Bigfoot

Meaty said:
Actually, the answer to that isn't hard to find. Believe me, there are tracks, there are scratched tree trunks and snapped branches, as well as other "marks." These do not lead to a bigfoot's "nest" simply because the animal isn't one that lives in a stationary area, they migrate and roam, following herds of deer and elk and going to just about any other way that will lead them to more food. Big omnivorous apes like that can't afford to remain in one small area for a very long time, they need to move in order to keep finding food. I should also mention that they are believed to be primarily nocturnal, so it's not easy to find one roaming around in visible conditions.

How do you know that they move around? And how do you know they're omnivorous? Also, how do you know they're in a "small area"? They could have a very large territory and just have a low population density. Every animal needs shelter to survive. The three elements of life are food, water, and shelter. Even if it's a temporary settlement, it has to have a "base camp" of sorts. And it would have to be mighty large to house a giant ape. Why haven't we found feces? If they go all over the place, samples would show that there is unidentified DNA. If you say they only go in a single area, then they cannot be migratory. There are simply too many holes in the theory of bigfoots for me to even believe for an instant they're real.
 
Rikko145 said:
How do you know that they move around? Well as you said before, if they didn't move around then they would have apparently been found by now. Remember, I'm saying everything assuming that they exist, and the theory of bigfoots moving in order to find food is perfectly logical. And how do you know they're omnivorous? Well gee, just about every other primate known to man is omnivorous, and even if they are not omnivorous, they are definitely carnivores, which makes my point just as valid. Also, how do you know they're in a "small area"? They could have a very large territory and just have a low population density. I never said that sasquatches live in a small area, I was pointing as to how it wouldn't be logical for them to do so. Every animal needs shelter to survive. The three elements of life are food, water, and shelter. Even if it's a temporary settlement, it has to have a "base camp" of sorts. And it would have to be mighty large to house a giant ape. There have been a few findings of large, unexplained shelters before, made up of branches and leaves. Why haven't we found feces? If they go all over the place, samples would show that there is unidentified DNA. You should honestly read the website that was linked in that earlier post. Scat samples have been found, as well as hair, and DNA testing has shown that these scat and hair samples match each other, yet do not match any known species. This suggests that a legitimate consistent species is leaving these samples behind, and it is confirmed that they are not coming from a known animal. It is also notable that the mass of the scat found suggests that it was produced by a very large animal. If you say they only go in a single area, then they cannot be migratory. There are simply too many holes in the theory of bigfoots for me to even believe for an instant they're real. Where did I say that bigfoots go in a single area? They are in fact prominent throughout most parts of North America, just about anywhere on the continent where there are thick forests. The problem with these "holes" is that there are not nearly as many as you think.
 
I just read through the whole thread, and man, about half of you are making me so mad. You can't say Bigfoot is a hoax. You just can't say that. You don't know that. Just as you don't know he's real. We don't know anything, really. We just think.

Also, just because you can't see something, doesn't mean its not there. Yesterday I lost my pants, and I couldn't see them. But guess what I'm now wearing? Does that mean they were non-existent or a hoax? I THINK NOT. Until somebody finds real proof that he is real, we don't know if he is or not. We can believe, as I believe he is real. I don't see why you non-believers want to be so damn skeptical about all this.
 
Eveon, you are absolutely, monumentally illogical. You bring up the concept of a null hypothesis, but you completely fail to understand its purpose. A null hypothesis is a general or default position when doing testing. It is always the exact opposite of what we are testing. For example, if we were to test that I have 10 fingers, the null hypothesis would be that I do not have 10 fingers. If we are testing to see if I can type properly, the null hypothesis is that I cannot type properly. If we are testing to see if something exists (bigfoot), the null hypothesis is that it does not exist. We must start assuming the null hypothesis to be true and move to prove the hypothesis (what we are testing) is true. In my first claim (dealing with fingers), the null hypothesis is very unlikely, but we must start with that and move towards proving the actual hypothesis (that I have 10 fingers).

Next, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When hypothesis testing in statistics, we use an alpha value for our degree of certainty that we want. Typically, we want to be at least 95% sure of something before we can accept it. This alpha value changes depending on what the claim is. For example, if we are 95% sure that airplanes are safe, that isn't very good -- 1/20 airplanes are theoretically unsafe based on our test. Even if we are 94% sure of something, if our testing value is 95%, we must reject the hypothesis until we can acquire more proof. Big apes existing is a fair claim and does not require a lot of evidence, but having a species of giant apes that have not been caught that basically live all over the US (or the world depending on who you are asking) would require a lot of evidence. Catching one of them and doing DNA testing would suffice... sadly, we don't have that. The margin of evidence that we have is so minute that you would be a moron to believe that such a thing exists without having to put serious "ifs" on the belief. As a result, we must all believe the null hypothesis, big foot does not exist, until we acquire more proof. That being said, if people are truly interested, they would search for such a creature and find proof of its existence. Until sufficient proof is found, though, we cannot assume that bigfoot exists.


