What decks do you think will be the best after the rotation?
Discussion Best Post-Rotation Decks
- Thread starter Ampharos142
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buzzwole will lose lot of its support, such as elixir, strong energy, regirock, thus it will struggle for the early pressure with jet punch and for ohko on stage 1s, still it can abuse diancie* and beast ring, it will surely see play, but opens for decks based on 2hko and healing.
Necrozma/malamar will be big and ohko everything, thus is the one to beat.
zoroark variants will still be played, the only relevant thing they'll lose is evosoda and puzzle.
rayquaza will be big pre rotation with elixirs, but after rotation will need vikavolt to work consistently, still I think it will be a big one.
also vika bulu will be good, only loses heavy ball and skyla (replace with volkner), and with aether stadium its like a ffb on but you can add a CB and ohko the whole meta.
i don't expect lightning decks to become big, even with all the new supports, just beacause buzzwole will remain relevant in the meta.
2 wildcard decks could be magcargo (both gx and non gx) paired with turtonator, which could spam bright flame each turn, and metal beast box, naganadel deletes buzzwole and necrozma for one energy, and u can resist by playing it with stakataka (also good backup attacker) and abusing max potions.
Necrozma/malamar will be big and ohko everything, thus is the one to beat.
zoroark variants will still be played, the only relevant thing they'll lose is evosoda and puzzle.
rayquaza will be big pre rotation with elixirs, but after rotation will need vikavolt to work consistently, still I think it will be a big one.
also vika bulu will be good, only loses heavy ball and skyla (replace with volkner), and with aether stadium its like a ffb on but you can add a CB and ohko the whole meta.
i don't expect lightning decks to become big, even with all the new supports, just beacause buzzwole will remain relevant in the meta.
2 wildcard decks could be magcargo (both gx and non gx) paired with turtonator, which could spam bright flame each turn, and metal beast box, naganadel deletes buzzwole and necrozma for one energy, and u can resist by playing it with stakataka (also good backup attacker) and abusing max potions.
altaria's output is not that great, and one can always guzma around it, ray is auto loss if gardy manages to set up, u necrozma won't see play, regular necrozma is simply overall better and more consistent. more over playing gardy with zoroark sounds too cluncky to me (and I know tord did it and won, but tord is tord)
Greninja GX might be good. Because first garbodor isn't around. It also has a good match-up against Malamar and buzzwole(at least for me)
Vika Bulu maybe, Rayquaza, potentially some lightning stuff when the support comes out, and Malamar variants
TIER 1 (no particular order):
- Ultra Necrozma / Malamar // Malamar / BUS Necrozma
- Zoroark (not sure what variant will be the best, so this is just a blanket estimate)
- VikaBulu
- Stakataka / Naganadel "Beast Box"
TIER 2:
- Greninja
- Rayquaza
- Buzzwole
NOT SURE:
- Ho-oh / Kiawe
- Ultra Necrozma / Malamar // Malamar / BUS Necrozma
- Zoroark (not sure what variant will be the best, so this is just a blanket estimate)
- VikaBulu
- Stakataka / Naganadel "Beast Box"
TIER 2:
- Greninja
- Rayquaza
- Buzzwole
NOT SURE:
- Ho-oh / Kiawe
Post rotation I think a lot of basic GX decks are positioned well. Reshiram GX should be the best fire deck, as it will be relatively easy to put that early pressure on with it and its GX attack while utilizing flint properly is an improved tutonator as it can get a knockout while accelerating from the discard.
Verizon GX has a lot of potential and may be the deck I'm most compelled to play. The card is just very good and grass has a lot of resources which make having a basic grass beater very strong post rotation. Killing Lapras/Zygarde/Lycancroc's play in the process.
Zeroroa seems to be the pokemon that will benefit the most from all the broken lightning support which seemingly is dropping daily. Despite Buzzwole still being there, I think Zeroroa has the potential to be faster. (whether it's better with rayquaza or dragonite, or by itself I'm not quite certain of yet but people will find ways to play the lightning legendary).
Additionally, I feel like Scizor GX is a deck that is interesting to me post rotation and I could see it working as a slower/stalling esk. type deck similar to Greninja, where you restrict when your opponent takes their first two prizes, to when you are ready to play beast rings accelerating to duskmane gx, or the Celesteela basic that hits for 160. (although I'm less certain of these decks post rotation, Greninja/Scizor/ Stakataka/ and wailord wishiwashi hybrid I think will have viability in the meta.
