Best Metagame in your opinon?

Dork Void

Dork Void

#OCCUPYALLTHINGS
Member
As the title says, what is everyone's favorite metagame? It can be a specific (X set->Y set) or just a general era (say, Holon or SP). If possible, include what you liked about that metagame so much. Anything you didn't like about that format?

Even if you started recently, I'd still be interested in what people think of the current format. What's good about it? What's wrong with it? What can be improved?

Not sure if this belongs here or the Chillax Zone, mods can move it I guess if need be. I just thought it would get more notice by people who could actually answer it here.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

In general, the Diamond & Pearl/Platinum era. I first started playing competitively when SPs were starting, and I did most of my growing as a player around then too. The HGSS block mixed well with it, but once it became HGSS-on, and now BW-on, I think it went downhill. I thought the format was pretty balanced in DP-on and MD-on, and games seemed to be more about skill than luck, especially compared to today's format. Even the rules were better, with the whole "no trainers on first turn" still in effect.

To be honest, today's format bores me. There aren't as many playable decks and there is a pretty big luck element and some cards like catcher that just make the game less fun for me.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

Diamond/Pearl-On up to HeartGold/SoulSilver til it was rotated out completely in Modified. I started playing the Pokemon TCG when DP Majestic Dawn was the latest expansion several years ago and alot of the stuff Meaty mentioned in this thread I wholeheartedly agree with. The current Modified format and the next format would be more interesting If there was a greater emphasis on Stage 1 and Stage 2 Pokemon instead of just Big Basics.

Apparently whoever is in charge of the TCG didn't get the message when they felt the need to print a Pokemon card that normally evolves into a Basic EX instead of a Stage 2 EX being Chandelure EX from EX Battle Boost. Same thing happened with Pokemon SP when the Platinum Series was Modified legal except it wasn't nearly as bad as the current situation were in now, there were more playable Stage 1/Stage 2 decks in MD-On than there are in
BW-On right now.

I hear people like Riskbreakers going on about the power creep of Stage 2's that need to be kept in check with Catcher when the real problem IMO is the Big Basics that have been dominating the current format for quite some time and how the max HP to KO them has gotten harder for Stage 1 and Stage 2 Pokemon to compete in when some of them can't even hit that magic number of 170+ damage times double weakness, I find that inexcusable.

I've also noticed that when I'm looking through most expansions of the Black and White series it's like only 30-40% of cards in each one are playable where the rest are unplayable. I know there were more playable cards in Diamond/Pearl, Platinum, and HeartGold/SoulSilver compared to the Black/White series. There are a slew of new rogue decks popping up in the current format but it just feels like our options are very limited.

The distribution of League Promos that are usually staples in alot of competitive decks took a nosedive in our current format compared to how it was before where you could get what you needed to compete. Nowadays If you wanted a Catcher promo you needed to get a certain amount of Championship Points to get them instead of being able to earn for it at your local Pokemon League, when I was playing the TCG in DP-On we managed to get stuff like Roseanne's Research and Pokemon Collector which were staples in their respective era's especially Claydol GE which used to be a staple draw engine in alot of competitive decks.

When I found out that P!P decided to ditch the League Promos they used to do in favor of the Unova Gym Badge Case I was really disappointed. What makes this even worse is that Tropical Beach never got reprinted as a League Promo or Tin Promo cause it was originally printed as a Worlds Invite in the first BW-On Format. This is bad because some decks in our current format need Tropical Beach to play consistently but sadly you need to be rich in order to afford them or be lucky enough to get a Worlds Invite to obtain them.

As for what can be improved from our current format I did label some of it out earlier in this post, grant better attacks and abilities for Stage 1 and Stage 2 evolutions instead of giving most of it towards Pokemon that don't evolve or are Legendary in the video games. Bring back League Promos that help players run consistent metagame or rogue decks don't just give us a Badge Case which isn't bad but still. Another thing would be to tone down the TCG's power creep to where it's about as balanced as it was in Diamond/Pearl, Platinum, and HeartGold/SoulSilver. Maybe get rid of x2 Weakness in favor of the +10, +20 Weakness that DPP had before sticking with x2 Weakness starting in HGSS up til now.

