ORAS Changes to the Hoenn Pokédex?

[Meaty]

Do you guys think that the regional Hoenn dex might be modified in these games? The pokedex system itself could be divided into regions of Hoenn, kind of like in X & Y. I could imagine a land and water system going, since half the region is water after all. More importantly, new pokemon could be added. In HeartGold & SoulSilver, for example, a few gen 4 evolutions of gen 1 and 2 pokemon were added, namely the ones that evolved through level up and moves, since that couldn't be kept from the main game like items could. I'm personally hoping that ORAS will get this sort of treatment or even more of an upgrade. There are plenty of gen 4 evolutions of Hoenn pokemon that it would be nice to see in-game (Roserade, Gallade, Froslass, etc.) This could be a way to improve the rosters of some gym leaders and elite four members and trainers in general. I know Phoebe and Glacia of the elite four had very bland rosters in the original games, and a Dusknoir and Froslass respectively would make them a lot more interesting, for example. And of course there's also the possible inclusion of mega evolutions like Manectric and Aggron. What do you guys think will happen to the pokedex, and what are you hoping to see?

 

[Bolt the Cat]

RE: Changes to the Hoenn Pokedex?

I was planning on making a thread about this, you beat me to it.

Well, what I want to happen and what I think is going to happen are two different things. What I want to happen is for them to expand the Dex somewhat significantly with not just new evolutions, but new families from other generations (more 1st and 2nd gen Pokemon yes, but also 4th, 5th, maybe even a few 6th gen Pokemon as well). It should be a fairly large expansion, but not as large as Kalos to the point where they take focus away from the 3rd gen Pokemon, with a total size of roughly 250-300. This would give them enough room to solve many of the Hoenn Dex's problems, being a lack of variety in certain types (Ice, Ghost, Dragon, and Fairy), as well as a lack of variety in distribution (for instance, most of the water routes in the game primarily consist of Tentacool and Wingull in their distribution). What I think's going to happen, though? Probably not much. At best, maybe add the new evolutions (Chingling, Budew, Roserade, Gallade, Froslass, Probopass, Dusknoir, Magnezone, and Rhyperior) and then throw in Regigigas to round it out to an even 210 (plus Jirachi and Deoxys makes it 212). Same with Mega Evolutions, they could include Mega Evolutions in the story if they wanted to (and you'd probably obtain the Mega Ring sometime around the 5th gym), but I think they might just save it for post game. It really depends on how much they're willing to change in this game, do they want to remain faithful to the original or are they willing to take some liberties to improve the experience? So far, it's been more the former, and although they have started to lean more towards the latter nowadays (BW2 being a prime example), I'm remaining a bit skeptical that they'll change that this time (mainly because of the timing, the fact that this game is releasing this early leads me to believe that they may be rushing it to some degree).

Regardless of whether or not they're in the main game or post game, though, I think we'll be seeing a lot of Pokemon in this game that were either unobtainable or rare (most notably Friend Safari Pokemon) in XY. And there's plenty of Pokemon in that group that would fit Hoenn's environments, Frillish, Darumaka, Tynamo, Misdreavus, Cherubi, Finneon, Electabuzz, Magmar, Galvantula, Klink, Growlithe, Larvesta, Vullaby, Rufflet, Dewgong, Cottonee, Petilil, etc. Shellos and Deerling could also use new methods to get their other forms.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

My main concern is really with Shellos and Gastrodon. Like CMP said in one thread of mine, those two seem to better fit Hoenn than Sinnoh. Aside from that the evolutions introduced in Sinnoh, I don't want to see that many Pokémon except for the Water ones, both from Sinnoh, Isshu and Kalos, because those are the most needed to fill up the marine fauna. Oh yes, Lapras is a must!! Basculin...keep those things away from Hoenn, Carvanha is enough! Also, Palpitoad isn't needed. Tirtouga would be great. I was thinking of adding Deerling and Sawsbuck to Petalburg Woods but Skiddo and Gogoat seem like a better choice. The elemental monkeys would also be nice, with Panpour in Dewford, Pansear in the ashes route because of it's (or Simisear's) description of helping making pottery and Pansage perhaps in a new island more to the south. Lilligant and Cottonee definitely need to be introduced near Verdanturff as well as (perhaps) Flabébé. About Probopass, make a new island where there's magnetic power because the existing caves don't need to have all of a sudden some "magnet stone" to allow for evolution, the same goes for the Moss and Icy rock. I don't wanna see the Dewgong family, the Spheal one is enough and unless a new island is added to the northeast, I can't see Froslass fitting in because its more suitable in a snowy scenario than one of just ice, like Shoal Cave. I'm not that sure about the Isshu bird duo (Braviary and Vullaby) because while they would fit the region between Fallarbor and Meteor Falls, I think it's best to leave some space with just the local fauna instead of adding new ones, after all, Hoenn is an archipellago so it would be harder for foreigner species to settle in. I would like to see Phantump and Pumpkaboo being catchable at night in Petalburgh Woods but again, I don't know if this would be a nice move, unless they expand the Woods.
Meteor Falls...no new Dragon Pokémon, but Elygem would fit.
I definitely don't want to see any Pidove, Patrat, Mareep, Lillipup, Purloin, Riolu, Bunnelby and most of Kalos Pokémon being add. Please, no Darumaka! All other Pokémon like Maractus, Ferrothorn, Sawsbuck, etc, make a migrating system or a bigger Safari (this last seems the best) (or both) but one where friends and connections aren't needed.

