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Alt. Format ChandeZard

K-Genesis

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Just a little something to discuss for post-rotation, as I believe this might fly under the radar during the initial hype.

Pokémon: 22

4-4-4 Chandelure (UNM)
2 Charmeleon (TEU)
4 Charizard (TEU)
2 Blaziken (DRM)
1 Magcargo (CST)
1 Ninetales (TEU)

A heavy pokemon line to feed Chandelure's Soul Burner, the engine of the deck.
Since Litwick is the only Basic pokemon available (and the only one we need), the gameplan is rock-solid as there's no such thing as a bad opening.
Charmeleon is needed so we don't get stuck with Charizard in hand.
Charizard is the main attacker, dropping TT bodies like there's no tomorrow.
Blaziken is an alternate attacker against 1-prizers and bench-sitters, but it's there for synergy with the heavy-discarding (R) pulls off.
Magcargo and Ninetales as utility.

Trainer: 28

4 Green's Exploration
3 Welder
3 Professor Elm's Lecture
2 Cynthia
1 Brock's Grit

4 PokeGear 3.0
4 Pokemon Communication
3 Dusk Stone
2 Giant Hearth
1 Energy Recycler
Heat Factory Prism Star


Green's as the second engine of the deck, even if it's dead late-game, it's crucial for the first setup where nothing else matters but having Chandelure on board.
Elm serves as Litwick search but also to feed a t2 Comm, since we never really want more than 2 Litwick.
Brock's Grit avoids late-game starvation.
Draw power complements the Supporter choices.

PokeGear maxed out because you have to hit Green's, no matter what.
PokeComm maxed out because you have to hit Lampent t2, no matter what. Also, you don't want a bunch of evomon lingering in hand.
Energy Recycler for the same reason as Brock's.
Draw/search power complements the Item choices.

Energy: 10

10 Fire Energy

Although the energy numbers seem a bit low, some strategic thinking on when to power up is enough to manage them.

--------------------------------------

Gameplan is simple: set up a Chandelure by t2, attack with Soul Burner once or twice, getting a bench full of (R) pokemon, most of them being Charizard. Go nuts from there.
My testing group and I have been running this for some time and it works, against all odds. Its' own worst enemy, of course, is itself. If Soul Burner flops, the game crumbles.

But that's not what I'm here for. The thing is, since this is a deck running only 4 Basic pokemon, I feel like there's room for Reset Stamp. You're bound to give your opponent a lot of extra cards during the opening salvo and that could lose you the game depending on what you're up against. I wanted to collect some opinions on what could give room for a couple of stamps.

Any ideas?
 
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I love this archetype and think it definitely has potential, if the right cards are found to make it sing.

How often does soul burner flop? Would be nice to know before I get to hyped, lol.

Have you considered mysterious treasure and psychic litwicks and lampents? That would double your outs to them.

Another consideration would be baby incineroar, because charizard goes from hitting 130/180/230 to hitting 160/210/260, meaning dedenne, any stage 1 GXs, and tag teams (with a shrine tick) all go down easier. Not to mention the odd baby stage 2 deck.

Also I hate to break it to you, but superboost is just a single card so charizard only does the normal 50 for discarding it (the attack mentions number of cards rather than number of energy).

What to cut for stamps? Hard to say... maybe welder?
 
How often does soul burner flop? Would be nice to know before I get to hyped, lol.

Took us a while to get the right numbers. With 22 Pokémon, the very first one pretty much never flops. Depending on how well you hit it, the third one is where it cracks (mid game, after two or three Zard are down). But even then, it's workable.

Have you considered mysterious treasure and psychic litwicks and lampents? That would double your outs to them.

We did, but hitting (R) pokemon is more important. Even Lampent is a good hit, since it sets up another Chandelure. Besides, it'd need more room for Treasures, which is unaffordable right now.

Another consideration would be baby incineroar, because charizard goes from hitting 130/180/230 to hitting 160/210/260, meaning dedenne, any stage 1 GXs, and tag teams (with a shrine tick) all go down easier. Not to mention the odd baby stage 2 deck.

Baby Roar was widely tested but found lacking. This deck doesn't run Shrine, so it can't hit 270dmg. 210hp isn't a concern right now. And low counts make it inconsistent.

