotSeen

NotSeen

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hi guys!

Long time no see! This time I'd like to ask a question, if it is possible or not to attacking from Bench. Due to this card, which not sepcify, that the attacking Pokémon have to be active, I understand it in the sense, you attach it to any of your Pokémon, including those on your Bench and the Pokémon that card is attached to, can use attack it stays on the card. So, does it mean, that the Pokémon rwally does not need to be active?

By the way, another small questions:
1) How long lasts the effect of this Porygon's attack “Conversion 1”? Only one turn or until the affected Pokémon retreats/faints?
2) Is it a bug in PTCGO, or you really can play supporter card from your hand, when this Vileplume is in play?
3) If an attacks reads “Put xy damage counters on the defending Pokémon / 1 of your opponent's Pokémon”, does it mean, that:
a) it is not affected by weakness and resistance
b) cards like Eviolite, Defender, PlusPower or Rocky Helmet will not activate
c) Abilities like Bouffer or Rough Skin will not activate
(there are "+" between a, b and c)?

Thansk for answers ;-)
 
For the bigger question, no, Attacking from the bench is never ever an option. Only the active pokemon may attack. There are cards like Mew EX that let you use your bench Pokemon's attacks as its own, however Mew EX Is still the attacker, and it is still in the active position when it uses its attack.

For your smaller questions:
1) The effect lasts as long as the defending pokemon is active. All effects are removed when a pokemon moves to the bench, however, so if it retreats, then its weakness will go back to normal.
2) You may play supporter cards when Vileplume is in play. The only cards Vileplume prevents are Items (like Switch), Technical Machines (like the one you linked to above) or Pokemon Tools (like Expert Belt.) Supporters and Stadiums are fair game.

3 a) Placing damgae counters is considered an effect of an attack, not doing direct damage. Therefore, placing damage counters is not affected by weakness or resistance.
B) These cards will not activate. Placing damage counters, again is considered an effect of an attack, while those cards only activate/affect the total amount of direct damage being done. Therefore they do not activate/affect the total amount of damage counters being placed.
C) This is also correct. Because you are placing damage counters and not doing direct damage, Bouffer and Rough Skin are useless.

/me shades
 
By definition, a Pokemon must be Active in order to attack, no matter what. Even a Mew-EX must be Active in order to attack.

1) It will last until the attack target evolves, moves to the bench, or leaves the field.
2) It's not a bug. That Vileplume prohibits only Item cards being played from the hand. (from DP to HGSS, Trainer cards only referred to Items. Supporters and Stadiums were not considered Trainer cards.)
3) Yes to all 3 of those things. Putting damage counters on a Pokemon is not the same thing as doing damage directly.

teapot I will end you
 
The attacking Pokemon has to be the active Pokemon. You can't attack from the bench.

1) The effect of “Conversion 1” sticks indefinitely, but things like benching, evolving, etc. the affected pokemon will erase it. Otherwise it stays in place till it is knocked out.

2) It is not a bug, it is from an old set and it has been ruled that it only refers to items. You can play supporters and stadiums with that vileplume, but not items.

3) The main thing to realize is placing damage counters is not "doing damage". So nothing that reduces or increases damage done will affect it. Everything you said in part 3 is correct.
 
TPO3: Thansk a lot, only: Even the Supporters and Stadium are specified like trainers (or maybe more correctly trainer cards). If the Vileplume could only block items, then it'd be specified, like in those cases:
Gothitelle (newer print), Stoutland, Spiritomb. Because, when we come to oldest cards, where trainers were no split on so many sub-groups, what would this Dark Vileplume blocks nowadays (and what it blocked in its era)? I mean: if this is not concretely specified, then it'd be fair to not play any trainer cards. There's actually written: “… your opponent cant' play any Trainer cards…”
If there are any exceptions on older cards, it is mentioned directly on the card: Vileplume ex, Houndoom; while in the case of Vileplume from Undaunted, there's nothing like this.