PS: Klefki could be obtainable in trash cans inside Lilycove Hotel or the Trick Master's house.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

My main concern is really with Shellos and Gastrodon. Like CMP said in one thread of mine, those two seem to better fit Hoenn than Sinnoh.

Problem is, where would they be caught? There needs to be places for both forms to be caught, and while I can see maybe Rt. 104 as a good choice for West Sea, I can't find a very fitting place for East Sea. I was thinking making them post game and put West Sea on the south side of Dewford Island and East Sea in the archipelago, but at the same time, considering Shellos' origins as a scrapped 3rd gen Pokemon, it might be appropriate to include them in the main game.

Aside from that the evolutions introduced in Sinnoh, I don't want to see that many Pokémon except for the Water ones, both from Sinnoh, Isshu and Kalos, because those are the most needed to fill up the marine fauna. Oh yes, Lapras is a must!! Basculin...keep those things away from Hoenn, Carvanha is enough! Also, Palpitoad isn't needed. Tirtouga would be great.

Lapras would indeed be a good addition to the Hoenn Dex, it would add variety because it's Ice type, and it could add variety to the Water routes (I'm thinking it would be good for Rt. 125 especially). Basculin I agree was overdone a bit in Unova. And although Frillish is in the same boat, I can't think of a Pokemon more deserving of a Hoenn Dex spot because it adds type variety (being Ghost type, which we need more of), it fits Hoenn like a glove, and it's completely unavailable in XY. Palpitoad would be all right, but I'd rather see Poliwhirl so we can have an extra Fighting type (I can't think of a better one to include). Tirtouga would be an interesting choice, we've never seen a nonnative fossil in a regional dex before, but if they do that, it's probably not going to be in a Water route, and they're probably going to include its counterpart Archen. For the late game water types I'm thinking Remoraid and Mantyke for Surfing, maybe Krabby/Kingler for fishing, and Finneon and Clauncher/Skrelp for underwater.

I was thinking of adding Deerling and Sawsbuck to Petalburg Woods but Skiddo and Gogoat seem like a better choice.

Deerling/Sawsbuck have the issue of needing all four of its forms distributed in some way, so if there's no seasons in the game, they'd need to be distributed in four different season based locations.

Skiddo, I could be wrong about this, but I don't think it really fits a forest location.

The elemental monkeys would also be nice, with Panpour in Dewford, Pansear in the ashes route because of it's (or Simisear's) description of helping making pottery and Pansage perhaps in a new island more to the south.

The monkeys are basically pseudo starters so they wouldn't be put in different areas. And they're usually in forest areas, so if they were in the Dex, they'd probably just put them in Petalburg Woods. Honestly though, I'd rather not see them in this game, they've gotten way too much attention in 5th gen adn we already got them again in 6th gen.

About Probopass, make a new island where there's magnetic power because the existing caves don't need to have all of a sudden some "magnet stone" to allow for evolution, the same goes for the Moss and Icy rock.

They don't really need to. They can make New Mauville the "magnetic" area, and put Moss Rock and Icy Rock in Petalburg Woods and Shoal Cave respectively.

I don't wanna see the Dewgong family, the Spheal one is enough and unless a new island is added to the northeast, I can't see Froslass fitting in because its more suitable in a snowy scenario than one of just ice, like Shoal Cave.

Dewgong, maybe. In general, the Ice types I had in mind were mainly Water based (Dewgong, Lapras, and Beartic), so it would be somewhat unvaried. I was also thinking Vanillite would be good as a gift Pokemon in the Seashore House on Rt. 109 (which they can retcon and say they sell not just Soda Pop, but also Casteliacones) for beating all of the trainers, giving you early access to an Ice type. But aside from those, I think Sneasel, Piloswine, and Cryogonal would be good alternatives.