Your post has some serious logic flaws. "Until somebody finds proof that he is real, we don't know if he is or not. We can believe". That can apply to ANYTHING! There are these pink fairies that are too small for the human eye to see, but they talk to you while you are asleep and they are what give you dreams at night. There is no proof that these exists, so we really don't know! They don't defy our present understanding of sleep because they evolved that way to be able to give people dreams. They cannot be observed because they fly away from magnifiers so that they can avoid being seen. If you want proof of them, talk to them in your dreams. I don't see why you non-believers want to be so damn skeptical about all this. You have no proof against these fairies, so you should believe in them anyways. If no proof is found, I guess we'll never know, but you should believe in them anyways so that you can have good dreams.
 
Zero said:
Eveon, you are absolutely, monumentally illogical. You bring up the concept of a null hypothesis, but you completely fail to understand its purpose. A null hypothesis is a general or default position when doing testing. It is always the exact opposite of what we are testing. For example, if we were to test that I have 10 fingers, the null hypothesis would be that I do not have 10 fingers. If we are testing to see if I can type properly, the null hypothesis is that I cannot type properly. If we are testing to see if something exists (bigfoot), the null hypothesis is that it does not exist. We must start assuming the null hypothesis to be true and move to prove the hypothesis (what we are testing) is true. In my first claim (dealing with fingers), the null hypothesis is very unlikely, but we must start with that and move towards proving the actual hypothesis (that I have 10 fingers).

Next, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When hypothesis testing in statistics, we use an alpha value for our degree of certainty that we want. Typically, we want to be at least 95% sure of something before we can accept it. This alpha value changes depending on what the claim is. For example, if we are 95% sure that airplanes are safe, that isn't very good -- 1/20 airplanes are theoretically unsafe based on our test. Even if we are 94% sure of something, if our testing value is 95%, we must reject the hypothesis until we can acquire more proof. Big apes existing is a fair claim and does not require a lot of evidence, but having a species of giant apes that have not been caught that basically live all over the US (or the world depending on who you are asking) would require a lot of evidence. Catching one of them and doing DNA testing would suffice... sadly, we don't have that. The margin of evidence that we have is so minute that you would be a moron to believe that such a thing exists without having to put serious "ifs" on the belief. As a result, we must all believe the null hypothesis, big foot does not exist, until we acquire more proof. That being said, if people are truly interested, they would search for such a creature and find proof of its existence. Until sufficient proof is found, though, we cannot assume that bigfoot exists.


Your post has some serious logic flaws. "Until somebody finds proof that he is real, we don't know if he is or not. We can believe". That can apply to ANYTHING! There are these pink fairies that are too small for the human eye to see, but they talk to you while you are asleep and they are what give you dreams at night. There is no proof that these exists, so we really don't know! They don't defy our present understanding of sleep because they evolved that way to be able to give people dreams. They cannot be observed because they fly away from magnifiers so that they can avoid being seen. If you want proof of them, talk to them in your dreams. I don't see why you non-believers want to be so damn skeptical about all this. You have no proof against these fairies, so you should believe in them anyways. If no proof is found, I guess we'll never know, but you should believe in them anyways so that you can have good dreams.

Wow. Very nice post. That's on a similar track of what I was going to say, but I cannot top that. I was actually going to say Santa Claus, but I will just say I agree with you fully on this one. (Gonna have to chop off my fingers for typing that I agree with Zero - And then I could prove one of your null hypotheses to be true!)
 
Zero said:
Catching one of them and doing DNA testing would suffice... sadly, we don't have that. The margin of evidence that we have is so minute that you would be a moron to believe that such a thing exists without having to put serious "ifs" on the belief. As a result, we must all believe the null hypothesis, big foot does not exist, until we acquire more proof. That being said, if people are truly interested, they would search for such a creature and find proof of its existence. Until sufficient proof is found, though, we cannot assume that bigfoot exists.

Now this is something that I can agree with, I just seem to think that we have found more credible evidence than you think. That aside, nice post, it kind of counters arguments from people who don't back anything up.... I think the problem with "believers" in these kinds of topics is that if they(or we, I guess) get frustrated with skeptics, we start sounding even more idiotic.

As I've said before, it's all a matter of how we interpret facts, and to some people it seems blatantly obvious that bigfoots exist while to others the idea seems preposterous even when they are presented with the evidence of the day.
 
I read this thread because I was bored and I have to say that I agree with everything Zero has said.
 
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