Chandelure vs Emboar

[Sheriff_K]

As far as Fire Energy acceleration goes to counter ViriGen, and also to make up for the loss of Eelektrik, most people are looking towards Emboar (Infernal Fandango.)

As such Emboars are, kind of, in high demand. I'm wondering if Chandelure PF could be just as good as Emboar, or not..

Emboar really needs a Tropical Beach in my opinion to get the necessary draw power, whereas Chandelure takes Energy directly out of the Deck, opening up different options for a Stadium card. Granted Chandelure can only do 1 Energy at a time, but unlike Emboar/Blastoise having more than 1 on Bench does more than be a back-up. And at most you'd only need 2 Energy attached per turn anyway.

Would Reshiram (Outrage/Blue Flare) be better with Chandelure, and Rayquaza EX be better with Emboar? Granted you'd use both in either Deck style, but I think that there'd be different preference depending on the choice of acceleration.

 

[Ryan Sinclair]

Some interesting thought here! I do like the ideas given, Reshiram/Chandelure and RayBoar. Emboar would play high counts of SER too, and as Ray is a Dragon I'm not sure if this sucks or not. There must be a better card to pair with Emboar...

 

[Luispipe8]

Some interesting thought here! I do like the ideas given, Reshiram/Chandelure and RayBoar. Emboar would play high counts of SER too, and as Ray is a Dragon I'm not sure if this sucks or not. There must be a better card to pair with Emboar...

You got to admit, it's a great alternative to Rayeels. Would RayBoar be our NXD-on RayEels?
Edit: And despite it's typing, Darmanitan NXD(DarMAXitan) might be a good pairing to Emboar.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

Emboar is the better one, in my opinion. Chandelure doesn't really work well if there's only one of them out. You'd need at least 2. And with how easily most decks can take out Litwicks, and how inconsistent Stage 2's are in general, that just doesn't happen that often. The 10 damage it does to your Pokemon is also a tad annoying. Plasma needs 1 less Deoxys to knock you out every time you Flare Navigate to a Pokemon, and Vir/Gen can get easier KO's on you. Megalo Cannon's 20 bench damage a few times plus some Flare Navigates can allow Megalo Cannon's 100 to kill you.

Emboar, in my opinion, is actually somewhere on the tier list. Not very high, but somewhere on there. Drawing the Energy is much easier than drawing multiples of Chandelure, especially with high Skyla and SER counts. Even though Kyurem and Suicune are very bothersome to the deck, with a high Reshiram count, it's pretty decent at steamrolling Vir/Gen. You'd also want Rayquaza in there, for every other match up.

Between Emboar and Blastoise, it really depends on the meta. The Vir/Gen match up is obviously better, and honestly, the Darkrai match up might be better too, since Emboar has higher HP. But if the Darkrai player runs Eviolite, then Blastoise has the advantage. Despite Reshiram's weakness to Suicune, Emboar is probably better at beating Suicune/Mirror than Blastoise, because it has multiple Reshiram's to KO Suicune's, while Blastoise pretty much just has Blastoise. Obviously the big one is Plasma, which Blastoise has a much better time against it than Emboar, due to it's Water Weakness.

 

[Gusto83]

I did have another post but deleted it The reason is that my honest opinion is that; This deck combo should not be played at all. Raqueza-ex was a good card and so is Emboar.But,lets face it; Kyurem/Deoxys-ex and Keldeo-ex+Float stone with Laser/bank will eat this deck up.
Kyurem will snip or catcher your Accel' Fire pokemon and OHKO them. While one of the Deoxys-ex benched will wait until your eccel' gets KO then take action over Raqueza-ex and do 30+ 30x the energy you got on it. And if Deoxys is not set up for Rayqueza,then Kyurem just needs a third energy + 3 deoxys and laser/bank for 180 damage. It sucks,but the fact is Kyurem/Deoxys and Keleo are the "IN" and RayBoar is the "OUT" in format.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Good topic.

I think both energy attachment acceleration "engines" have merit. But, I'd give Emboar higher marks primarily because you only need 1 in play to completely power-up your Poké (multiple if need be); whereas in the case of Chandelure, you would need multiple Chandy on the bench to power-up only 1 perhaps.

Drawing into the necessary energy to attach is not difficult with an Emboar deck through the usage of a strong card drawing Supporter mix. More importantly, recovering discarded energy can all be immediately put back into play with Emboar and Superior Energy Retrieval(s). With Chandelure, you'll need to Super Rod the discarded energy back into your deck and then retrieve/attach a limited number of R energy thereafter based upon the number of your benched Chandy (only 2 -3 perhaps).

Secondly, you have, IMHO, more good attackers to pair with Emboar: Rayquaza EX, Reshiram, Reshiram EX, Mewtwo EX, Bouffalant, etc. With Chandelure, your primary, viable attackers may just be limited to only Reshiram and White Kyurem EX (White Inferno). Both of these Poké inflict incremental damage given the amount of damage already on the Poké. The other downside effect of Chandelure's Ability is that you are lowering the energy receiving Poké's HP with each attached energy.

Emboar wins the contest (for me) too when you also consider overall energy attachment acceleration and management (including recycling), bench setup and management, speed to attack, etc.

 

[Sheriff_K]

Well with just 1 Chandelure you can hit for 120 per turn with either Reshiram or Rayquaza, but I see your guys' point.

As for recycling, I don't see how Super Rod is any less efficient for Chandelure than [Superior] Energy Retrieval is for Emboar..