I'm not that sure about the Isshu bird duo (Braviary and Vullaby) because while they would fit the region between Fallarbor and Meteor Falls, I think it's best to leave some space with just the local fauna instead of adding new ones, after all, Hoenn is an archipellago so it would be harder for foreigner species to settle in.

Maybe. I actually think the birds should be swarm Pokemon for somewhere like Rt. 113 or Jagged Pass.

I would like to see Phantump and Pumpkaboo being catchable at night in Petalburgh Woods but again, I don't know if this would be a nice move, unless they expand the Woods.

I don't think that would be a terrible move, but considering we already have Sableye in Granite Cave and nothing until Mt. Pyre, perhaps it'd be better to put a Ghost type somewhere in that gap. Maybe somewhere like Rt. 117.

I definitely don't want to see any Pidove, Patrat, Mareep, Lillipup, Purloin, Riolu, Bunnelby and most of Kalos Pokémon being add. Please, no Darumaka! All other Pokémon like Maractus, Ferrothorn, Sawsbuck, etc, make a migrating system or a bigger Safari (this last seems the best) (or both) but one where friends and connections aren't needed.

First of all, I think they should try and minimize Friend Safari exclusives because there's somewhat of a luck element in trying to get a specific Friend Code. That's why I think some of the Friend Safari exclusives should be added to the Hoenn Dex or distributed in other ways (like post game areas, swarms, Poke Radar, pretty much any way that you don't need another person for). But I definitely agree to no Patrat, Mareep, Purrloin, and Riolu, those have been overdone.

Here's some of the Pokemon I wanted to see added:
Petilil (Omega Ruby only)/Cottonee (Alpha Sapphire only)- Rt. 123 (Rt. 123 needs some kind of Pokemon to make it worth visiting, plus Cottonee would add more Fairy types to the game. The reason I switched them from where they normally are is to balance out the options for Fairy types in the game, since Omega Ruby will already be getting Mawile)
Joltik- New Mauville (to make the area less of a Voltorb/Magnemite fest)
Klink- New Mauville (see Joltik)
Togepi- Rt. 117 (Okay, I'll admit I have a bit of a bias towards Togepi since it's my favorite Fairy type, but it's Friend Safari exclusive so we haven't had much opportunity to use it yet, plus we need more Fairies)
Darumaka- Rt. 113 (so the area is more than just Spinda, Sandshrew, and Skarmory)
Gible- Rt. 111 (adds an extra Dragon to the game. Distribution wise, we already have access to all of the Dragons, so it doesn't really matter as much, but Gible fits in well enough, so why not?)
Larvesta/Volcarona- Scorched Slab (self explanatory)
Misdreavus- Mt. Pyre (not obtainable in 6th gen, plus we need more Ghost types)
Litwick- Mt. Pyre (Ghost type, adds variety, fits Mt. Pyre)
Frillish- Rt. 122, Abandoned Ship, pretty much anywhere (Not in XY, Ghost type, and fits anywhere)
Finneon- Underwater
Skrelp (Omega Ruby only)/Clauncher (Alpha Sapphire only)- Underwater
Eelektrik- Seafloor Cavern (Not in XY, and fits right into Seafloor Cavern, which needs something besides Zubat/Golbat)
Druddigon- Victory Road, Sky Pillar (Again, there's any number of Dragon types to choose, but it would add variety to those areas, especially Victory Road which has too many unevolved Pokemon in the distribution)

 

[Meaty]

Shellos might actually be a real possibility because it was originally designed for generation 3 but they later decided not to put it in. I think that's why it has appearances that lean more towards either water or ground, because of how Hoenn is set up. The whole west/east half of Mt. Coronet thing didn't make that much sense to me, especially when it came to Shellos and Gastrodon.

EDIT: Oh, Bolt said the scrapped 3rd gen pokemon thing while I was typing this... Anyway, my point still stands, I think they were meant to look like ground and water forms. Or I guess it could work like Bolt said, both could be found in water as there are the Western sea routes.

we've never seen a nonnative fossil in a regional dex before,

Except you know, every fossil was available in X & Y as early as before the second gym.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

we've never seen a nonnative fossil in a regional dex before,

Except you know, every fossil was available in X & Y as early as before the second gym.

Nope, that was after you beat the game. Nonnative fossils have always been post game.

 

[Meaty]

Nope, that was after you beat the game. Nonnative fossils have always been post game.

I know that I personally got an Aerodactyl that early in my playthrough...