Also I hate to break it to you, but superboost is just a single card so charizard only does the normal 50 for discarding it (the attack mentions number of cards rather than number of energy).

You're right, I keep forgetting that. Most likely nobody got that as well, might consider it a (R) energy anyway.

What to cut for stamps? Hard to say... maybe welder?

That was my first hunch, since getting the full effect is not easy here. But having it around for a surprise Zard stomp is crucial, so I'm wrestling with this decision. Most likely will go down a copy, if need be. Thanks for the input, man.
 
Ok, I did a little testing on ptcgo in a roundabout way, replacing litwicks in your list with zangooses(zangeese?). I could pretty reliably get lampent/dusk stone in hand for (theoretical) turn two chandelure, but when I then used zangoose's attack, I often only hit 1 or 2, and it actually looks at 6 vs chandelure's 5. Are we sure 22 is enough? Was I just getting bad RNG?
 
Hey, thanks for taking the time. Great idea, by the way, using Zangoose.

For the sake of efficiency, we consider a Soul Burner flopping if it hits less than 2 pokémon. The intent of Soul Burner isn't to K.O. stuff but to set Zards.

Also, the initial drafts started with 18 Pokémon. Even then, it would set up, even if we needed 2 consecutive SBurner, which is fine. We only got to up the numbers once we realized that a midgame flop ends the match.

With that said, I'm going with bad RNG for your tests. But I see a small issue: difficulty with emulating a second SBurner. Assuming the first one doesn't flop completely, a second straight SBurner won't set the gameplan back. So there's that. I was considering a 23rd Pokémon, but no more.
 
I did notice after a poor first attack, the second one was quite a bit better. Did you find in testing you could avoid having orphaned zards after a below average first attack? Assuming opponents played meta decks or close to?
 
Not sure I understand the question. Do you mean hitting a single Zard after SBurner and losing the current Chandelure? (assuming you don't have a second one ready)

If so, rush a second one at all costs. You have Elm, Comm and stuff as such. Not much to do about it.
 
Yeah, that's what I was worried about, losing your only chandelure. I definitely want to play this as soon as rotation happens on ptcgo... did you decide what cut for stamps? What about cynthia? Seems like she might fill your hand with the stuff you want in deck (pokemon and energy).
 
I had an opportunity to test some stuff this weekend and decided for a small change:

-1 Welder
- Heat Factory Prism Star

+2 Reset Stamp

Welder is situational, albeit important, and is usually at hand when needed. In a deck meant to drain energies fast, a third Welder is usually a dead card.
Heat Factory goes for the same reason Salazzle didn't make the cut: you spend a precious resource (energy) for an action that might hurt the deck (getting Pokémon in hand).

What about cynthia? Seems like she might fill your hand with the stuff you want in deck (pokemon and energy).

Low amounts of Cynthia are reasonable, especially early, to get out of bad hands with lots of Pokémon in it. But yeah, there's risk involved.
 
I built a just keep chandy-ing version, and so far it's snacking on everything on the ladder. List if you want:

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 23

* 2 Litwick UNM 28
* 3 Lampent UNM 29
* 3 Magcargo CES 24
* 3 Blaziken DRM 6
* 4 Chandelure UNM 30
* 3 Charizard TEU 14
* 2 Incineroar UNB 29
* 2 Litwick LOT 101
* 1 Lampent LOT 102

##Trainer Cards - 27

* 2 Mysterious Treasure FLI 113
* 2 Viridian Forest TEU 156
* 4 Dusk Stone UNB 167
* 2 Tate & Liza CES 148
* 3 Misty's Favor UNM 202
* 4 Brock's Grit TEU 135
* 4 Green’s Exploration UNB 175
* 4 Pokégear 3.0 UNB 182
* 2 Pokémon Communication BLW 99

##Energy - 10

* 10 Fire Energy SMEnergy 11

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

My desire in this altered version is to not only get the turn 2 chandy but ideally get into a misty's favor as well, which can draw 3 supporters out of the deck meaning you can get your switching cards (T&L) and your keep-it-going cards (brock). Charizard is mainly a deck thinning support/finisher, rather than the dual main. Not sure on incineroar (probably not needed) but having magcargo down is so important I have 3 in. If you miss an attack magcargo can at least get you the card you need to resume next turn, and if not you get to pick what goes on the bench each turn.
 
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