Ban Mewtwo EX?

[Dork Void]

Wha? NA Mewtwo EX went from $75 to $50 a piece? On eBay it's valued at $60-70 for the NA and the FA is around $75-80 a piece. At best the price value only went down by $10 or $5 on Mewtwo EX. That's not very much when the Secondary Market is making it difficult for players to compete without Mewtwo.

You will be hard pressed to find ANYONE who is willing to sell or trade a Mewtwo EX at your local card shop that's not online and If you do consider yourself very lucky. Most of my friends who have Mewtwo EX can't trade or sell it cause of how much of a staple card it's become in a majority of decks.

That's right, we should ban Pokemon Collector too while we're at it. Its used in just about every deck, and almost always in 4s, which is considerably more than Mewtwo. Its an unbelievably good card and the only real replacement for it in a deck is flippy and luck-based, which nobody likes. Really, the only thing worse about Mewtwo is that it costs a little more, which is helping TPCi; therefore, they wouldn't ban Mewtwo. Obviously, the problem is Collector, not Mewtwo, and Pokemon Collector should be banned because it is a staple card.

/sarcasm (about the banning Collector parts, anyway)

You don't ban a card because its staple or semi-staple, and you don't ban a card because its too expensive; you ban it if it dominates the meta, which Mewtwo it does not. There are top tier decks that don't run Mewtwo (Durant, Terrakion) and there is no actual deck for Mewtwo as their was for Sneasel. Its not a matter of who can get their Mewtwo out first; but who drops it second, and that means it requires strategy to play it correctly rather than the luck of topdecking it.

 

[dbgoldberg323]

It's interesting to hear people's opinions on here on why Mewtwo EX should be banned and also why it shouldn't be. So many people think they have it figured out and speak in absolutes even though they are just voicing an "opinion" lololol.

So here's my two cents, and this is just my "opinion". RANT MODE ACTIVATED!

Now, I'm no noob to the TCG but I am to this specific meta. I don't have the experience in this meta to be able to say that Mewtwo EX isn't completely dominating every deck and making it into the top 8 at all the big tournaments, or that he can't roflpwn everything that's out there if run properly. Over the next few months I might be able to say differently as I get back into the swing of things. However, if you want an outsider's opinion (as in someone just walking into this meta), I look at the card and I just shake my head in disgust, disbelief, and disappointment.

Why wouldn't every competitive deck spam 4x of this? 4x Mewtwo EX's, not to mention Revives, Super Scoop Ups, Switches, Seekers, Twins for Mewtwo EX and a DCE, etc, along with Plus Powers, Pokemon Catchers (*cough* GUST OF WIND *cough*), etc. I'm sorry, but maybe it's the old day-one Pokemon TCG player in me that sees the Haymaker-equivalent bad-assery in Mewtwo EX and wonders why people aren't taking advantage of this card like a $2 hooker. That's my problem with this card is that it could be spammed, and it might very well be in September after BW-on becomes the new "modified" format.

As for the price, yes it's absurd but who cares - competitive decks cost money, sorry. People say "look at Yu-Gi-Oh or MTG" but they pale in comparison to hobbies like 40k/Warmachine or real hobbies like racing or gun collecting.

Overall, I think the card looks cool and it's probably awesome to obliterate stuff with, but I'm not sure it's necessary or adds all this "strategy" that people are wildly claiming. Those of us who have been around this game (and hundreds of others) for a while see this card and think "easy mode" or "crutch".

Why can't Stage 2 decks be viable? It's because of cards like this that limit what you can do in the competitive environment because it's too good to NOT use in that type of environment. I read a comment on this board a few days ago that I think makes my point:

"Don't ever let your opponent know you don't have a Mewtwo EX in your deck because if they do they will tutor for theirs, play it, [ram it down your throat] and make you regret that you don't own any."

The comments about "the card adds strategy to this game because you have to learn how to deal with it" make me giggle. So, the strategy and depth it adds is just knowing how to get rid of it? Wow, that's deep. No, as I said this is an "easy mode" card and it's disappointing so many decks rely on it (or at least seem to).

I really really hope that when I get all the boxes of cards I've ordered, assemble a deck, and run down to my local game store, that the good players aren't all spamming the shit out of Mewtwo EX and making me wish I stayed out of the game.