“EDIT” Before I finished writting this, I read other Professor's replies, so I have another question: What is supporter and stadium, if not a trainer (card)? There are still only 3 types of card in PTCG: Pokémon, energy ad trainer, even if it is named Tool, Item, Supporter or whatever, isn't it? Ale of the categorized (trainer) cards have similar effet: to support the game, make an advantage or disadvantage for one or another player (immediately or nearly permanently in the case of stadiums)…
 
If the Vileplume could only block items, then it'd be specified, like in those cases:
Click to expand...

Ahem:

DNA said:
(from DP to HGSS, Trainer cards only referred to Items. Supporters and Stadiums were not considered Trainer cards.)
Click to expand...

During the Diamond/Pearl/Platinum and HeartGold/SoulSilver era, Supporters and Stadiums were not considered Trainer cards. In all other times in the TCG, they were subcategories of Trainer cards. The sub-distinction "Item" didn't even exist until BW1. (Though, if you want to be technical, the Goods distinction was around in Japan since HS1.)

So, for cards printed between Diamond&Pearl and Call of Legends, Trainer, Supporter, and Stadium cards were all different and did not overlap (look at Vileplume LA for an example). For all other eras of the TCG (Base Set to Power Keepers, then Black&White to present), the distinction 'Trainer card' is subdivided into 3: the 'basic' Trainer cards, now known as 'Item'; Supporter cards; and Stadium cards.

tl;dr: Just look at the underlined bit.
...or just look at every Vileplume card ever printed and compare them to the Legends Awakened one.
 
DNA: Dark Vileplume from Oldest Team Rocket. In those era, there were no such groups like Supporter. What it blocks? In my opinion, this blocks everything. Whether it's called “apple” or “pear”. It's still a “fruit”.
Btw., in unlimited format: would the mentioned Dark Vileplume blocks both versions of Bill (the newer print is Supporter, while the older not)?
And just for sure: I “edited” my post before I posted it and on the bottom I wrote I noted you wrote that in DPPt/HG/SS era were supportes and stadium not considered like Trainer. I'm just a bit frustrated, that the Undaunted Vileplume is actually useless, when it not blocks everything.
But now I'm hoping, that in X/Y era sees the light new card (maybe Vileplume again), which will be blocking really all “species” of trainer cards.
Anyway, thanks for reply.

And another question: what will this Gengar ex or this Vileplume “punish”? “Apple” or “fruit”?
 
It's been ruled that any card that references "Trainer cards" printed (except during DP-CoL) references Item, Supporter, and Stadium cards. Thus, Hayfever prevents all 3 of those cards from being played (even though it was printed in a time before the split existed).

Vileplume UD isn't exactly useless; blocking Items is a huge thing - this was much more apparent when the format revolved more around Item cards (and, to an extent, it still does). It saw an increase in play right about when Catcher was released.
 
Guys,

I need to clarify some discrepancies:
1) I use this Maractus in one of my decks in PTCGO. It's first attack needs coin flipping, but there is written, it does xy damage according to number of heads.
I often face this Bouffalant even with or without Eviolite or Rocky Helmet. But every time I get at least one heads, neither Tools nor the Ability activates. I understand, that the damage isn't written next to attack name, but it is direct damge, isn't it? It even applies weakness and resistance to it, it is not placing damage counters, it is doing damage, so what I am missing?

2) Another case is this Uxie or e.g. Chandelure EX. If I use Uxie's Psypower, it constantly breaks through Mr. Mime's Bench Barrier, although it is damge from an attack. How's it possible?

Thanks for answers ;-)
 
1) You are correct in saying that it is correct damage. If you're hitting through the Ability or the Pokemon Tools, it must be some kind of glitch in the system.

2) Because you're not doing direct damage, again you are placing damage counters which is a completely different effect than doing direct damage. Mr. Mime only prevents doing direct damage, such as through Darkrai EX's Nigh Spear. Placing damage counters is completely different and will not be affected by Mr. Mime.
 
1) I can only assume that PTCGO is erroneously programmed that the base damage of the attack is zero since there is no "large black number". Makes you almost wish they'd bring back the "?".
 
TCGO is bugged and is not an authoritative source for rulings or game mechanics.
 
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