Help Best Deck To Make My Little Brother

A

Anthony Mooney

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hello Everyone,

I just got into the game a week ago because my little brother (12) got into it, and I guess everyone at his school plays too.

Now, I am a 16 Year vet of both Yugioh and MTG. So I am already at a competitive level. The issue that I am having is introducing my bro to the deeper mechanics of the game, as well as explaining why you should hold a Lele sometimes instead of playing it. He is using the Gardovior World Champion deck, and the Golisopod World Championship deck.

My goal is to eventually bring him to tournaments with me, but I need to introduce him to what a Meta is. So, what decks are pretty straightforward and easy to use in the standard format right now? The first thing that came to mind was Vika Bulu. I am not familiar enough with the fringe decks yet to know what to build him, so any suggestions, or tips from people in my position would be really useful.

Thank You All!
 
Hello, Anthony, and welcome! To start, I'm in a similar boat. My now 8 year old son picked up the game awhile ago, but now wants to play others in a more serious manner. By proxy, I've learned the game and cpme.to enjoy it. Also an old MtG player from way back in the late 90s.

One I've seen recommended quite a bit is Vika Bulu. It's a bit inconsistent, but when it's on, it works very well. I've only played against it on PTCGO, abd never played it myself.

Another would be Volcanion. It's not as strong as it used to be as it srruggles to hit some of the key damage figures, but its win conditions are very straight forward, it's consistent, and it sets up fast. This one I've played for a long time.

Also, check out metal decks. Ultra Prism had s pre release last weekend, with full release on the 2nd, I believe. Metal got a lot of support and key attackers in the deck. The premise behind them is straight forward; get a Dusk Mane Necrozma (or other key attacker) powered up, hit for big damage, recover discarded energy, and repeat. They are untested, but have potential.

Finally, I recommend agaisnt buying championship decks in the future. They are tournament legal, and for the cost of some paper and printer ink, you can print proxy cards, which do the same thing, for free. You can then try out whatever you come up with.

Gpod luck, and have fun!
 
@Anthony Mooney

The short version is you may need to start over from scratch, and I disagree with @PokeDad924, at least in part.

The medium version is that Pokémon is deceptively simple. Paradoxically, both potential meanings of that phrase apply; aspects of it are even easier than it looks, while others are far, far harder. Coming into it from other TCG's means you know their shared skills, but you've got to not only learn the new stuff but unlearn some of the old because it doesn't work the same way. I've seen more than a few MtG and/or YGO players crash and burn, sometimes after a period of initial success, because they never got around to doing this. World Championship decks are great after you've learned the fundamentals or you never plan on using them except against each other deck versus deck (and depending on the year, not even then). They also serve a nice souvenir, whether you attended Worlds that year or not, and some Leagues allow their use outside of tournament play. They are a bad way to learn the game, however, because what works in that specific deck may completely backfire in another. It is like learning how to run before you know how to walk. ;)

Until recently, most Theme Decks you can buy were junk, only useful for giving people a very, very simplified taste of the game. That changed with the Sun & Moon series of releases. You're still not going to create a competitive deck based on a Theme Deck, but they are good for teaching the game and for use against each other. Well, most of them; I can detail which ones I believe are best if you're interested. Another thing to try is the Pokémon Trading Card Game Online. The bad news is you won't start with any of the SM-series Theme Decks, but some of the online-only ones you start with for free are decent. You can get the virtual versions of the real-world Theme Decks as in-game rewards by simply earning Tokens (in-game currency) and spending them at the in-game store, or use a redemption code found on a card included inside the physical Theme Decks you'd buy at various real-world stores. The pros and cons of each are pretty obvious, save that the PTCGO means you'll be able to try them out against not just each other, but people around the world (assuming your internet access is decent). You may not need this, but it sounds like it might be good for your brother. A potential litmus test is to look up what cards are heavily used, and see if you understand why; same for looking at the Ban List. When Lysandre's Trump Card became the first card to be banned in over a decade, I was so shocked that I brought it up in conversation with a friend who didn't play Pokémon but did play MtG. He thought it was funny and basically made fun of it because he couldn't see how such a card could cause problems. ¬_¬

