Standard Black Forest (Shiftry / Virizion / Shaymin)

[Dark Espeon]

BLACK FOREST

Pokémon (16):

• 1 Shiftry XY02 (beatdown)
• 3 Shiftry XY11 (beatdown)
• 4 Nuzleaf XY11 (evolve)
• 4 Seedot XY11 (evolve)
• 2 Shaymin Ex (draw)
• 2 Virizion (retrieval)

Trainer (32):

• 3 Professor Sycamore (draw)
• 1 Lysandre (control)
• 1 Bridgette (search)
  
• 3 Judge (draw)
• 2 N (draw)
• 3 Battle Compressor (control)
• 3 Trainer's Mail (search)
• 3 Revitalizer (retrieval)
• 1 Super Rod (retrieval)
  
• 4 Vs Seeker (retrieval)
• 4 Ultra Ball (search)
• 4 Forest of Giant Plants (evolution)

Energy (12):

• 4 Double Colorless Energy
• 8 Grass Energy

STRATEGY:

The main idea is to Battle Compressor the Shiftry evolution line into the discard and retieve it with Revitalizer. If the deck starts with Seedot and Forest of Giant Plants this can result into a turn one Shiftry. Use Judge and N to match hand sizes and hit for 120 damage with Shiftry XY11. Since it is a Darkness and Grass Pokémon it can hit several decks for weakness. Shiftry XY02 is used to draw and acts as an alternate attacker to take down defenders that cannot be hit for weakness.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

I think the challenge of this deck (evolutions+hand size manipulation+inconsistency) outweighs the reward (120 Damage). It's just too small to work in my opinion. Honestly, you are better off using Glaile EX/Yanmega's for hand based damage (and I strongly dislike Glaile, as anybody who's seen the Yanmega's partner thread would know).
If you really want some suggestions on the deck, I'd suggest you find some method of chaining Shaymins, as they are OHKOd by Extrasensory.

 

[Dark Espeon]

Hi NinjaPenguin,

Thanks for the review. I have to disagree here. The deck is much more consistent than it looks due to Battle Compressor and Revitalizer. Did not miss a turn one shiftry thus far in several matches. Nevertheless the deck is the definition of a meta deck. It is awesome in matches versus NM, Seismitoad variants, Fighting decks, Greninja BREAK and Trevenant BREAK. It has issues versus Fairies and Darkness decks in addition to mega evolution decks. Shiftry from Flashfire helps a little but does not suffice some all attackers can be ohked with ease. I believe that Shiftry is much better than Yanmega BREAK as a meta decks that hits selected decks for weakness due to more stable attacks, less reliance on abilities and a better typing. See it as a meta deck to combat the decks mentioned above. After the rotation the deck will not be viable since it relies on the fast set up provided by Battle Compressor and Revitalizer. One more Trainer's mail would have been nice but it was rather hard to fit it in without sacrificing the overall performance of the deck.

 

[Gabking5458]

I don't see Virizion being that helpful. Maybe you could take out a Grass Energy and add a 1-1-1 Vileplume tech. I think it could be pretty good as MegaRay needs its items. This could maybe add a stall type option for the deck too. Hope this helps!

 

[Dark Espeon]

Hi Gabking5458,

Thanks for the review. Virizion was the sole Grass Basic that came to mind. It is not vital for the deck. Is there another Grass Basic Pokémon that could take its slot and attack for little resources? Not sold on Vileplume in this deck since it need the item cards to chain Shiftry. The benefit of the deck is that it hits for two decent weaknesses. This means that the deck is in fact a meta choice if decks weak to Grass and Darkness are common. If the dominant decks are not weak to Shiftry he will have troubles even if the deck is modified to fit in Bursting Balloon.

