Bronzong / Techs

[Camoclone]

This thread is used for all competitive discussion on Bronzong variants in the Standard format. This includes strategies, playstyles, and techs.

You may post decklists here, but only as a means to add to the discussion. If you're looking for advice on your list, post in the Deck Garage.

Articles:

Bronzong / Techs Skeleton List:

Pokémon: 17

• 3 Bronzong (PHF 61)
• 3 Bronzor (PHF 60)
• 2 Aegislash-EX (PHF 65)
• 2 Dialga-EX (PHF 62)
• 2 Heatran (PHF 63)
• 2 Shaymin-EX (ROS 77)
• 1 Lugia-EX (AOR 68)
• 1 Registeel (AOR 51)
• 1 Hoopa-EX (AOR 36)

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: 23

• 4 Professor Sycamore
• 2 Professor Birch's Observation
• 2 Lysandre

• 4 VS Seeker
• 4 Ultra Ball
• 3 Switch
• 3 Muscle Band
• 1 Battle Compressor

Energy: 10

• 6 Metal
• 4 Double Colorless Energy

Open Spots: 10

 

[Fokale]

What is the logic behind Heatran? It doesn't seem to do an awful lot.

 

[Arkylos]

I think it's there as a backup attacker and to destroy stadiums.

Also, how good is a Metagross in this deck?

 

[Fokale]

I think it's there as a backup attacker and to destroy stadiums.

Heatran's attack just does more damage based on if there is a stadium in play or not, it does not discard the stadium. As far as non EX attackers go I just think that Registeel is better.

Also, how good is a Metagross in this deck?

I assume you are talking about the magnet warp Metagross. While I have not actually tested Metagross, I assume that simply running 3 switch/escape rope would be better. I finished building this deck a little while ago, and this might sound crazy but my list includes the Dunsparce from XY (which has free retreat), and 2 switch, and 1 escape rope. What this does is you can play switch into Dunsparce, use metal links, and retreat into your attacker for the turn. It is not as good as keldeo/float stone, but it is good, and also gives you a decent attacker, in some situations.

 

[Elbow]

What is the logic behind Heatran? It doesn't seem to do an awful lot.

Pokemon with safeguard abilities or attacks would autowin against this deck without heatran. It also brings your opponent to a 7 prize game. Lastly, he's not bad of an attacker. Heatran is versatile with DCE and metal can be easily retrieved with Bronzong.

 

[Fokale]

Pokemon with safeguard abilities or attacks would autowin against this deck without heatran. It also brings your opponent to a 7 prize game. Lastly, he's not bad of an attacker. Heatran is versatile with DCE and metal can be easily retrieved with Bronzong.

I see your point, but IMO Registeel is better, as it still forces the 7 prize game. It can also OHKO Regice because of weakness, can attack Beautifly, take a hit and KO it back, and same goes for Hippowdon (usually). What sets Registeel apart is that (IMO) he is better than Heatran outside of these instances, and helps me personally a lot in some of my worse match ups.

 

[Ms Hugo]

I see your point, but IMO Registeel is better, as it still forces the 7 prize game. It can also OHKO Regice because of weakness, can attack Beautifly, take a hit and KO it back, and same goes for Hippowdon (usually). What sets Registeel apart is that (IMO) he is better than Heatran outside of these instances, and helps me personally a lot in some of my worse match ups.

While Registeel requires less Energy and has a neat ability, you can't OHKO Vespiquen, Beautifly or Hippowdon and Heatran can.

Of course, it depends on the deck. If Registeel helps better in your build outside of those matchups, all the more power to you.

 

[Elbow]

I see your point, but IMO Registeel is better, as it still forces the 7 prize game.

True, but which one has 10 more HP?

It can also OHKO Regice because of weakness, can attack Beautifly, take a hit and KO it back, and same goes for Hippowdon (usually).

To go with what I said above, "take a hit and KO it back" is better with Heatran for the extra HP. It probably won't matter in most instances, but if they hit you for 80, and you KO them, they have to find a new way to do at least 50 damage and not 40 damage. It sounds silly, but against decks like bats and donphan, that math matters a lot.
All of the OHKO and attacking stuff is true, but Heatran does this much more effectively. First off, Regice's first attack is a flip attack for 2 metal. It sucks, and to KO anything you'll need to hit a lot of consistent heads. It does KO Regice with a muscle band, but that needs two flips, which is unlikely. It's second attack really isn't much better. So it's attack is 70 damage and discards an energy attached to an EX. In theory, with a muscle band, you hit 90, discard energy, and can possibly 2HKO. What you don't estimate here is the amount of energy that gets re-attached in this format. With Mega Turbo, Mega Manectric, Mega Sceptile, Yveltal XY, Blacksmith, etc., discarding an energy is not game changing. It also does not work on Non-EXs, meaning that if you miss a muscle band, you are doing 70 damage and not discarding a DCE from a Vespiquen. 90 damage isn't what it used to be; some decks rely on higher HP mega pokemon, that would require a 3HKO from Registeel. Here's where Heatran comes in. Heatran, for the same energy count of Forbidden Iron Hammer, does 40 + 40 damage if there's a stadium out. Odds are is that there's a stadium out. You could say that the 10 extra damage is worst then discarding an energy, but I disagree. Hitting for 80 and 100 is much better against some decks. 100 damage, from muscle band, is a 2HKO to all non EXs and most basic non-exs and some stage 1s. Now, the first attack isn't the real deal-sealer. For one more metal energy, you do 130 damage, and then you discard an energy attached. Hitting for 130/150 for 3 energy is amazing. This can OHKO Shaymin-EX, Mew-EX, and most basic/stage 1s. This attack can easily set up 2HKOes and can finish off a KO. Also, with a muscle band, a 2HKO is achievable after a rough seas heal to any water EX (except wailord with a hard charm). The energy discard is null because of bronzong. AND, the pokemon you listed above: Beautifly, Hippowdon, and Regice (even with a weakness policy attached) are one shot by Heatran's second attack. To conclude, considering that they both also have the same weakness, resistance, and retreat cost, I see no reason as to why to play registeel over heatran.