Now, Theme Decks can still give a false impression of the game, but since you've already played with World Championship decks, I think you'll both be okay. Once you've taken are of these things, see if you want to invest further in the Pokémon TCG. The game may or may not seem like a bargain compared to some others, but it still costs quite a bit to get a good, competitive deck up and running, and more to keep it that way. The next expansion (SM - Ultra Prism) had Pre-Release events start this past weekend, officially releases February 2nd, and should become tournament legal by February 16th. It is hard to tell how much this will affect the metagame, at least to the precision most want when planning ahead with their purchases. Though the World Championships aren't until August, the 2017-2018 Season began last September IIRC and while we won't see a set rotation until after that, it looks like the Standard Format will lose the last of the XY-era cards and experience some significant changes. So I recommend just taking the last half of this tournament-year to ease into the game.

(The long version would involve me naming some of the competitive decks as you wanted, but it also involve me going into those differences between MtG and YGO I alluded to earlier, and would be two to three times as long of a post. XD)
 
Thank you guys for the input. Volcanion was one that I was also considering. It makes sense, and I know that he would like that one, as his playstyle seems to be on the aggro side.

Otaku, I definitely see why starting small would be of benefit. I also think that it would help with deck construction too. He is already starting to understand that multiple copies of cards you want to see is fundamental to the game. So that is a great sign of progression.

A huge difference in this game compared to others is the consistency. Pokemon does a great job at letting decks be crazy consistent, but not broken. This feels due to the Prize system and the way that damage sticks. Being crazy consistent allows a deck to make a gameplan and execute it almost every time. It also allows players to make a plan in game and find a way to follow that plan. That is what I am working on with him right now. I'll tell him, "What is the threat right now?" or "What are you going to try to do during this turn?" and have him make a plan to get there.

I have played chess for a long time, and I love the way that this deck has early, mid, and late game strategies. For instance, N vs Sycamore. If you are playing a certain matchup, should you Ultra Ball for a dead card before you Sycamore? There are so many things about this game that make it better in my opinion than the others. It feels more like a battle of Ideas rather than a battle of decks.
 
I'll go ahead and defer to Otaku on this. My thought process on the Championship decks was primarily money driven. I'm notoriously frugal (or, a tightwad, according to my wife).
 
I 100% agree with everything Otaku said (also R.I.P Trump card, I will keep you alive in unlimited). What I would add, though, is to not worry too much about the meta. I think you should just pick whatever you like to play the most, as long as it at least has potential. I'd give this advice to anyone, but even more so to newer players. Besides, it mainly comes down to the skill of the players. I've literally beaten Gardefoir GX decks with a Rayquaza/Electrik deck (which hasn't been meta since around 2013). You can play what you wanna play.

It should be noted that I am likely biased, since I have denounced the meta and am still playing ray/eels and fairy box. However, I think playing comfort picks can help you learn the game well. You can learn one deck really well and then start branching out.
 
I am also thinking about getting into Expanded instead of Standard since someone told me that it does not rotate, and so it seems like a better investment. I have already made Golisopod GX/Garbodor irl, and if I am going to buy cards for him, them they should at least be viable for a while.
 
Anthony Mooney said:
I am also thinking about getting into Expanded instead of Standard since someone told me that it does not rotate, and so it seems like a better investment. I have already made Golisopod GX/Garbodor irl, and if I am going to buy cards for him, them they should at least be viable for a while.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Expanded hasn't rotated for a long time. If you were to get into it, basically the go-to super-meta deck is Night March. It can get expensive, with all the Shaymin EXs and stuff, but it's probably still cheaper than other decks, since it usually runs less Tapu Lee GXs (which is a card that almost all decks run. I'm not saying you have to buy it, I didn't, but you should consider it if you really want to get a competitive deck). It's probably a bit cheaper than the other meta decks, though, since a large part of it is uncommon and common Pokemon.
 