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Nope, that was after you beat the game. Nonnative fossils have always been post game.

I know that I personally got an Aerodactyl that early in my playthrough...

Huh. I guess Aerodactyl was an exception.

 

[Athena]

Yeah, you could get Aerodactyl in the fossil cave early game by smashing rocks. My husband lucked into one his first go-through of that cave, leading me to go in and out a few times smashing rocks until I found one myself.

As Shellos/Gastrodon is one of my favourite Pokémon of all time, I would certainly love to see it in the new Hoenn Pokédex. If they want to keep the East/West theme, they gave have the West Sea found found towards the west side of the map (by where Mr. Briney boats you through in the early game), and the East Sea available in the east by the town with the mall and where you first start entering the long surfing/diving routes. Can't remember the names well, but there's definitely some distinct west/east action that can be used for that.

It seems like we'll likely have a greatly expanded Pokédex, with Gen 4/5/6 Pokémon all now possibly available. Would be nice to see a good mix of different, later Pokémon representing all the new regions and a large variety of types, too, though I wouldn't be surprise if it leaned more towards the Water-type spectrum, simply because of how much water there is in Hoenn to begin with.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

My main concern is really with Shellos and Gastrodon. Like CMP said in one thread of mine, those two seem to better fit Hoenn than Sinnoh.

Problem is, where would they be caught? There needs to be places for both forms to be caught, and while I can see maybe Rt. 104 as a good choice for West Sea, I can't find a very fitting place for East Sea. I was thinking making them post game and put West Sea on the south side of Dewford Island and East Sea in the archipelago, but at the same time, considering Shellos' origins as a scrapped 3rd gen Pokemon, it might be appropriate to include them in the main game.

Aside from that the evolutions introduced in Sinnoh, I don't want to see that many Pokémon except for the Water ones, both from Sinnoh, Isshu and Kalos, because those are the most needed to fill up the marine fauna. Oh yes, Lapras is a must!! Basculin...keep those things away from Hoenn, Carvanha is enough! Also, Palpitoad isn't needed. Tirtouga would be great.

Lapras would indeed be a good addition to the Hoenn Dex, it would add variety because it's Ice type, and it could add variety to the Water routes (I'm thinking it would be good for Rt. 125 especially). Basculin I agree was overdone a bit in Unova. And although Frillish is in the same boat, I can't think of a Pokemon more deserving of a Hoenn Dex spot because it adds type variety (being Ghost type, which we need more of), it fits Hoenn like a glove, and it's completely unavailable in XY. Palpitoad would be all right, but I'd rather see Poliwhirl so we can have an extra Fighting type (I can't think of a better one to include). Tirtouga would be an interesting choice, we've never seen a nonnative fossil in a regional dex before, but if they do that, it's probably not going to be in a Water route, and they're probably going to include its counterpart Archen. For the late game water types I'm thinking Remoraid and Mantyke for Surfing, maybe Krabby/Kingler for fishing, and Finneon and Clauncher/Skrelp for underwater.

I was thinking of adding Deerling and Sawsbuck to Petalburg Woods but Skiddo and Gogoat seem like a better choice.

Deerling/Sawsbuck have the issue of needing all four of its forms distributed in some way, so if there's no seasons in the game, they'd need to be distributed in four different season based locations.

Skiddo, I could be wrong about this, but I don't think it really fits a forest location.

The elemental monkeys would also be nice, with Panpour in Dewford, Pansear in the ashes route because of it's (or Simisear's) description of helping making pottery and Pansage perhaps in a new island more to the south.

The monkeys are basically pseudo starters so they wouldn't be put in different areas. And they're usually in forest areas, so if they were in the Dex, they'd probably just put them in Petalburg Woods. Honestly though, I'd rather not see them in this game, they've gotten way too much attention in 5th gen adn we already got them again in 6th gen.

About Probopass, make a new island where there's magnetic power because the existing caves don't need to have all of a sudden some "magnet stone" to allow for evolution, the same goes for the Moss and Icy rock.

They don't really need to. They can make New Mauville the "magnetic" area, and put Moss Rock and Icy Rock in Petalburg Woods and Shoal Cave respectively.

I don't wanna see the Dewgong family, the Spheal one is enough and unless a new island is added to the northeast, I can't see Froslass fitting in because its more suitable in a snowy scenario than one of just ice, like Shoal Cave.