 

[Fokale]

To go with what I said above, "take a hit and KO it back" is better with Heatran for the extra HP. It probably won't matter in most instances, but if they hit you for 80, and you KO them, they have to find a new way to do at least 50 damage and not 40 damage. It sounds silly, but against decks like bats and donphan, that math matters a lot.
All of the OHKO and attacking stuff is true, but Heatran does this much more effectively. First off, Regice's first attack is a flip attack for 2 metal. It sucks, and to KO anything you'll need to hit a lot of consistent heads. It does KO Regice with a muscle band, but that needs two flips, which is unlikely. It's second attack really isn't much better. So it's attack is 70 damage and discards an energy attached to an EX. In theory, with a muscle band, you hit 90, discard energy, and can possibly 2HKO. What you don't estimate here is the amount of energy that gets re-attached in this format. With Mega Turbo, Mega Manectric, Mega Sceptile, Yveltal XY, Blacksmith, etc., discarding an energy is not game changing. It also does not work on Non-EXs, meaning that if you miss a muscle band, you are doing 70 damage and not discarding a DCE from a Vespiquen. 90 damage isn't what it used to be; some decks rely on higher HP mega pokemon, that would require a 3HKO from Registeel. Here's where Heatran comes in. Heatran, for the same energy count of Forbidden Iron Hammer, does 40 + 40 damage if there's a stadium out. Odds are is that there's a stadium out. You could say that the 10 extra damage is worst then discarding an energy, but I disagree. Hitting for 80 and 100 is much better against some decks. 100 damage, from muscle band, is a 2HKO to all non EXs and most basic non-exs and some stage 1s. Now, the first attack isn't the real deal-sealer. For one more metal energy, you do 130 damage, and then you discard an energy attached. Hitting for 130/150 for 3 energy is amazing. This can OHKO Shaymin-EX, Mew-EX, and most basic/stage 1s. This attack can easily set up 2HKOes and can finish off a KO. Also, with a muscle band, a 2HKO is achievable after a rough seas heal to any water EX (except wailord with a hard charm). The energy discard is null because of bronzong. AND, the pokemon you listed above: Beautifly, Hippowdon, and Regice (even with a weakness policy attached) are one shot by Heatran's second attack. To conclude, considering that they both also have the same weakness, resistance, and retreat cost, I see no reason as to why to play registeel over heatran.

That is some very solid reasoning right there, and after reading it I may just have to include 1 Heatran in my list. That being said, I would never dream about taking out Registeel.

 

[ProZlockie]

Would two Battle Compressor be worth the space? And once it's released/reprinted (wayyy down the line), I'm guessing Float Stone will be a must. Would that be a 2-of minimum or?

 

[cardgjammer]

Now that Tyrantrum-EX is now Tournament-legal, in my opinion, I believe that with its ability negating effects on opposing Actives(meaning it can hit Safeguarders/Beautifly), plus its 190 base damage attack, and a weakness that's not covered by Eeveelutions' shenanigans, Dialga-EX in this deck skeleton has become underpowering, and when BREAKThrough comes out, the same will go to Registeel, as a damage-adder for basics, Empoleon, will hit the scene as an Archie's target.

^ I also believe that Tyrantrum-EX warrants the use of Faded Town for anti-Mega purposes. Energy? Take one DCE out and make the energy count 12 w/ 3 Fighting Energy or Double Dragon Energy, and you got a Bronzong variant capable of taking on many threats, even those that create effects that normally make them immune to EX attacks, including Regice, Hippowdon, etc. The only thing that stops it? Theta Stop, but since TPC has yet to print a pokemon with that trait that has the capabilities to create such an effect...

^ Anyway, just my two cents and my opinion regarding a post-Tyrantrum-EX and/or post-BREAKThrough skeleton of the Bronzong metadeck. I wonder if it's good enough to make the list?

 

[Ms Hugo]

I've been thinking of a Bronzong/Dragons variant for a while - Tyrantrum's attack cost is hefty but mid-to-late game, you can pop a DDE on it and Metal Links two to power it up straight away. The same goes for Giratina, which can be powered up without the need for a DCE, but it is still vulnerable to stuff like Enhanced Hammer and Xerosic, which may make it a bit weaker without Vileplume there to shut off the Hammer/VS Seeker.

Dragons also have Druddigon FLF, which can do 90 for a DCE or 2 Metal after something's been KO'd, meaning it can take out Vespiquen or finish off another Pokemon, and with Hydreigon it gets free retreat - you can have it active and Revenge for 90 while powering up stuff on the bench with Bronzong, or even just power up and retreat into another Giratina or Tyrantrum.

I may make a list and try it out at a League Challenge this weekend...