I would argue for a hard rotation to X/Y-On for our next Modified format but I know that's not going to happen even though it would drastically decrease the TCG's power creep from the Big Basics and upset alot of players who have invested alot of money in specific decks that have the best potential to be played in the next format. Another thing would be to return the 1st turn rules back to the way they were before Black/White Base Set, un-errata Rare Candy, allow players to keep their Supporter for turn in play before sending it to their discard pile instead of being forced to discard it immediately after use with fears of getting penalized by a judge for forgetting by playing another Supporter on the same turn.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

Hmm... Around Call of Legends was probably the time I enjoyed most. (I miss my Lucario deck, lol.) But I'm not a nostalgic person, so there isn't any time I "wish I could go back to" or anything of the sort, and I certainly don't dislike the current format.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

I've only been playing since Fall of 2011, and I wasn't good enough in the 2011-2012 season to judge how good a format it was, so I'm gonna go with 2012-2013. I hear all the time that the new formats suck and a lot of the old formats were really good. Since I didn't play in any of them, I can't say for certain why.

If I'd have to guess it's that the new formats rely too much on the first turn. Couldn't bench a Squirtle? You're on the losing end. Couldn't retreat that Deoxys? Losing end. Only drew into 1 Smeargle (in last format)? Losing end. This causes another problem in that there are too many cards that are terrible draws, if you draw them after turn 4, and vice versa. When trying to balance your deck list so that it has enough early game cards, and enough late game cards, you just have to rely on luck.

Another thing that I can see people disliking is that there are too many clutch cards. Catcher, Laser, Switch, Max Potion, (Superior) Energy Retrieval, 50% of the cards in Darkrai. These cards can just clog up your hand a lot of the time. It seemed like in the old formats that most cards were at least somewhat helpful every time you drew them.

The Supporters are also pretty jacked up, and not drawing one is even more jacked up.

But, the thing is, there were probably plenty of other minor flaws about those old formats that I just don't realize, because, well, I haven't been playing them for a full year.

I'd really love to play some of these old formats, or maybe watch some games of people playing them, just to see how good they really are.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

Machamp the Champion said:
I've only been playing since Fall of 2011, and I wasn't good enough in the 2011-2012 season to judge how good a format it was, so I'm gonna go with 2012-2013. I hear all the time that the new formats suck and a lot of the old formats were really good. Since I didn't play in any of them, I can't say for certain why.

If I'd have to guess it's that the new formats rely too much on the first turn. Couldn't bench a Squirtle? You're on the losing end. Couldn't retreat that Deoxys? Losing end. Only drew into 1 Smeargle (in last format)? Losing end. This causes another problem in that there are too many cards that are terrible draws, if you draw them after turn 4, and vice versa. When trying to balance your deck list so that it has enough early game cards, and enough late game cards, you just have to rely on luck.

Another thing that I can see people disliking is that there are too many clutch cards. Catcher, Laser, Switch, Max Potion, (Superior) Energy Retrieval, 50% of the cards in Darkrai. These cards can just clog up your hand a lot of the time. It seemed like in the old formats that most cards were at least somewhat helpful every time you drew them.

The Supporters are also pretty jacked up, and not drawing one is even more jacked up.

But, the thing is, there were probably plenty of other minor flaws about those old formats that I just don't realize, because, well, I haven't been playing them for a full year.

I'd really love to play some of these old formats, or maybe watch some games of people playing them, just to see how good they really are.
Click to expand...

Toxicate is worst. Can't draw hypnotoxic laser, and a level ball? Too bad lol.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

So to summarize, a good Pokemon format would:

-Minimize luck (includes reducing flippy attacks/ abilities as well as making cards that keep lists consistent and decreasing the importance of a bad starting hand)
-Have the "no trainers on the first turn of the first player" rule
-Contain a large variety of playable decks
-Have a big emphasis on Stage 1 and Stage 2s in addition to or instead of Basics
-Avoid power creep as much as possible

That's mainly what I got from the above posts. Anyone else who agrees/disagrees/has anything else to add?
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

My favorite format was HS-DEX. Unlike many of the players here, I felt that that format was good in spite of the lack of variety. Darkrai and Eelektrik decks dominated the game, but that's what I liked. These decks had very even matchups in the mirror and with each other. That combined with the release of cards like Smeargle and Ultra Ball made the format very skill-based and I felt like I played better and more consistently in that format than I did in any other. The format's lack of diversity also made it very easy to counter with decks like Mono Terrakion and Vileplume/Chandelure/Accelgor/Mew Prime, which kept metagaming important even though it wasn't as important as it is in a format like today's.

