Benchsitters for M Ray Discussion Thread

Exeggutor is a really good option now that you presented it. Of course it relies on a flip, but it also brings in the option to Blockade on tricky situations, and with 90 damage on a heads it OHKO both Seismitoad and the Safeguarders.

I'll have to do some testing when the set comes out comparing Exeggutor with the Genesect from LT though, since it does the same amount of damage with an extra grass attachment but without a flip, and it's an extra bench sitter wich can bring more versatility by itself. By what I've been testing so far, it would be hard to fit in one or two Fliptinis without ditching something like a megaphone or a switch, wich are always good to have hanging around.
 
Why not use the exeqquter from the new set. With the same energy requirments it can do at least 160 damage to a seismitoad EX with out having to rely on a filp and with a muscle band it will ohko that and the current safeguarders
 
Ironman131 said:
Why not use the exeqquter from the new set. With the same energy requirments it can do at least 160 damage to a seismitoad EX with out having to rely on a filp and with a muscle band it will ohko that and the current safeguarders
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Muscle Band is useless against Toad unless you play it Turn 1. And then, you're probably going to lose that exeggcute that has it.
 
Even the it is a guarenteed 160 against Seismitoad EX, where as the old exeqquter is only a guarenteed 120. And it will be in the format longer.
 
Ironman131 said:
Even the it is a guarenteed 160 against Seismitoad EX, where as the old exeqquter is only a guarenteed 120. And it will be in the format longer.
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The difference between a OHKO and 2HKO is monumental in the current metagame. While you may see a huge difference between 20 HP left and 60 HP left, in reality both are roughly the same - this deck will not deal less than 60 damage in almost any circumstance where it's dealing damage. You're not running bats, you're not running laserbank, and I'll explain why you'll not be running Muscle Band also later.

It's simple to understand why dealing 160 damage to a Toad and dealing 120 damage are roughly the same in this deck. Both are going to require 2 turns to knock out the Toad. If you're taking 2 turns, you're giving your opponent a chance to Max Potion or retreat the Toad and you're taking a hit right into the face, wich can possibly be from another pokémon other than toad that has the potential to one-shot Exeggutor. If you're able to OHKO Seismitoad with a 90 damage lucky flip, all these risks are gone, it's an easy 2 prize you're getting and your Exeggutor can potentially survive for another OHKO on another Seismitoad, meaning that the 1 Exeggutor you could manage to fit in with much effort won you 4 prizes.

Using the 80 damage Exeggutor is problematic because there is no way you're going to squeeze those 20 damage in this deck. The build is so out of space that filling in 2 Muscle Bands exclusively for this (because you're not running them on the M Ray) would mean cutting on stuff that actually supports the M Ray set up. Even if you could fit 2 Muscle Bands in, in Seismitoad match-ups you're not getting any chance of putting them down after their first attack, like CruelBear said.

As for the format concerns, we don't think about that until things rotate out. The lists are done and revised every new rotation, you're not capping yourself because of rotations that are only going to happen months from now.
 
Yes i know how to play the game so dont talk to me like I am stupid. I said the new exeqqutor because there is less more potential damage output. The old one will most definatly be rotated out with the next rotation. If you see you are playing against a toad deck then play as many of your item cards as you can, you dont hold them, so with the propagation egg you can easily get one set up with a muscle band in the turn before your oppenent quaking punches you, and then you could use wally to get the exeqquter turn one or you could just draw into it. Seismitoad EX wont be very problematic for this deck anyways M Rayquaza EX will be set up rather quickly with the delta evolution trait and has a much larger damage output than seismitoad EX and will out power it quickly.
 
In that case, Exeggutor is not needed :p

Just pointing that out.
 
Vom said:
In that case, Exeggutor is not needed :p

Just pointing that out.
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There are still Safeguarders out there. There is need for a non-EX attacker, we just need to figure out which one. Grass ones are the most useful ones in this case because of their good ability to also fare well against Toads; in the case they are knocked out, it's just one prize card that won't matter if the game closes up with an EX knock-out.