Hope I didn't sound too harsh, @PokeDad924; other than having differing thoughts about World Championship decks, you had good "advanced" advice, at least as far as I measure things. My experience with newbies, converts, and even returning players is that it is so easy to overload on Pokémon by diving in... which is really depressing when you're friends with these people and realize that not only might they have come to enjoy the game had they paced themselves, but they may have spent all their disposable income on this game and now hate it. :(

For the same reason, I don't stop considering someone a newbie until they've got two full years of experience. Yes, that means I believe a newbie can win Worlds. XD The game just has such a long history, especially now, and there are things that are difficult to see unless you've been here through at least two full format rotations. This idea was actually most influenced by YGO, however; I'd meet players who were great... until the next significant release. Or ban list. Or new mechanic. Then boom: it all imploded because they had only a surface level understanding (what was good, not why). A dramatic shift meant they didn't know what was good, and they hadn't developed the skills to learn "why". Yeah, yeah, sounds pretty preachy of me, but I really like to help people avoid this fate. ^^'

@Anthony Mooney

So, let me explain two things:

1) Best Theme Decks with which to start.
2) Best non-booster product with which to start.

So far, the pattern seems to be that each set of SM-series Theme Decks is at least a little better than what came before it... except I think the two from SM - Crimson Invasion are a bit trickier to learn/use, and remember we're focused on that as much as solid choices for Theme Deck Versus Theme Deck matches. I think the most stable and best for teaching is a tie between the two from SM - Burning Shadows: "Rock Steady" and "Luminous Frost". Then come the SM - Crimson Invasion decks I mentioned, "Destruction Fang" and "Clanging Thunder". After that, "Steel Sun" and "Hidden Moon" from SM - Guardians Rising plus "Roaring Heat" from Sun & Moon. The other Sun & Moon decks aren't horrid, and "Forest Shadow" is notably better than "Bright Tide" but that is by the standards of Theme Decks past. With what we know about SM - Ultra Prism, you might want to wait for the two newest decks; it really is possible (maybe probable) they'll be the best Theme Decks we've ever gotten.

The next step after Theme Decks, or possibly an alternate first step, are the Battle Arena Decks. These were actually released to help players get into Expanded, and so they focus on older cards. However, they also come with some solid staples. The catch is that most of the good ones are old enough that the asking price is a bit high as a general entry point, unless you luck into one still on store shelves. They also aren't all equal; the Darkrai VS Mewtwo one is probably the best, closely followed by Keldeo VS Rayquaza.
 
Otaku said:
Hope I didn't sound too harsh, @PokeDad924; other than having differing thoughts about World Championship decks, you had good "advanced" advice, at least as far as I measure things. My experience with newbies, converts, and even returning players is that it is so easy to overload on Pokémon by diving in... which is really depressing when you're friends with these people and realize that not only might they have come to enjoy the game had they paced themselves, but they may have spent all their disposable income on this game and now hate it. :(

For the same reason, I don't stop considering someone a newbie until they've got two full years of experience. Yes, that means I believe a newbie can win Worlds. XD The game just has such a long history, especially now, and there are things that are difficult to see unless you've been here through at least two full format rotations. This idea was actually most influenced by YGO, however; I'd meet players who were great... until the next significant release. Or ban list. Or new mechanic. Then boom: it all imploded because they had only a surface level understanding (what was good, not why). A dramatic shift meant they didn't know what was good, and they hadn't developed the skills to learn "why". Yeah, yeah, sounds pretty preachy of me, but I really like to help people avoid this fate. ^^'

@Anthony Mooney

So, let me explain two things:

1) Best Theme Decks with which to start.
2) Best non-booster product with which to start.

So far, the pattern seems to be that each set of SM-series Theme Decks is at least a little better than what came before it... except I think the two from SM - Crimson Invasion are a bit trickier to learn/use, and remember we're focused on that as much as solid choices for Theme Deck Versus Theme Deck matches. I think the most stable and best for teaching is a tie between the two from SM - Burning Shadows: "Rock Steady" and "Luminous Frost". Then come the SM - Crimson Invasion decks I mentioned, "Destruction Fang" and "Clanging Thunder". After that, "Steel Sun" and "Hidden Moon" from SM - Guardians Rising plus "Roaring Heat" from Sun & Moon. The other Sun & Moon decks aren't horrid, and "Forest Shadow" is notably better than "Bright Tide" but that is by the standards of Theme Decks past. With what we know about SM - Ultra Prism, you might want to wait for the two newest decks; it really is possible (maybe probable) they'll be the best Theme Decks we've ever gotten.