 

[gumball51321]

I actually play the deck as well. Kinda odd since this is the second thread of yours I commented on. So here's the scoop: Honestly, Virizion is a complete waste of space. You already play Revitalizer, and just one of those will get you far. But all it is is another fire weak, easy OHKO Pokemon that can't prize trade well. I thought I'd also point out that even if the deck could play Bursting Balloon, it would get shut down by Shiftry's first attack. Yanmega is a really good choice to take Virizion's place. I personally play a 2-2-1 line of the Break, because it just has so much synergy with Shiftry. I was actually hoping I wasn't the only one playing Shiftry, I think that it would be a secret play at worlds since it almost destroys the entire worlds meta. But I think that if people are good enough to get to worlds, they can beat it out. Which is another problem with the deck(the idea in general), it relies too much on weakness, which is why I play the Yanmega line, and since I'm playtesting PRC-on, I also can't use the FLF Shiftry to kill Mega Rayquaza, so I was toying with the idea of either 1/2 Jolteon-EX, or 1-1 Raichu/ Zoroark. Another thing, you don't need that much energy or recovery. With how many Pokemon you play, that much recovery is more than just overkill. Just my thoughts for now, I'll get back on the topic later. And I'll also post my list for Dark Toolbox on your other thread(I've been putting it off).

 

[Dark Espeon]

Hi gumball51321,

Thanks for the review. Shiftry is a nice meta deck. Virizion is indeed not used much besides serving as an additional bench slot of Shiftry XY02. Would be interested on how the deck does post rotation. Did not assume that it would be viable without Battle Compressor to ensure a turn one Shiftry XY11. Any idea on Grass or Colorless Basic Pokémon that could take the slot of Virizion as a backup attacker? Not entire sold on several evolution lines in the same deck since that tends to slow the deck down.

Cannot wait for your take on Yveltal BREAK. Still toying around with a post rotation variant that differs from a Zoroark builds and feels as versatile as the combo with Malamar in the original list.

 

[gumball51321]

Hi gumball51321,

Thanks for the review. Shiftry is a nice meta deck. Virizion is indeed not used much besides serving as an additional bench slot of Shiftry XY02. Would be interested on how the deck does post rotation. Did not assume that it would be viable without Battle Compressor to ensure a turn one Shiftry XY11. Any idea on Grass or Colorless Basic Pokémon that could take the slot of Virizion as a backup attacker? Not entire sold on several evolution lines in the same deck since that tends to slow the deck down.

Cannot wait for your take on Yveltal BREAK. Still toying around with a post rotation variant that differs from a Zoroark builds and feels as versatile as the combo with Malamar in the original list.

Amazingly, the deck does really well without Battle compressor. Actually, in response to the not being sold on multiple evolution lines thing:, I actually based my skeleton off of Vespiquen/ Vileplume, which is the reason my list is consistent. Yes they did use Battle compressor, but this deck is able to use items like VS Seeker, so it still is different. Yanmega is a really good addition since it attacks for free(Since you, Judge and N), it gives you a reason to drop four grass energy(or DCE) since the deck in general doesn't need that much. Like I said, Jolteon-EX could work(But it's expensive)against Mega Ray and some other things, but a partner I should've mentioned was Glaceon-EX. It's the whole package: cheap, works against Mega Ray and covers weakness. Yanmega doesn't cover weakness, but it does change it, and the Break gets past said Glaceon, so you really can't go wrong with it. Glaceon would require you to either:1, add water energy and coexist with Grass. Or 2, drop Grass altogether, and sacrifice the first attack, which is really good. If you do play Jolteon or Glaceon, this is the energy lineup I'd use:

• 3 DCE
• 4 Grass
• 3 Water

And for something that supposed to be an energy-cheap deck, 10 is a lot. But Extrasensory isn't as important as your list says it is. 120 for a DCE seems like a lot, but emphasis on seems. The first attack is the reason you beat Night March, Trevenant, Greninja, and more or less Seismitoad, so don't see it go to waste. Shiftry is the new tree of the format, and I would like to see the undertree(play on underdog) get some recognition. And as I'm posting this, I'm working on posting my Dark list. Good luck and have fun!

 

[Dark Espeon]

Amazingly, the deck does really well without Battle compressor. Actually, in response to the not being sold on multiple evolution lines thing:, I actually based my skeleton off of Vespiquen/ Vileplume, which is the reason my list is consistent. Yes they did use Battle compressor, but this deck is able to use items like VS Seeker, so it still is different. Yanmega is a really good addition since it attacks for free(Since you, Judge and N), it gives you a reason to drop four grass energy(or DCE) since the deck in general doesn't need that much. Like I said, Jolteon-EX could work(But it's expensive)against Mega Ray and some other things, but a partner I should've mentioned was Glaceon-EX. It's the whole package: cheap, works against Mega Ray and covers weakness. Yanmega doesn't cover weakness, but it does change it, and the Break gets past said Glaceon, so you really can't go wrong with it. Glaceon would require you to either:1, add water energy and coexist with Grass. Or 2, drop Grass altogether, and sacrifice the first attack, which is really good. If you do play Jolteon or Glaceon, this is the energy lineup I'd use:

• 3 DCE
• 4 Grass
• 3 Water

And for something that supposed to be an energy-cheap deck, 10 is a lot. But Extrasensory isn't as important as your list says it is. 120 for a DCE seems like a lot, but emphasis on seems. The first attack is the reason you beat Night March, Trevenant, Greninja, and more or less Seismitoad, so don't see it go to waste. Shiftry is the new tree of the format, and I would like to see the undertree(play on underdog) get some recognition. And as I'm posting this, I'm working on posting my Dark list. Good luck and have fun!

Have to agree here. Shiftry is indeed underrated. A reason for this could be that it is a meta deck that floats real well in a certain format but tend to sink down in others. Shiftry has two great attacks but you sure want to hit for weakness with it. I considered Lugia Ex as a backup attacker instead of Virizion but have not tested it out thus far. The main reason is that it has a colorless attack cost.

Still not sold on Yanmega. The card needs a terrible amount of set up since you need to constantly control your hand size and hope that the opponent has a tool attached to hit for no more than Shiftry himself. To tell the truth i beleive that this card is overrated.

 

[gumball51321]

Have to agree here. Shiftry is indeed underrated. A reason for this could be that it is a meta deck that floats real well in a certain format but tend to sink down in others. Shiftry has two great attacks but you sure want to hit for weakness with it. I considered Lugia Ex as a backup attacker instead of Virizion but have not tested it out thus far. The main reason is that it has a colorless attack cost.

Still not sold on Yanmega. The card needs a terrible amount of set up since you need to constantly control your hand size and hope that the opponent has a tool attached to hit for no more than Shiftry himself. To tell the truth i beleive that this card is overrated.

Don't forget about the Break. Plus, isn't constant hand control exactly what Shiftry is? On top of that, free retreat is really good. And you're right, it is overrated, but it is for a reason: it's good. you typically use 1 per game, but that's why I play 2-2-1 , so I have the consistency to do that. Also, if you think Lugia would work, go for it, I'd love to hear how your testing goes, since I just traded my FA to get Mega Rayquaza stuff. Also, I posted my dark list on someone else's thread that you were a part of, since I tried getting to it through your profile posts, so just check it out there, since I'm too lazy to post it again(I posted it off of memory). My bad.

 

[Dark Espeon]

Don't forget about the Break. Plus, isn't constant hand control exactly what Shiftry is? On top of that, free retreat is really good. And you're right, it is overrated, but it is for a reason: it's good. you typically use 1 per game, but that's why I play 2-2-1 , so I have the consistency to do that. Also, if you think Lugia would work, go for it, I'd love to hear how your testing goes, since I just traded my FA to get Mega Rayquaza stuff.

I can see the argument but my main point is that Shiftry and Yanmenga hit for the same maximum amount of damage if - and only if - the defender has a tool attached. They are also based on the same principle which is hand size control but I believe that Shiftry is the bbetter choice due to (1) its first attack, (2) the dual types that fit the XY-on format, and (3) the fact that it is much easier to attach a Double Colorless than to rely on your opponent having a tool attached to the defending Pokémon. I do not understand what Shiftry gains from Yanmega. A decent basic can also be used to handle Glaceon Ex at a lower cost since Yanmega BREAK cannot ohko Glaceon Ex.

Also, if you think Lugia would work, go for it, I'd love to hear how your testing goes, since I just traded my FA to get Mega Rayquaza stuff.

Will be sure to do so once I resume testing Shiftry in the post rotation format. Still need to settle on some cards in three other decks of mine.

Not entirely sold on Mega Rayquaza. Being reliant on Skyfield is an issue since most decks run 3-4 stadium cards. In addition Giratina Ex will be popular until Fairies become more popular. Giratini Ex hurts Mega Rayquaza a lot and problems become worse when they also use Parallel City. That combo is common in Darkrai Dragon decks. Another reason for my believe that Mega Rayquaza is overhyped is that Rainbow Force Xerneas can now do the same but a little faster than Mega Rayquaza and he is a non-Ex attacker. What are your thoughts on this issue?