Dewgong, maybe. In general, the Ice types I had in mind were mainly Water based (Dewgong, Lapras, and Beartic), so it would be somewhat unvaried. I was also thinking Vanillite would be good as a gift Pokemon in the Seashore House on Rt. 109 (which they can retcon and say they sell not just Soda Pop, but also Casteliacones) for beating all of the trainers, giving you early access to an Ice type. But aside from those, I think Sneasel, Piloswine, and Cryogonal would be good alternatives.

I'm not that sure about the Isshu bird duo (Braviary and Vullaby) because while they would fit the region between Fallarbor and Meteor Falls, I think it's best to leave some space with just the local fauna instead of adding new ones, after all, Hoenn is an archipellago so it would be harder for foreigner species to settle in.

Maybe. I actually think the birds should be swarm Pokemon for somewhere like Rt. 113 or Jagged Pass.

I would like to see Phantump and Pumpkaboo being catchable at night in Petalburgh Woods but again, I don't know if this would be a nice move, unless they expand the Woods.

I don't think that would be a terrible move, but considering we already have Sableye in Granite Cave and nothing until Mt. Pyre, perhaps it'd be better to put a Ghost type somewhere in that gap. Maybe somewhere like Rt. 117.

I definitely don't want to see any Pidove, Patrat, Mareep, Lillipup, Purloin, Riolu, Bunnelby and most of Kalos Pokémon being add. Please, no Darumaka! All other Pokémon like Maractus, Ferrothorn, Sawsbuck, etc, make a migrating system or a bigger Safari (this last seems the best) (or both) but one where friends and connections aren't needed.

First of all, I think they should try and minimize Friend Safari exclusives because there's somewhat of a luck element in trying to get a specific Friend Code. That's why I think some of the Friend Safari exclusives should be added to the Hoenn Dex or distributed in other ways (like post game areas, swarms, Poke Radar, pretty much any way that you don't need another person for). But I definitely agree to no Patrat, Mareep, Purrloin, and Riolu, those have been overdone.

Here's some of the Pokemon I wanted to see added:
Petilil (Omega Ruby only)/Cottonee (Alpha Sapphire only)- Rt. 123 (Rt. 123 needs some kind of Pokemon to make it worth visiting, plus Cottonee would add more Fairy types to the game. The reason I switched them from where they normally are is to balance out the options for Fairy types in the game, since Omega Ruby will already be getting Mawile)
Joltik- New Mauville (to make the area less of a Voltorb/Magnemite fest)
Klink- New Mauville (see Joltik)
Togepi- Rt. 117 (Okay, I'll admit I have a bit of a bias towards Togepi since it's my favorite Fairy type, but it's Friend Safari exclusive so we haven't had much opportunity to use it yet, plus we need more Fairies)
Darumaka- Rt. 113 (so the area is more than just Spinda, Sandshrew, and Skarmory)
Gible- Rt. 111 (adds an extra Dragon to the game. Distribution wise, we already have access to all of the Dragons, so it doesn't really matter as much, but Gible fits in well enough, so why not?)
Larvesta/Volcarona- Scorched Slab (self explanatory)
Misdreavus- Mt. Pyre (not obtainable in 6th gen, plus we need more Ghost types)
Litwick- Mt. Pyre (Ghost type, adds variety, fits Mt. Pyre)
Frillish- Rt. 122, Abandoned Ship, pretty much anywhere (Not in XY, Ghost type, and fits anywhere)
Finneon- Underwater
Skrelp (Omega Ruby only)/Clauncher (Alpha Sapphire only)- Underwater
Eelektrik- Seafloor Cavern (Not in XY, and fits right into Seafloor Cavern, which needs something besides Zubat/Golbat)
Druddigon- Victory Road, Sky Pillar (Again, there's any number of Dragon types to choose, but it would add variety to those areas, especially Victory Road which has too many unevolved Pokemon in the distribution)

Since the East Gastrodon is blue and green, perhaps to the south or east of Mossdeep City would be good (moss, green, you see my point), while keeping the West at Dewford or Rt. 104. That, or give Sheelos new colours, associated with North/South since Hoenn was rotated by the creators to look like it is now. It would be nice!

Jellicent could only be available in the sunken parts of Abandoned ship (I can't see a more fitting place) and the diving areas. I do prefer Poliwhirl to Palpitoad because since Palpitoad is also Ground it would be too much with Marshtomp (despite being a starter) and Barboach. Palpitoad and its family seems too much (even more than Poliwag & Co.) connected to rivers and ponds so it would be a little akward to see them in Hoenn. Poliwhirl could be available north of Oldale (I was thinking Petalburgh but there's Corphish and they're territorial so...) and the North section of Rt. 104, near the Flower shop. Ok, Tympole here would also fit but just them...yes, add Poliwag and Tympole but not their evolutions.