Verizon GX has a lot of potential and may be the deck I'm most compelled to play. The card is just very good and grass has a lot of resources which make having a basic grass beater very strong post rotation. Killing Lapras/Zygarde/Lycancroc's play in the process.
Zeroroa seems to be the pokemon that will benefit the most from all the broken lightning support which seemingly is dropping daily. Despite Buzzwole still being there, I think Zeroroa has the potential to be faster. (whether it's better with rayquaza or dragonite, or by itself I'm not quite certain of yet but people will find ways to play the lightning legendary).
Additionally, I feel like Scizor GX is a deck that is interesting to me post rotation and I could see it working as a slower/stalling esk. type deck similar to Greninja, where you restrict when your opponent takes their first two prizes, to when you are ready to play beast rings accelerating to duskmane gx, or the Celesteela basic that hits for 160. (although I'm less certain of these decks post rotation, Greninja/Scizor/ Stakataka/ and wailord wishiwashi hybrid I think will have viability in the meta.
I agree on virizion gx, just not sure if it is better with sceptile (ub shield and back up attacker) or with promo lurantis (back up attacker and damage modifier) in this case you can add 1 lurantis for the gx attack
Going to post a list on deck garage
Going to post a list on deck garage
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My initial thoughts were to try pairing Virizion with Venusaur and play a slower game where one could acerola virizion's and worse case, use a second energy if you ever need to breeze away Lele's or venusaur to deny prizes further, but I could definitely see it being playable with sceptile or laurantis as well.
@OppositeAttract What do you think about Gardevoir?
I think Gardevoir should be positioned better than it's right now, but I'm not sure by how much considering it isn't a deck I've thought much about or played around with. From an outside perspective fairies have support unlike other typings with stuff like Diantha which after puzzles rotate will be great. Although, without octillery/brigette the deck will center around zoroark and I'm not sure where it will rank in relation to other zoroark decks.
I like Zoroark Ninja, Malamar, and Vikavolt Box the best right now.
I think Zygarde Lycanroc replaces Buzz Roc, but I only think its tier 2 because it doesnt really hit numbers on dawn wings and Vikavolt decks can tech grass attackers.
I think Reshirams a solid tier 2 deck as well.
I think Lycanroc, Pod, and Gardevoir take a backseat to Greninja GX as zoroark partners because they aren't aggressive enough to take on fast ohko archetypes like vikavolt, malamar, and reshiram now that N and parallel rotated. Plus combo catcher slightly marginalizes lycanroc's value.
but maybe all that changes when the reveal the remaining half of our november set.
I think Zygarde Lycanroc replaces Buzz Roc, but I only think its tier 2 because it doesnt really hit numbers on dawn wings and Vikavolt decks can tech grass attackers.
I think Reshirams a solid tier 2 deck as well.
I think Lycanroc, Pod, and Gardevoir take a backseat to Greninja GX as zoroark partners because they aren't aggressive enough to take on fast ohko archetypes like vikavolt, malamar, and reshiram now that N and parallel rotated. Plus combo catcher slightly marginalizes lycanroc's value.
but maybe all that changes when the reveal the remaining half of our november set.
Malamar/anything is obviously going to be the very best for a while.
ZoroRoc will probably not be that great anymore, as Lycanroc loses Strong Energy and anti-fighting techs will be very limited for the deck. Plus with that Puzzle of Time Catcher thing Zoroark can just use that instead of Lycanroc for gusting.
If ZygardeRoc becomes the new BuzzRoc then that's one more reason to play ZoroPod instead. It also has an edge over ZoroNinja which is also at a huge disadvantage against VikaBulu, which will be pretty good again I'd say. There's also Zoroark/Magcargo, but honestly I can't really say how good that pairing will be. ZoroGarde would probably be my least preferred Zoroark variant, as Garde loses Gallade and Brigette, and both of of these were really important for this deck. I'd personally go with Sylveon/Garde instead, but only if Ray becomes good with Shuckle and Zeraora and if Ultra Necrozma becomes better than the regular one. I'd still have to think about including a good non-GX attacker to replace Gallade - maybe something in the upcoming Fairy Rise set?
Imo Magnezone/Dusk Mane could also become actually good - there are a lot of nice metal techs in the next few sets and there will be no Garbotoxin.