[/rant]

So, I will certainly learn how to play against decks that run him so I can become a better player. I look forward to it. Then maybe I can start to show people how to have fun with this amazing game without relying on easy-mode cards. Good players don't need the gimmicks to win.

 

[DecaDang]

There's only one subset of decks that relies on Mewtwo.
There's no spamming involved with the card.
Most decks don't even run 4 Mewtwo because THEY DON'T HAVE TO.

I have trouble taking your opinions to heart if you admit to not knowing a lot about the current meta.

 

[Card Slinger J]

You don't ban a card because its staple or semi-staple, and you don't ban a card because its too expensive; you ban it if it dominates the meta, which Mewtwo it does not. There are top tier decks that don't run Mewtwo (Durant, Terrakion) and there is no actual deck for Mewtwo as their was for Sneasel. Its not a matter of who can get their Mewtwo out first; but who drops it second, and that means it requires strategy to play it correctly rather than the luck of topdecking it.

How does Mewtwo EX not dominate the meta, you need to run 3 copies in one deck to win a Mewtwo War much less 2 Mewtwo to try to win a Mewtwo War If you're tight on budget. Durant and Terrakion while they are solid decks in the format haven't made as many top cuts or won the most amount of States compared to CMT and ZekEels. While Terrakion is designed to be an Anti-Metagame deck it struggles against CMT, and Durant well it's pretty easy to beat.

CMT/MTC is BDIF because it's beaten ZekEels enough times to get there, sure people say ZekEels has the edge against CMT but I don't think so and that's partially because ZekEels had to struggle against Terrakion to get where it's at now. It's very tough to win a Mewtwo War If you go second with it and to make matters worse If you open the game with it that makes it much easier for them to get 2 prizes off of your Mewtwo with X Ball as well.

The Pokemon TCG has basically become the Mewtwo TCG.

 

[Slowbro]

What is this pessimistic thread #10? I don't mean to be rude, but seriously... Mewtwo is a splashable tech, and does not need to be banned. If you can't afford any more, run quad Terrakion, Durant, or Meesiemew. No need to ban a card that just injects more skill in the game.

 

[dbgoldberg323]

I have trouble taking your opinions to heart if you admit to not knowing a lot about the current meta.

Well that's exactly why I said "I don't know enough about this meta". However, if you would have read my post you would see that I'm offering not only an outside opinion on Mewtwo EX, but a veteran's opinion as well. I know how amazing this card can be and I see the seal-clubbing potential in it.

There's only one subset of decks that relies on Mewtwo.

Which "one subset" of decks is that? ZekEels? Gardevoir + Mewtwo EX? Eeleks + Mewtwo EX? Gardevoir + Mewtwo EX + Eeleks? And are you judging this off of your own experience at your local game store or have you gone to larger events, events in other states, nationals, worlds, etc? And are you forgetting about the myriad of decks that run 1-2 of him just to protect against that "one subset" and thus constitute their own subset that also needs to be paid attention to?

There's no spamming involved with the card.
Most decks don't even run 4 Mewtwo because THEY DON'T HAVE TO.

No need to shout bro.
Right, because it works with 2-3 Mewtwo EX's, but more than one meta-type can and do run more than one of it because it's either too good not to, or you need it as a hard counter to other people's Mewtwo EX's.

Do you understand now what I'm trying to say?

 

[Card Slinger J]

What is this pessimistic thread #10? I don't mean to be rude, but seriously... Mewtwo is a splashable tech, and does not need to be banned. If you can't afford any more, run quad Terrakion, Durant, or Meesiemew. No need to ban a card that just injects more skill in the game.

I could try to get a 3rd Mewtwo EX for my ZekEels deck but is it worth it? Depends, If you open the game with it alot with no way of switching to a benched Pokemon then it's going to be a problem for you. I refuse to tear apart a deck I've worked hard on that is one of the best decks in the format for a deck that I wouldn't do just as good with otherwise. I think that If I had the chance again in a tournament I could do extremely well with ZekEels compared to how badly I did with MagEels at States which proved that Stage 2's don't have a place in the meta anymore.