Both Archen and Tirtouga could be obtainable after the story with Magma/Aqua and the submarine...or even before, namely the second, as a new specimen to the Oceanic Museum but having also found Archen in the same island where they've found Tirtouga. For this, I would like to see an expanded Devon Corporation with some underground labs, instead of just that bussiness look.
I do agree with all the placements you made and the Water Pokémon.

Sawsbuck is better to stay out, exactly because of the seasons...well, in the end, both it and Skiddo/Gogoat should because their introduction to Hoenn would be akward. Add them to the Safari and in the case of Sawsbuck, its forms distributed between different areas.

That's something I could never understand: why have the monkeys always have to be together!? They're monkeys, so they don't fit that much in the forests of Isshu, but they do seem to fit Hoenn and Dewford has some trees, so a grass patch near those would be nice, and the route to Fallarbor also has trees and it's affected by Mt. Chimney. I can see them in Hoenn, but also in the Safari.

Good thinking. Since Nosepass is from Dewford I wasn't seeing that New Mauville could be used for that, but it's a good idea. Icy rock in Shoal Cave...ok, Moss rock in Petalburgh...since Mossdeep doen't seems to be getting any patch of grass with Elygem, then it's the only option...or perhaps somewhere near Fortree, in either one of the routes leding and coming from there.

My only problem with Dewgong is its similarity (speaking of species) to Sealeo but it's still better than having Beartic in Hoenn...unless they have a frozen glaciar to the north of Shoal Cave or even a deeper section for the cave, namely to give the impression that Mamoswine (I prefer this one to Piloswine) ended up caught in there for thousands of years.
I do like the idea of Casteliacones and Vanillite.

As swarms the birds are indeed fine but Skarmory should remain as the bird of Route 113, with Braviary in Route 114 and Mandibuzz in the Desert/R.111 (Maractus should go to the Safari).

Hum...Route 117 seems too "happy" for them. One area I always thought was in need of something more was R. 123, right to the South of Mt. Pye (or they could be placed in Mt. Pyre, but the Litwick family seems more fitting). Oh, Jellicent could also be found here in Route 122, surrounding Mt. Pyre.

I totally agree with you: no need for another person and better distribution using other means!

Your list was the last so I've already make some suggestions that use some areas you've mentioned like Route 122 and 123 and which Pokémon should be found there.
Larvesta/Volcarona in Scorched Slab then yes, because I really wasn't seeing where you'd put those and I didn't remember of it. I do agree with Togepi. Despite fitting the Route, I just hate Darumaka. Gible...perhaps in the Battle Frontier's cave, along with Smeargle? I'm very fine with Dudriggon in Victory Road and Sky Pillar. Eelektrik in Seafloor Cavern...I just can't see it...Water Pokémon would be better in my opinion or even some Fossil Pokémon, perhaps Lilleep and Anorith could be found here or Archen and Tirtouga...perhaps Carbink!?

Btw, we need Qwilfish somewhere and Alomomola in Ever Grande!! (Stunfisk shouldn't appear because there's Barboach and they're somewhat alike). On second thought, Stunfisk could be available around New Mauville and Eelektrik appearing only once a week deep inside New Mauville!

PS: too bad these are only remakes because the Plasma Frigate would be nice for Aqua!

 

[Bolt the Cat]

As Shellos/Gastrodon is one of my favourite Pokémon of all time, I would certainly love to see it in the new Hoenn Pokédex. If they want to keep the East/West theme, they gave have the West Sea found found towards the west side of the map (by where Mr. Briney boats you through in the early game), and the East Sea available in the east by the town with the mall and where you first start entering the long surfing/diving routes. Can't remember the names well, but there's definitely some distinct west/east action that can be used for that.

The city you're thinking of is called Lilycove City.

Eh, the problem is I don't really see Shellos/Gastrodon fitting a sea route very well, it seems like more of a beach/swamp Pokemon. Maybe if there were some kind of grass patch somewhere in that section (besides Mirage Island, which is too stupidly rare to be a viable choice) it'd be easier to place it. So maybe they'll have to add some kind of new island there or a grass patch on one of the existing sea routes.

Both Archen and Tirtouga could be obtainable after the story with Magma/Aqua and the submarine...or even before, namely the second, as a new specimen to the Oceanic Museum but having also found Archen in the same island where they've found Tirtouga. For this, I would like to see an expanded Devon Corporation with some underground labs, instead of just that bussiness look.
I do agree with all the placements you made and the Water Pokémon.