Having a small metagame like that dramatically reduces the luck element in the game. In this format, no matter what deck I choose, odds are relatively good that at some point I'll end up playing a deck that I basically can't beat with my deck. So to a certain extent, metagaming doesn't matter in this format. If I metagame well, I can pick a deck that has a small chance of running into an autoloss, but I can never completely remove it. So, the diversity in a format like this one actually increases the luck element of the game. This isn't to say diversity is bad; it's only bad when autolosses and highly unfavorable/favorable matchups get involved.

And of course Smeargle worked wonders in that format for adding skill to the game. Portrait itself is a fairly skill-based Power because you have to decide if it's too big of a risk to use it and you have to empty your own hand of Supporters you don't want your opponent to Portrait into. Additionally, you should be memorizing your opponent's hand every time you see it. And Smeargle provided players with a way to get out of dead hands without spending a turn or two to do so. This dramatically reduces the luck element in a format based around Supporter draw. Yes, Smeargle made the game faster, but a fast game is good as long as it doesn't inhibit skill.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

My favorite MG was the BW format. NOW, before you all attack, let me explain the pros and cons of it/

Pros: This is the only metagame I ever went in
Cards that are meant to be combo'd (IE, Blastoise/Keldeo, Hypnotoxic/Virbank, etc.)
New reverses
Some neato trainers (Catcher, personal favorite Ghetsis)
EXs
Full arts!
Golden border shinies

Cons: Metagame decks are everywhere! (Everyone plays blastoise/Keldeo or TDK!)
Lack of original creative decks (Only good one worth noting is Gothitelle/Accelgor)
OP EXs
No limit of EXs per deck
Rare candy (I feel it would be more balanced without it)
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

All these players talking about recent formats. Where are the true vets at?

Neo Genesis -> Skyridge was the greatest format. 2003 Format.
There wasn't a single deck that was truly greater than any other deck in that era.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

Celebi23 said:
My favorite format was HS-DEX. Unlike many of the players here, I felt that that format was good in spite of the lack of variety. Darkrai and Eelektrik decks dominated the game, but that's what I liked. These decks had very even matchups in the mirror and with each other. That combined with the release of cards like Smeargle and Ultra Ball made the format very skill-based and I felt like I played better and more consistently in that format than I did in any other. The format's lack of diversity also made it very easy to counter with decks like Mono Terrakion and Vileplume/Chandelure/Accelgor/Mew Prime, which kept metagaming important even though it wasn't as important as it is in a format like today's.

Having a small metagame like that dramatically reduces the luck element in the game. In this format, no matter what deck I choose, odds are relatively good that at some point I'll end up playing a deck that I basically can't beat with my deck. So to a certain extent, metagaming doesn't matter in this format. If I metagame well, I can pick a deck that has a small chance of running into an autoloss, but I can never completely remove it. So, the diversity in a format like this one actually increases the luck element of the game. This isn't to say diversity is bad; it's only bad when autolosses and highly unfavorable/favorable matchups get involved.

And of course Smeargle worked wonders in that format for adding skill to the game. Portrait itself is a fairly skill-based Power because you have to decide if it's too big of a risk to use it and you have to empty your own hand of Supporters you don't want your opponent to Portrait into. Additionally, you should be memorizing your opponent's hand every time you see it. And Smeargle provided players with a way to get out of dead hands without spending a turn or two to do so. This dramatically reduces the luck element in a format based around Supporter draw. Yes, Smeargle made the game faster, but a fast game is good as long as it doesn't inhibit skill.
Click to expand...

I actually did enjoy HGSS-NXD, if you consider that to be close enough. There wasn't Darkrai, instead CMT was running rampant, but my main fond memory is that I had a very unusual and fun "Electrode Prime toolbox" deck that actually did well at my first regionals in my first year in Masters. I went 5-3, getting donked out of top cut on round 8, but... that's beside the point. Back then, we only had one set of EXs, and I thought they were balanced too. Mewtwo wars actually brought a skill element into the game with the whole psychology and outplaying your opponent.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

HG/SS-DEX was the last format that I thoroughly enjoyed. Of course it did have some small flaws (I still believe that Dual Ball flips made and broke games just like Supporter droughts can do now...), but on the whole it was decent.

I really liked the formats when Delta Species came out (fitting that I came back into the game around this time). The ways that cards like FR/LG Pidgeot as well as the EXs from Emerald and the Team Rocket support along with the new (at the time) Holon Engine that every deck could use was awesome. Stadiums were so huge back then (even bigger than they are now), the first turns were balanced, the variety of the decks was astounding, and Basics, Stage 1s, and Stage 2s were all played. Towards the end of the delta era, around the time Power Keepers came out was I think when the game jumped the shark so to speak.