Extra concern for those considering Exeggcute: Crobat decks will be able to feed off your Eggs really fast. Try to hold benching Exeggcutes as much as you can against those matchups.
 
RideLith said:
Vom said:
In that case, Exeggutor is not needed :p

Just pointing that out.
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There are still Safeguarders out there. There is need for a non-EX attacker, we just need to figure out wich one. Grass ones are the most useful ones in this case because of their good ability to also fare well against Toads; in the case they are knocked out, it's just one prize card that won't matter if the game closes up with an EX knock-out.


Extra concern for those considering Exeggcute: Crobat decks will be able to feed off your Eggs really fast. Try to hold benching Exeggcutes as much as you can against those matchups.
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While safeguarders are still out there I don't think they are that popular. I can't think of any popular decks right now that play them (I don't count Donphan as popular anymore).

Exeggutor actually really helps against Seis on the other hand (like you said). They tend to rely on supporters quite a bit.
 
Empoleon seems like a friend of mega ray. He can help draw into the cards that will help get mega rays rolling and is a natural friend of exeggcute who also pairs well. with skyfield empoleon will be looking at a decent damage output too, hitting for at least 100 if you have a full bench, and up to 180 (unlikely).
 
Pipotchi said:
Empoleon seems like a friend of mega ray. He can help draw into the cards that will help get mega rays rolling and is a natural friend of exeggcute who also pairs well. with skyfield empoleon will be looking at a decent damage output too, hitting for at least 100 if you have a full bench, and up to 180 (unlikely).
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As much as I'd love to see Empoleon in the deck, I doubt there's enough room for a decent line of it. Maybe a 2-0-2 or 2-1-2 with Wally. Unless you severely cut down on support Pokemon, and I don't think that's a terribly good idea. It also really doesn't help the lightning weakness, especially if you have to cut Altaria to fit it. I love Empoleon, and I'd love to see someone prove me wrong with it in this deck, but I just don't think it's going to work too well.
 
Aromatisse, Slurpuff ( tasting and sweet Veil), xerneas, xerneas EX, The newest Mr. Mime. or

Bronzong with other metal attackers/ other coloress attackers and techs. or

Hydreigon ( Dark Trance/ Dark aurua), Absol, Yveltal EX, Yveltal, Darkrai EX/ other colorless attackers and techs
 
Ryokoichi said:
What about the Faries?
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I was actually thinking about Aromatisse, and it might be doable. The only question, is if it's really worth it. Sure, you can move all the Energy off and max potion every turn; but it's not that terribly hard to power up another Rayquaza as it is. If this was a Dragon Rayquaza, it might be worth it since you could move DDE, but as it is, I think I'd rather just keep attaching my DCE and save the space.
 
CruelBear said:
Pipotchi said:
Empoleon seems like a friend of mega ray. He can help draw into the cards that will help get mega rays rolling and is a natural friend of exeggcute who also pairs well. with skyfield empoleon will be looking at a decent damage output too, hitting for at least 100 if you have a full bench, and up to 180 (unlikely).
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As much as I'd love to see Empoleon in the deck, I doubt there's enough room for a decent line of it. Maybe a 2-0-2 or 2-1-2 with Wally. Unless you severely cut down on support Pokemon, and I don't think that's a terribly good idea. It also really doesn't help the lightning weakness, especially if you have to cut Altaria to fit it. I love Empoleon, and I'd love to see someone prove me wrong with it in this deck, but I just don't think it's going to work too well.
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I dont think you would use a heavy line of empoleon at all. after all its much better to have lots of other non stage 2 bench sitters because they are so much easier to get into play. but empoleon is still great as a 1 or 2 on the bench so you could even just run 2 empoleon + an archie which gives you loads of room to work with for additional pokemon and very possible to get into play if you are already using battle compressors with exeggcute
 
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