IDK about that. Usually they just lump all of the other fossils together and distribute them in the same spot, I don't think they'd have a special event in the storyline for Archen/Tirtouga. The remaining fossils will probably just be obtainable somewhere like Desert Underpass (probably by Rock Smash, that seems to be the way to go for Fossils).

That's something I could never understand: why have the monkeys always have to be together!? They're monkeys, so they don't fit that much in the forests of Isshu, but they do seem to fit Hoenn and Dewford has some trees, so a grass patch near those would be nice, and the route to Fallarbor also has trees and it's affected by Mt. Chimney. I can see them in Hoenn, but also in the Safari.

It's because they're basically pseudo starters, you get them early in the game to complement your starter choice (like how in BW1, you're automatically given the one that's weak to your starter to cover its weakness). The fact that their HAs are the traditional starter abilities pretty much seals the deal on this. But why forests? IDK, it seems like a weird environment for them, but I guess it was the most fitting early environment for them. At any rate, I'm pretty much sick of seeing them at this point, and you already have them (as well as their HAs) in XY, so there's no need to bring them back.

My only problem with Dewgong is its similarity (speaking of species) to Sealeo but it's still better than having Beartic in Hoenn...unless they have a frozen glaciar to the north of Shoal Cave or even a deeper section for the cave, namely to give the impression that Mamoswine (I prefer this one to Piloswine) ended up caught in there for thousands of years.

What exactly is wrong with Beartic in Hoenn? What kinds of Ice types would you prefer show up, besides Lapras and Vanillite?

Gible...perhaps in the Battle Frontier's cave, along with Smeargle?

Well Gible is usually found in drier environments, like how in XY it was in Rt. 13, which was also a desert area. If not there, I think the only other place I could see it would be the first or second floor of Victory Road. It could be in Desert Underpass as well, but only having it available there would defeat the purpose, since we're trying to add more Dragons into the Hoenn Dex. Same with Artisan Cave (and frankly, I think the cave is better for Pokemon that better suit the "artsy" side of the cave, stuff like Loudred, Mr. Mime, and maybe Riolu.

Eelektrik in Seafloor Cavern...I just can't see it...Water Pokémon would be better in my opinion or even some Fossil Pokémon, perhaps Lilleep and Anorith could be found here or Archen and Tirtouga...perhaps Carbink!?

Well, I suppose underwater could be a possibility as well, but if you look back at 5th gen, you'll notice that the Tynamo line is usually found in caves oddly. In particular, you found Tynamo in Chargestone Cave (an electric themed cave) and Eelektrik in Seaside Cave (an ocean themed cave). Seafloor Cavern is similar to the latter, so that's why I think it would be a good environment for Eelektrik. I suppose New Mauville could work, but considering it's not as cave like, I don't think it'd be very fitting.

As far as what else could be put in Seafloor Cavern, it's got to be something that could fit a watery environment. So stuff like Golduck, Seel, Shuckle, Crustle, etc.

Carbink seems better suited to a jewel themed area, so maybe some of the places where you typically find stuff like Mawile/Sableye like Granite Cave, Cave of Origin, or Victory Road. Cave of Origin in particular could use something unique, so maybe there.

 

[Chespin777]

It's impossible to include Pokemons from a modern, or successor generation, into predecessor generation regional dex. That would mess things up, and they could have done that in Gen 2 remakes. I know in gen 2 remakes they included few Pokemons in the Johto dex, that is because pokemons evolved through level up, to evolve into their new evolutions. Your player was the only trainer that could use these evolutions in the remakes, and none of the trainers you battled used the evolutions of the modern generation. So, your only hope for pre-evolutions, and modern evolutions to exist is post-game.

 

[Mitja]

They'll probably be less silly about the whole keeping newer stuff out with these games, as they'll do these games in a more fresh manner to at least some degree (I mean the covers alone say as much already), so first of all no reason not to include these:
-Gallade
-Probopass
-Magnezone
-Budew
-Roserade
-Dusknoir
-Chingling
-Rhyperior
-Froslass
-Regigigas
---210(212)

Now that's still a quite low number, but from here on its not even speculation, its just how I would personally expand Hoenns repertoire:

-Shellos (I was thinking west=route 115, east=route 110)

-Hoppip (route 117)

-Finneon (mainland fishing)

-Gligar (desert)

-Frillish (abandoned ship)

-Litwick (mt pyre)

-Clefairy (meteor falls)
-Elgyem (meteor falls)
(meteor falls needs a kind of mountain-top added)

-Mantine (sea)
-Alomomola (sea)

-Seel (Shoal-cave)
-Cubchoo (shoal cave)
-Sneasel (shoal cave)