The last format that I enjoyed after that was the whole SP era. I really enjoyed how the decks played and there was a lot of variety as well. Not every good deck was SP as Gengar/Vileplume, Machamp, Gyarados, and even PLOX could still tangle. The way that the SP decks played encouraged a variety of skill particularly with cards like Power Spray and important Powers like Bright Look as well as the amount of techs that people could play that altered every game.

dmaster out.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

I honestly prefer HS-NXD to HS-DEX (I hated so much about HS-DEX), but even more I preferred HS-NV to HS-NXD.

But my favorite format is MD-CoL, because it had the best result I ever got in a tournament. Almost got top 32 as well with Regigigas that year. That was one great Regionals.
Claydol GE blinded me to how intricate a format could truly be.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

dmaster said:
HG/SS-DEX was the last format that I thoroughly enjoyed. Of course it did have some small flaws (I still believe that Dual Ball flips made and broke games just like Supporter droughts can do now...), but on the whole it was decent.

I really liked the formats when Delta Species came out (fitting that I came back into the game around this time). The ways that cards like FR/LG Pidgeot as well as the EXs from Emerald and the Team Rocket support along with the new (at the time) Holon Engine that every deck could use was awesome. Stadiums were so huge back then (even bigger than they are now), the first turns were balanced, the variety of the decks was astounding, and Basics, Stage 1s, and Stage 2s were all played. Towards the end of the delta era, around the time Power Keepers came out was I think when the game jumped the shark so to speak.

The last format that I enjoyed after that was the whole SP era. I really enjoyed how the decks played and there was a lot of variety as well. Not every good deck was SP as Gengar/Vileplume, Machamp, Gyarados, and even PLOX could still tangle. The way that the SP decks played encouraged a variety of skill particularly with cards like Power Spray and important Powers like Bright Look as well as the amount of techs that people could play that altered every game.

dmaster out.
Click to expand...

I didn't start playing competitively until the mid-DPPt era, but I do remember collecting and casually playing in the Delta Species era and I loved those cards and that mechanic. They seemed so cool to me, and now I hear that it was an amazing metagame. I wish I was playing competitively back then.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

MD-COL
Somewhat like DNA, I T4'd a Regional. This format had Gyarados and I loved it.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

SP metagame was by far my favorite. A lot of people complained about Luxray GL LVX, but now that you look at it, that format was so well-rounded that it gave a level playing feild to even rouge decks. I miss the good ol' days :/.

Salamencetrainer34 said:
My favorite MG was the BW format. NOW, before you all attack, let me explain the pros and cons of it/

Pros: This is the only metagame I ever went in
Cards that are meant to be combo'd (IE, Blastoise/Keldeo, Hypnotoxic/Virbank, etc.)
New reverses
Some neato trainers (Catcher, personal favorite Ghetsis)
EXs
Full arts!
Golden border shinies

Cons: Metagame decks are everywhere! (Everyone plays blastoise/Keldeo or TDK!)
Lack of original creative decks (Only good one worth noting is Gothitelle/Accelgor)
OP EXs
No limit of EXs per deck
Rare candy (I feel it would be more balanced without it)
Click to expand...

Literally everything you said was so contradicting I couldn't read it without being lost in confusion.
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

The Holon Phantoms on format was nice. Despite all the G&G mirrors, each G&G had their own twist that made them unique and had to think to win. Unlike this stupid, skill-less, sackful metagame we have right now :/
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

Riskbreakers said:
The Holon Phantoms on format was nice. Despite all the G&G mirrors, each G&G had their own twist that made them unique and had to think to win. Unlike this stupid, skill-less, sackful metagame we have right now :/
Click to expand...

Plus, just how the deck functioned was pretty interesting with an awesome attack mechanic.

Dat Claydol...
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

You also get punished when you play too much Claydol. Say hi to Dusknoir DP throwing all your attackers away leaving your bench with two Claydols. Draw all you want, you're setting nothing up the moment you place a 4th bench Pokemon
 
RE: Favorite Metagame

I loved HS-BW sosososososo much.

Reshiphlosion was my bud :)

I didn't even do anything major with it I got a T4 at a BR twice though.

Ninetales+Typhlosion+Reshiram+RDL=funfunfun
 
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