Durant requires no skill, Terrakion has trouble winning against CMT, and Messie Mew while it does well against CMT and Mewtwo spam, seems a bit too frail to be good to top cut in the current format. Mewtwo does inject skill to the game but in a way where one opponent won't be able to setup fast enough to counter for it. I've tried to win Mewtwo War's countless times and for some reason have failed to do so cause I couldn't setup fast enough or Catcher screwed me over. As much as I hate to admit this you may need 3 Mewtwo in a deck to win a Mewtwo War than you would with just 2. 4 may be overkill but it might be the most efficient way If your deck is mainly devoted to just winning Mewtwo Wars.

 

[Jirachi]

I don't think so. I think 2 mewtwo is usually enough in a zekeels deck.
I agree with everyone who said that mewtwo does not need to get banned. Why does it need to? Its a good card that raises your strategy and stuff. Just because its too expensive or "over-powered" does not mean it needs to be banned. Since its a counter and a good attacker, it just raises you skill level and strategy.

 

[dbgoldberg323]

Mewtwo does inject skill to the game but in a way where one opponent won't be able to setup fast enough to counter for it.

Exactly. That's not skill. It's like I said, if the only "skill" it provides is just learning how to deal with it, that's not "skill".

As much as I hate to admit this you may need 3 Mewtwo in a deck to win a Mewtwo War than you would with just 2. 4 may be overkill but it might be the most efficient way If your deck is mainly devoted to just winning Mewtwo Wars.

Agreed. Just having one in a deck means escalation for everyone.

Its a good card that raises your strategy and stuff. ... Since its a counter and a good attacker, it just raises you skill level and strategy.

Yeah, cuz like, skill and stuff and strategy and yeah. Like, yeah!

I'm sorry, but in my opinion there is zero skill, talent, or strategy associated with a card as beefed up as Mewtwo EX. To repeat what I said earlier, it's an "easy mode" card, and is a "crutch" for bad players to catch up to skilled players because of the inherent power that card provides.

I'm not saying it needs to be banned. I just think it should be limited/restricted to ensure the survival of a healthy meta, and to prevent new players from being discouraged.

 

[Card Slinger J]

I don't think so. I think 2 mewtwo is usually enough in a zekeels deck.

You need 3 Mewtwo in ZekEels If you want to win the Mewtwo War, this is a known fact that was recently proven in States. Running Revives and Super Rods to make up for it would only make the deck less consistent as it would just buy a turn for your opponent to swing the game in their favor anyway.

 

[iisnumber12]

You need 3 Mewtwo in ZekEels If you want to win the Mewtwo War, this is a known fact that was recently proven in States. Running Revives and Super Rods to make up for it would only make the deck less consistent as it would just buy a turn for your opponent to swing the game in their favor anyway.

Last time I checked Mewtwo Wars didn't start on turn 1. A smart Zekeels player will take 2 Prizes with something else and time is right so their opponent has 1 prize left when they send up their last/second Mewtwo EX. Mewtwo wars aren't hard to win if your playing 3 turns ahead.

 

[RogueChomp]

As mush as a freakin hate Mewtwo EX, they shouldn't just ban it like that. Think about it: Peopl spend 50$ to 100$+ on Mewtwo Exs. All of sudden- BANNED. Then, you can definitally expect riots. As broken as Mewtwo Ex is in this format, there is no reason to ban it. It would just tick everyone off, and now you can expect it like a staple. Kinda like Sableye SF.....Except very different lol.

 

[27th_wonder]

If you can't afford any more, run quad Terrakion, Durant, or Meesiemew.

this is why I dislike mewtwo EX, because it restricts those who don't have it to a very small pool of competitive decks to play from. how many messie-mew or durant decks have taken tournament wins since next-destinies was released? Compared to the amount of tournement winning lists with mewtwo EX in them?

while I'm glad that there is a new staple card that can slot into any deck that supports DCE, the $50 price is unbearable for those of us without a decent income.

Rather than banning the card, they should have made it a promo card, like they did with flip-tini. It's by no means broken, it is elitest to nature, to the point where the game is no longer about skill, but how many mewtwo EX you can afford.