The next step after Theme Decks, or possibly an alternate first step, are the Battle Arena Decks. These were actually released to help players get into Expanded, and so they focus on older cards. However, they also come with some solid staples. The catch is that most of the good ones are old enough that the asking price is a bit high as a general entry point, unless you luck into one still on store shelves. They also aren't all equal; the Darkrai VS Mewtwo one is probably the best, closely followed by Keldeo VS Rayquaza.
Click to expand...
I agree with basically everything, especially the two years thing. It took me about that long to finally start understanding the game well enough to go off on my own and theory craft my own decks, and have them be decent. Also, the, "Dark Hammer," Furious Fists theme deck is a pretty good one for theme vs theme matches. It has a Korinna, Sycamore, and Evosoda. It's one of the more consistent (for a theme deck) decks you can buy, besides the ones you mentioned.

The Battle arena decks are also amazing. You should almost skip theme decks and go straight to these, unless you really just don't know how to play. They still have fairly simple strats, and the playmat has the rules on it, but then you're also getting better cards.
 
@Otaku, you are perfectly fine. There's nothing wrongnwoth us havinf differing opinions. It would be a sad indeed if we didn't.

I will whole heartedly agree on the usefulness of theme decks. They are inexpensive ways to leanr the basics of the game, and while far from optimized, they still require strategies and complex thought to master. I will defer on battle arena decks as I have no experience with them.
 
My dude, they are just about to release the first actually decent theme decks in Ultra Prism.
Pick two of the Garchomp one, mix it, add other cards, a lele and make a few more adjustments and you're ready to go.
 
Anthony Mooney said:
Hello Everyone,

I just got into the game a week ago because my little brother (12) got into it, and I guess everyone at his school plays too.

Now, I am a 16 Year vet of both Yugioh and MTG. So I am already at a competitive level. The issue that I am having is introducing my bro to the deeper mechanics of the game, as well as explaining why you should hold a Lele sometimes instead of playing it. He is using the Gardovior World Champion deck, and the Golisopod World Championship deck.

My goal is to eventually bring him to tournaments with me, but I need to introduce him to what a Meta is. So, what decks are pretty straightforward and easy to use in the standard format right now? The first thing that came to mind was Vika Bulu. I am not familiar enough with the fringe decks yet to know what to build him, so any suggestions, or tips from people in my position would be really useful.

Thank You All!
Click to expand...

I personally believe that Alolan Ninetales GX is an extremely straight forward deck to play considering easy set up.
Vika-Bulu however I'm not to keen on, you have to know what cards you want to discard or play at what time, what cards
aren't useful in certain situations, to Rare Candy or to wait for more draw utility, etc.

Another suggestion I can make is that you could do BuzzRoc (Buzzwole Lycanroc) as that deck is extremely straight forward to learn to use
and only needs 1-2 Tapu Lele, although if you object the card, just shove in Remoraid/Octillery for constant draw support.
That's my opinion.

Thanks for reading, AFEX
 
Eltyr said:
My dude, they are just about to release the first actually decent theme decks in Ultra Prism.
Pick two of the Garchomp one, mix it, add other cards, a lele and make a few more adjustments and you're ready to go.
Click to expand...
This is neat, I was not aware of the Garchomp deck. Do you have a link that I could follow to get an idea of what this deck is capable of?
 
AFEX said:
I personally believe that Alolan Ninetales GX is an extremely straight forward deck to play considering easy set up.
Vika-Bulu however I'm not to keen on, you have to know what cards you want to discard or play at what time, what cards
aren't useful in certain situations, to Rare Candy or to wait for more draw utility, etc.

Another suggestion I can make is that you could do BuzzRoc (Buzzwole Lycanroc) as that deck is extremely straight forward to learn to use
and only needs 1-2 Tapu Lele, although if you object the card, just shove in Remoraid/Octillery for constant draw support.
That's my opinion.

Thanks for reading, AFEX
Click to expand...
Love the Buzzwole idea. I think that it would definitely fit his playstyle. The Ninetails is a good idea too, but I think that the aggression of the Buzzwole deck would be better.
 