IMO the safari needs to remain a proper safari-zone. the firend-safari can be put some other place or replaced with a different place with similar function.
And the safari-zone is where I feel the most comfortable about adding Pokemon into the Hoenndex.
I'd keep the 2-sided structure (each accessible with one bike) and add pseudo-counterparts in them:
-Teddiursa (Phanpy is in already)
-Stantler (Girafarig is in already)
-Mankey & Snubbull (adding a generic Fairy and Fighting line)
-Ponyta & Blitzle (adding generic elemental lines)
-Nidorans
-Hoothoot

-Hippopotas (safari)

It's impossible to include Pokemons from a modern, or successor generation, into predecessor generation regional dex. That would mess things up, and they could have done that in Gen 2 remakes. I know in gen 2 remakes they included few Pokemons in the Johto dex, that is because pokemons evolved through level up, to evolve into their new evolutions. Your player was the only trainer that could use these evolutions in the remakes, and none of the trainers you battled used the evolutions of the modern generation. So, your only hope for pre-evolutions, and modern evolutions to exist is post-game.

Well if they do the obvious, like making Magneton and Nosepass evolve in New Mauville (seriously how wouldn't they lol), then those two are given just as much as Lickilicky was in HGSS.

But IMO they won't be that strict this time anymore, because ORAS clearly has something new going on instead of supposed to be the same games as the original merely updated for the current gen.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

It's impossible to include Pokemons from a modern, or successor generation, into predecessor generation regional dex. That would mess things up, and they could have done that in Gen 2 remakes. I know in gen 2 remakes they included few Pokemons in the Johto dex, that is because pokemons evolved through level up, to evolve into their new evolutions. Your player was the only trainer that could use these evolutions in the remakes, and none of the trainers you battled used the evolutions of the modern generation. So, your only hope for pre-evolutions, and modern evolutions to exist is post-game.

Mess things up? I'm pretty sure they don't care. Look at what they did in Platinum, adding in the remaining cross gen evolutions and Giratina put the Sinnoh Dex at 202, and you know what they did? They added 8 random Pokemon to round it out to 210 (Houndour line, Swablu line, Scyther line, Tropius, and Absol). They can do the same thing here, they can fill in the blanks with random Pokemon. Although in this case, they don't really need to, because if they add Regigigas in, the Hoenn Dex will be at 210. But considering that the original Hoenn Dex is still imbalanced and lacks variety, I see no reason why they can't add in random Pokemon.

 

[Meaty]

Personally I don't think that they'd really add in random new pokemon but I am hopeful for at least some evolutions and I think Shellos and Gastrodon might be an exception because of the aforementioned reasons. Oh but you know what, with some of the wording pokemon's been using like "a brand new world," I wouldn't be surprised if Hoenn changes more dramatically than we think.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Personally I don't think that they'd really add in random new pokemon but I am hopeful for at least some evolutions and I think Shellos and Gastrodon might be an exception because of the aforementioned reasons.

That would give us 212, and they usually end the Dex on a multiple of 5 (not counting events). So they'd probably have at least one other new family.

 

[Meaty]

I'm not trying to fabricate an exact pokedex number here I'm just mentioning possible ideas.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I'm not trying to fabricate an exact pokedex number here I'm just mentioning possible ideas.

Well you said you didn't think there would be any new families except Shellos. That kind of limits your options. If you include all of the ones you mentioned, it would put it at a random number, and if you only include some of the cross gen evolutions, it would be somewhat arbitrary and unfair.

 

[woohoo962]

Changes
Gligar- Route 112
Petilil(OR)/Cottonee(AS)-Route 119
Darumaka-Fiery Path
Basculin-Abandoned Ship

Pokemon that should be found in the sky pillar entrance
Rhyhorn
Phanpy
Donphan
Nosepass
Boldore
Golbat

Sky Pillar pillar floor 1-4
Shuppet
Banette
Duskull
Drifloon
Golett
Golurk(rare)
Floor 5
Dratini
Dragonair
Shelgon
Deino
Noibat
Noivern(rare)
Floor 6(Rayquaza's Area)
Rayquaza(one)
Noibat
Noivern
Claydol
Bronzor

---

Victory Road pokemon
Golett
Golurk
Graveler
Golbat
Sliggoo
Axew- OR Rare AS Common
Deino-OR Common AS Rare
Fraxure(AS Only)
Zweilous(OR Only)

 

[Blob55]

Well, the HGSS remake only added some new evolutions and that's it. Also, can't help but wonder if they get rid of Night and Day feature again.