Also, I posted my dark list on someone else's thread that you were a part of, since I tried getting to it through your profile posts, so just check it out there, since I'm too lazy to post it again(I posted it off of memory). My bad.

Thanks. Will be sure to check it out.

 

[gumball51321]

I can see the argument but my main point is that Shiftry and Yanmenga hit for the same maximum amount of damage if - and only if - the defender has a tool attached. They are also based on the same principle which is hand size control but I believe that Shiftry is the bbetter choice due to (1) its first attack, (2) the dual types that fit the XY-on format, and (3) the fact that it is much easier to attach a Double Colorless than to rely on your opponent having a tool attached to the defending Pokémon. I do not understand what Shiftry gains from Yanmega. A decent basic can also be used to handle Glaceon Ex at a lower cost since Yanmega BREAK cannot ohko Glaceon Ex.



Will be sure to do so once I resume testing Shiftry in the post rotation format. Still need to settle on some cards in three other decks of mine.

Not entirely sold on Mega Rayquaza. Being reliant on Skyfield is an issue since most decks run 3-4 stadium cards. In addition Giratina Ex will be popular until Fairies become more popular. Giratini Ex hurts Mega Rayquaza a lot and problems become worse when they also use Parallel City. That combo is common in Darkrai Dragon decks. Another reason for my believe that Mega Rayquaza is overhyped is that Rainbow Force Xerneas can now do the same but a little faster than Mega Rayquaza and he is a non-Ex attacker. What are your thoughts on this issue?



Thanks. Will be sure to check it out.

I think that Giratina-EX will die down in play, even though megas will be MUCH bigger. Here's why: Hex Maniac completely ruins Giratina, Jirachi being a strong tech against Giratina, and Dark decks will preferably play straight dark instead of Giratina. Garbodor will also see much higher numbers. As for Parallel City, Mega Ray can easily come back, especially since most decks are going to play a one-of, that by itself will make Mega Ray evolve to fit the format. If you ask me, Mega Ray, though espensive, will be a great deck to invest in, since it evolves easily. Plus, because it's consistent, the only challenge Mega Rayquaza really has is how it plays, which really just depends on the player.

You still should at least try Yanmega Break and see how you feel then. It can really help against megas or anything with a Float stone. Fighting Fury Belt is also really common, so trust me, you shouldn't have to worry about your opponent having a tool. Don't forget this important rule about playing: You have control of your setup. You have to play your deck based on your situation, not by the generic strategy you normally use. At least not for every matchup. No offense, but by the way you post your lists, and by the way you speak, it seems like you forget that. But then again, a lot of people do. Anyway, I'll get back to this thread later when I come back from league. Good Luck!

 

[Dark Espeon]

Hi gumnall51321,

M Rayquaza Ex sure woll be decent. My main argument is that Rainbow Force Xerneas does the same and is easier to use than M Rayquaza Ex. Will also have a look at Yanmega BREAK for sure but still not sold on it.

 

[Electric Denzi]

Hey

Don't forget about the Break. Plus, isn't constant hand control exactly what Shiftry is? On top of that, free retreat is really good. And you're right, it is overrated, but it is for a reason: it's good. you typically use 1 per game, but that's why I play 2-2-1 , so I have the consistency to do that. Also, if you think Lugia would work, go for it, I'd love to hear how your testing goes, since I just traded my FA to get Mega Rayquaza stuff. Also, I posted my dark list on someone else's thread that you were a part of, since I tried getting to it through your profile posts, so just check it out there, since I'm too lazy to post it again(I posted it off of memory). My bad.

I would love to see the deck that you have play tested versus this one. I am thinking about investing in a Yanmega Break deck and see I would like to see what you run. IT sounds like you have a lot of creative ideas in reference to spicing up the Shifty and Yanmega combo.

Dark Espeon thanks for posting this list it looks like a super fun deck to play. I agree with Gumboil however. Virizion is somewhat of a waste of space. Either Lugia EX to fill its spot or Yanmega like he suggested. Thanks!

 

[Dark Espeon]

Hi Electric Denzi,

Thanks for the review. It will be Lugia Ex since I did not find a decent non-Ex attacker that runs Colorless or Grass.