Anthony Mooney said:
This is neat, I was not aware of the Garchomp deck. Do you have a link that I could follow to get an idea of what this deck is capable of?
Click to expand...
I have my decklist here but I doubt you can guess how it works if you don't know what it does, also I don't see videos on youtube as proxy VS. Gotta wait a few days.
(I actually did one but it's in Italian so I won't even bother linking it.)
 
Anthony Mooney said:
Love the Buzzwole idea. I think that it would definitely fit his playstyle. The Ninetails is a good idea too, but I think that the aggression of the Buzzwole deck would be better.
Click to expand...

Definitely
Here's a list:

3 Buzzwole-GX CIN 57
2 Rockruff GRI 73
2 Lycanroc-GX GRI 74
1 Remoraid BKT 31
1 Remoraid BKT 32
2 Octillery BKT 33
2 Regirock-EX FCO 43
1 Sudowoodo BKP 67
1 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60

4 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
4 N FCO 105
4 Guzma BUS 115
3 Brooklet Hill GRI 120
4 Ultra Ball SUM 135
4 Max Elixir BKP 102
4 Float Stone BKT 137
3 Choice Band GRI 121
1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
1 Field Blower GRI 125

9 Fighting Energy Energy 31
4 Strong Energy FCO 115
 
Anthony Mooney said:
Hello Everyone,

I just got into the game a week ago because my little brother (12) got into it, and I guess everyone at his school plays too.

Now, I am a 16 Year vet of both Yugioh and MTG. So I am already at a competitive level. The issue that I am having is introducing my bro to the deeper mechanics of the game, as well as explaining why you should hold a Lele sometimes instead of playing it. He is using the Gardovior World Champion deck, and the Golisopod World Championship deck.

My goal is to eventually bring him to tournaments with me, but I need to introduce him to what a Meta is. So, what decks are pretty straightforward and easy to use in the standard format right now? The first thing that came to mind was Vika Bulu. I am not familiar enough with the fringe decks yet to know what to build him, so any suggestions, or tips from people in my position would be really useful.

Thank You All!
Click to expand...

Hey @Anthony Mooney, welcome to the community! I know I'm a little late into this conversation, but I'll try and give some pointers on how to teach new players the game of Pokémon (though I think @Otaku already beat me to it ;))!

The first thing that I would do when teaching (if it is a completely new player to the game) is to not overload them with intense strategy and explaining outlandish combos like how if you get Magnezone (PLS) in play after using Rare Candy on a Magnemite (BKT) then playing two supporters per turn combined with Zoroark GX's (SHL) Riotous Beating attack with Skyfield in play and a full bench you would crush most opponents (try saying that three times fast) ;). Teach the basic mechanics such as turn by turn processes like drawing a card at the beginning of your turn, six prize cards, etc. before you get into the hardcore gameplay. From my understanding though, you have already gotten past this part, so I'll move on.

As a few other people have mentioned, theme decks are usually the best way to go when begining. If you wait for the release of Sun & Moon: Ultra Prism (which is due on Feb. 2), you'd have better luck with either of the theme decks from that set (mainly the Garchomp related one) as most of the cards included in the deck are playable in other decks as your brother progresses (Here is a link to the lists for both theme decks). From this point on, usually the most consistent/simple decks are the best ones to start out with such as Volcanion EX, Buzzwole GX, Darkrai EX (the Expanded version is way better than the Standard variant), and anything else that you can find with these factors (notice all of these decks are using "big basics" as their attackers which is almost as consistent as you can get).

Tapu Bulu GX/Vikavolt isn't very consistent, but the strategy is very simple and easy to execute once the deck gets going. It wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in this deck as with the release of ULP, Tapu Bulu GX/Vikavolt will get a lot more consistent with new cards such as Cynthia to replace Sycamore (which means discarding resources isn't much of an issue anymore). If you need any lists for the decks mentioned above (or any other deck you can think of) just let me know and I'd be happy to help!

Also, if your looking for further information on what to do as Pokémon changes (with the rotation of the Standard format at the end of 2018 Worlds in August removing certain cards in Standard), I would heed @Otaku's advice as a lot of what he says is true and helpful on really anything you want to know about Pokémon.

Anyways, hope you and your brother enjoy Pokémon, let me know if you need anything else. Good luck!
 
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