 

[PumpedAaron]

Personally, I had a lot of trouble with Mewtwo EX early on, but then I just got better at Pokemon and I'm able to beat him pretty well with Donphan Swarm/Machamp :/ . So meh, I don't have many complaints anymore...

 

[DecaDang]

There's no need to fight against a Mewtwo with your own if you can play well enough. I feel like Mewtwo haters think that that's the only option to fight with when it really isn't. Sure, it's good, but not necessarily the best.

Example from today:
I play my friend and through deck search figure out that my Mewtwo is prized. He has two out. So what can I do?
Eventually his is starting to sweep and he's at 1 prize to my 2. Mewtwo is still in my prizes.
I play Zekrom-EX, PlusPower, Junk Arm. Game.

So yes, Mewtwo adds tons of skill to the game. Was it impossible for me to beat it without my own? Nope.

 

[iisnumber12]

There's no need to fight against a Mewtwo with your own if you can play well enough. I feel like Mewtwo haters think that that's the only option to fight with when it really isn't. Sure, it's good, but not necessarily the best.

Example from today:
I play my friend and through deck search figure out that my Mewtwo is prized. He has two out. So what can I do?
Eventually his is starting to sweep and he's at 1 prize to my 2. Mewtwo is still in my prizes.
I play Zekrom-EX, PlusPower, Junk Arm. Game.

So yes, Mewtwo adds tons of skill to the game. Was it impossible for me to beat it without my own? Nope.

What he should have done was attack with Mewtwo when you had 1 Prize left to avoid what happened. He should have swept with other attacker until then. Or N'd you at 2 prizes.

 

[dbgoldberg323]

There's no need to fight against a Mewtwo with your own if you can play well enough. I feel like Mewtwo haters think that that's the only option to fight with when it really isn't. Sure, it's good, but not necessarily the best.

Example from today:
I play my friend and through deck search figure out that my Mewtwo is prized. He has two out. So what can I do?
Eventually his is starting to sweep and he's at 1 prize to my 2. Mewtwo is still in my prizes.
I play Zekrom-EX, PlusPower, Junk Arm. Game.

So yes, Mewtwo adds tons of skill to the game. Was it impossible for me to beat it without my own? Nope.

There are obviously countless ways around Mewtwo EX, each requiring different levels of luck to pull off (luck of the draw, field situation, etc). You could use a Basic 40 HP Pokemon to do 10 damage for 17 turns. Who cares? No, it does not add skill to the game; it adds a cheap gimmick for untalented people looking for an "easy mode" card. Again, the only "skill" it provides is learning how to deal with that one card alone. Where's all this magical "additional" skill and strategery that this card provides? Oh wait, there is none.

But again, I don't expect the new players to get it. This discussion is going in circles now with comments like "but it's cool" and equivalent. I think most people in this discussion have made their points.

At the end of the day I don't think it should be banned, but I don't think it needs to be legal at 4x. We got along just fine without a Mewtwo EX this powerful, and we will continue to do so post BW rotation. Now it's just a matter of convincing people to use some real skill and build decks without him. *GASP*

 

[alex]

What he should have done was attack with Mewtwo when you had 1 Prize left to avoid what happened. He should have swept with other attacker until then. Or N'd you at 2 prizes.

It was just an example to prove his point, no need to question the opponent's moves. For all we know they were his only attackers left. Also, if it was better than the other attackers he had, he might as well use it. Catcher would make the situation end up the exact same way.

 

[Jirachi]

I don't think the price should be a reason to dislike it. What if you had like 2-3 mewtwos? I think then you would be saying otherwise. The card itself is good but some of you think it should be banned because of its price.

 

[Blui]

As mush as a freakin hate Mewtwo EX, they shouldn't just ban it like that. Think about it: Peopl spend 50$ to 100$+ on Mewtwo Exs. All of sudden- BANNED. Then, you can definitally expect riots. As broken as Mewtwo Ex is in this format, there is no reason to ban it. It would just tick everyone off, and now you can expect it like a staple. Kinda like Sableye SF.....Except very different lol.

Wait, there couldn't be riots, why? Because we spent all our money on these and have none for basic riot weapons (eg. crowbar, sledge hammer ect.)
Still I also think this is not ban worthy, give X-Ball a energy cost of 0 then it's ban worthy