I'm not 100% sold on Reshiram - sure, that GX attack can put on a lot of pressure _if_ you can pull off the T1 Kiawe, which is always a bit of a gamble, but it would have to be paired with Dawn Wings (and lots of Switches) and Ho-oh because Reshiram's other attacks are bad. The deck also lacks a decent non-GX tech and since you're playing Reshiram you have to use that GX attack on T2 which means no Nitro Tank anymore, so the deck can easily have a meltdown after Reshiram/Ho-oh get knocked out, as there will be no way to accelerate energy after that.
I have personally given up on Beast Box - I don't think Stakataka is that great for the deck and Naganadel will still be a bad attacker and Dawn Wings isn't going anywhere either. But maybe I'll be surprised and the archetype will become good. At this moment I just can't really believe it anymore.
ZoroRoc will probably not be that great anymore, as Lycanroc loses Strong Energy and anti-fighting techs will be very limited for the deck. Plus with that Puzzle of Time Catcher thing Zoroark can just use that instead of Lycanroc for gusting.
If ZygardeRoc becomes the new BuzzRoc then that's one more reason to play ZoroPod instead. It also has an edge over ZoroNinja which is also at a huge disadvantage against VikaBulu, which will be pretty good again I'd say. There's also Zoroark/Magcargo, but honestly I can't really say how good that pairing will be. ZoroGarde would probably be my least preferred Zoroark variant, as Garde loses Gallade and Brigette, and both of of these were really important for this deck. I'd personally go with Sylveon/Garde instead, but only if Ray becomes good with Shuckle and Zeraora and if Ultra Necrozma becomes better than the regular one. I'd still have to think about including a good non-GX attacker to replace Gallade - maybe something in the upcoming Fairy Rise set?
Imo Magnezone/Dusk Mane could also become actually good - there are a lot of nice metal techs in the next few sets and there will be no Garbotoxin.
I'm not 100% sold on Reshiram - sure, that GX attack can put on a lot of pressure _if_ you can pull off the T1 Kiawe, which is always a bit of a gamble, but it would have to be paired with Dawn Wings (and lots of Switches) and Ho-oh because Reshiram's other attacks are bad. The deck also lacks a decent non-GX tech and since you're playing Reshiram you have to use that GX attack on T2 which means no Nitro Tank anymore, so the deck can easily have a meltdown after Reshiram/Ho-oh get knocked out, as there will be no way to accelerate energy after that.
I have personally given up on Beast Box - I don't think Stakataka is that great for the deck and Naganadel will still be a bad attacker and Dawn Wings isn't going anywhere either. But maybe I'll be surprised and the archetype will become good. At this moment I just can't really believe it anymore.
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Wouldn't Ditto Prism Star make Lycanroc easier to utilize?
Or is it that you'd be running 4 Combo Catcher and call it good?
I don't think zoro ninja's at a huge disadvantage vs bulu. Feels like you could feasibly race bulu, since you can both ohko each turn if you set up.
same goes for zoro pod. like grass isn't really an issue for greninja gx since you can just leave them on the bench or shuffle into your deck. Its moreso that shurikens apply so much pressure in a format without parallel to slow them down.
there's a gardevoir in the fairy rise promo art so we might get a new gardevoir that set. Probably a psychic one I'd imagine.
not a fan of magnezone. never have been. Once again, I don't think it really races Zoro Ninja effectively. And hitting a stage 2 plus 4 energy is definitely a lot harder than hitting 1 kiawe, then a flint or lady turn 2.
same goes for zoro pod. like grass isn't really an issue for greninja gx since you can just leave them on the bench or shuffle into your deck. Its moreso that shurikens apply so much pressure in a format without parallel to slow them down.
there's a gardevoir in the fairy rise promo art so we might get a new gardevoir that set. Probably a psychic one I'd imagine.
not a fan of magnezone. never have been. Once again, I don't think it really races Zoro Ninja effectively. And hitting a stage 2 plus 4 energy is definitely a lot harder than hitting 1 kiawe, then a flint or lady turn 2.
Dunno, maybe 1 lycanroc is worth it with ditto. Would need to test. 4 Custom catchers sound autoinclude though.
the issue with ditto is it will usually die to ninja shurikens. And if Zoro Ninja ends up being top tier, that would discourage me from building an overreliance on it.
I disagree on Reshiram's second attack being bad. Having played around with Entei/ Infernape a decent bit, I've seen that burn is quite effective. Ideally, the attack would do a base damage of 120 so you could max out at 210 instead of 200, but it isn't terrible and can be done every turn without dawnwings, unlike Hoho. Honestly, I'm not even convinced hoho is good with Reshiram, outside of its alternative weakness I feel Reshiram has better synergy with salazzle or even turtonator to get the post gx cleanup.