But yeah, Kyurem... /wrists
Too overpowered, even ViriGen can't come close to that powerhouse. But I guess you could just run Silver Mirror.

 

[AlexanderTheAwesome]

Kyurem will snip or catcher your Accel' Fire pokemon and OHKO them.

Laser/bank will eat this deck up.

 

[Dork Void]

 

[AlexanderTheAwesome]

Um.... lol if its attached to a basic its a grass. the point is not to accelerate but to get rid of special conditions. You use it to fill the lightning requirement on rayquaza and the grass requirement on verdant wind

---

Nobody I know runs 3 tool scrapper :/

 

[TuxedoBlack]

As for recycling, I don't see how Super Rod is any less efficient for Chandelure than [Superior] Energy Retrieval is for Emboar..

The primary difference is the amount of energy you can attach after recovering the discarded energy: with Chandelure (I'ved played against this deck), you may be able to put 2 into play consistently; whereas with Emboar (I've built and played RayBoar), I could consistently keep 4 energy in play (and across multiple Poké, if need be).

 

[Sheriff_K]

Nobody I know runs 3 tool scrapper :/

Welcome to the new Meta! Everyone will be running at least 2 Scrappers, some extremely austere individuals will be running 3.

 

[Dork Void]

Nobody I know runs 3 tool scrapper :/

In Plasma? That's a rather risky move. Besides, you're running the Stage 2 deck, not them; you don't have space for techs. Laserbank isn't even going to as common anyway and I don't see how it hurts this deck so much that it needs Virizion anyway.

 

[Gusto83]

Kyurem will snip or catcher your Accel' Fire pokemon and OHKO them.

Laser/bank will eat this deck up.

and

Problem solved

 

[AlexanderTheAwesome]

In Plasma? That's a rather risky move. Besides, you're running the Stage 2 deck, not them; you don't have space for techs. Laserbank isn't even going to as common anyway and I don't see how it hurts this deck so much that it needs Virizion anyway.

lol i know, i just wanted to prove him wrong. it would make the deck too clunky to run virizion (ive been testing it since the rotation was announced) and trust me keeping emboar alive is no issue, and vir/gen isnt even an issue since you go aggro reshiram. plasma is pretty close believe it or not. its dependent on whether or not you can get your emboar up turn 2 and a silver mirror on it (the silv. mir. isnt the issue obv its the candy boar part) ray destroys plasma and unless they run 3 scrappers as i said, then they have a rather large issue keeping your pigs in general off the board.
Vir- 90/10 in your favor
Plasma- 45/55 in their favor
IMHO

@gusto okay when you make a plasma list solely to counter an emboar deck i think we should re-evaluate your deck-building techniques lol

 

[Sheriff_K]

Hmm, time to get my hands on some Emboars then.. Since all I have is Chandelure. >_<
4-1-3, 4-0-3, 4-1-4, or 4-0-4 for Emboar?

 

[Sirmaiik]

Oh Sir, in termns of lasting yeah, Emboat suits better engine than Chandy, but lets face it: An overly Manly Deck plays Chandelure/Reshiram/W-Kyurem and its designed to recieve damage, so making it a highly risky deck, but on the contrary, it benefits a lot from Frozen City (I run one on this deck) and also virbanks, plus bench damage is more than welcome to fuel the Rage/Inferno.

The "bad" thingie... is that since pre-release Dialga Ex is becoming popular in town as a colorless Dragon striker, and the constant abuse of garchomps/haxorus

As for the reshi/ray/boar It's like the new meta-blastoise, a deck that still tops facing the pre-release

 

[Dork Void]

He thinks that using Enhanced Hammer and Tool Scrapper in Plasma means you're trying to counter Emboar. Also you screwed up the quote; I didn't say that, AtA did.

 

[Gusto83]

He thinks that using Enhanced Hammer and Tool Scrapper in Plasma means you're trying to counter Emboar. Also you screwed up the quote; I didn't say that, AtA did.

sorry.

 

[Serperior]

Hmm, time to get my hands on some Emboars then.. Since all I have is Chandelure. >_<
4-1-3, 4-0-3, 4-1-4, or 4-0-4 for Emboar?

I'd go 4-1-4. You can't always rely on pulling the Rare Candy, (run three, it's fine), which is why we throw Pignite in there for kicks.

I'm gonna be honest - I really like Chandelure because of how it can swipe Energy from the deck. You don't have to worry about drawing into them and you'd be able to spend more time setting up another Chandy instead. Unfortunately, the only decent partner we have with this card is White Kyurem-EX, and it just doesn't have enough going for it. White Inferno is a nifty attack, but chances are you'll be slowed down after you get KO'd first. To charge up this card in one turn...yup. You'll need three Chandy and a manual Water Energy attachment. Keldeo/Blastoise rarely, if ever, sees three Blastoise in play, let alone two when they're having a great game. Thus, we're pushing it here. Reshiram's 120 isn't enough nowadays either. (You're not getting around Kyurem unless you Laser.)

With that being said, Emboar is the better play. Yes, you'll need your Superior Energy Retrieval and you'll have to max out on Skyla (or run three). But I think with how popular VirGen is getting, you should tech in an Emboar from BC. I'm not digging Rayquaza as a main attacker as much as I used to, so I think it'd be kinda cool to see something like Entei-EX in the spotlight. It has some Energy acceleration on its own, and you don't need to be wholeheartedly reliant on Emboar if it gets targeted. If you do run LaserBank, you run Reshiram so you get the magical 130 on some of your plays. Plus, it's a non-EX Pokémon, so that's pretty swell.