Communism

[DawnOfXatu]

RE: Communism in China

All a government needs is legitimacy in order to function, and at the moment the communist rule in China is completely legitimate, in that people accept the communist rule. If the people accept it then what is the problem? You people are treating China like one of the worst places, as they tell you what to do and force you to only have one child. Well in China you are allowed to have different jobs if you are good at something. Being given a steady job by the government to do what you are good at isn't a terrible idea. As far as the only one child thing goes, you are allowed to have another child, you are just given a fine. That works pretty much like a DUI, but with children...

I have no problem with communism, it just doesn't work. Just because something doesn't work doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea, and anybody who is so hardheaded that they believe that communism is evil shouldn't be talking here.

China has a decent economy, and they are slowly modernizing but not westernizing. Right now the communist party may be a bit too powerful, but once the modern ideals make their way into China it will only be a matter of time before the people push for a more democratic government.

 

[Juliacoolo]

RE: Communism in China

It really all depepnds on the nation. Smaller, and less advanced nations may benifit from it. As for China, and other Super Powers, I say no.

 

[StarlightSearcher]

RE: Communism in China

What haven't we learned for the Soviet Union? Communism is evil. Of course, their system of Communism was more extreme than the Chinese's, but still.

Why would people want decisions made for them?

 

[Medaforcer]

RE: Communism in China

What haven't we learned for the Soviet Union? Communism is evil.

No... we learned how difficult it is to make work.

Honestly everyone living equally is such a wonderful idea, but is nigh impossible.

 

[DarthPika]

RE: Communism in China

That's because no matter what, you will always have people who are going to be selfish. It just doesn't work. Everyone living equally? Really?

Ok, lets all bring down our standard of living so everyone can be equal. While were at it, lets all split all our money so everyone has the same amount. But wait, you can't have more money than the next guy, so to heck with money. There is nothing to gain and everything to lose. Who in their right mind would want equality?

I guess we should also make the smart people dumber, the tall people shorter, the fat people thinner, the good looking people ugly, etc... JUST so we can all be equal. Sorry, it's not going to happen.

 

[kawaii_Mew]

RE: Communism in China

Well I know enough to join this discussion, but my knowledge of it is nothing compared to that of people like Heavenly Spoon (although it seems he knows everthing! :0).

The basic premise of life doesn't include producing what you can and take what you need, it's about surviving. And you don't need to produce to survive... :/

And btw, I join, I post what I know, people correct me and so I'll learn about it, and with that knowledge I can post my next post with more knowledge of the subject.

Then please don't pretend you know everything when you post something. A very smart person would know that he's only stupid when he stops asking questions and pretends he knows everything. Even Heavenly Spoon :F knows that.

Heavenly Spoon :F- Thanks for explaining, I'm not actually the master in understanding economics, but I am learning more and more.

Galefail: Yeah, poor children...you know...there is also child labor here in Malaysia. Sigh....

 

[Pokequaza]

RE: Communism in China

What haven't we learned for the Soviet Union? Communism is evil.

No... we learned how difficult it is to make work.

Honestly everyone living equally is such a wonderful idea, but is nigh impossible.

If we weren't that selfish I think I could have worked too, but nah this system is wonderful, but nothing for the human.

Then please don't pretend you know everything when you post something. A very smart person would know that he's only stupid when he stops asking questions and pretends he knows everything. Even Heavenly Spoon :F knows that.

I didn't pretend I know everything (which is impossible too), I even said I didn't know all about this. I don't mean I know nothing but less I know about other subjects. And that's all based on your opinion, I ask a lot of questions, but sometimes I just throw something in. Well sadly some behave rude then but others are nice to correct me, and that way I learn the fastest.

You do in order to take what you need. If you don't take what you need, you wont have what you need, and you will die. You can't take what you need unless you produce it.

The world is not a limitless storage supply, that is why people have to farm and grow food (which is producing), so they can take what they need to survive.

Hmm yes ok, I've to agree with you. But again it's not equal in this world, some people only take without producing much and some work very hard and get almost nothing in return.

 

[Lieutenant Houndoom]

RE: Communism in China

c-m is a one-man debate machine.

I can't really add more that Spoonboy hasn't written an esay about but the problem with communism isn't the system itself. It's the people who have to step up to the plate and run it. Power corrupts. You lead a nation, you have a temptation to take from it, especially if you don't technically have any more than the next guy. The concept of communism is one of the best concepts I've seen; human nature refuses to contort to it, unfortunately. The only way communism can succeed is if a band of people with each their own moral compass strong enough to reject the lust for power come together to form a communist society. If you force anyone to be communist and give to others unconditionally, it'll never work.

 

[Pokequaza]

RE: Communism in China

Which is the opposite of what Communism is about. You basically described capitalism. Getting more for working less, I.e. being a high ranking corporate boss, sitting in a chair all day, and getting paid. I am not saying all corporate head honcho's are like this, but it is not a rare thing either.

Who do you think works harder, the person who owns the McDonalds, or the people hired to make the food and take the orders?
That is how capitalism works, which is what is used to describe the United States. Communism is the opposite of what you just described, so by the way you're talking, it sounds like you actually DO like Communism, you just had a warped view on what you THOUGHT Communism is.

Well yeah I do like Communism in that way, the more you work the more you get, that's fair. There some bad points about Communism, and I don't think it would ever work in the world we now live in :/

 

[Noobnerd]

RE: Communism in China

Brainwashed Westerners in this thread.

iknorite

Look at Obama's healthcare plans and how people react to it. What? Obama's got death panels? Government control! :O! Socialist! no u!

Mao and Stalin (and now Kim Jong Il) made communism look real bad, and America's way too prejudiced against anything related to communism. Then again, it's not going to work, because the only way to do so is to make everyone work for a certain greater good, which in turn is impossible as "good" is subjective... Vicious cycle. Still, government regulations are necessary, as laissez faire capitalism has the potential to screw up the global economy again.

3rd way centrist is still the best way.

 

[Heavenly Spoon]

RE: Communism in China

Look at Obama's healthcare plans and how people react to it. What? Obama's got death panels? Government control! :O! Socialist! no u!.

It's always weird to see those Obama posters with "socialist", especially since it seems like such a good thing to me. A bit of socialism wouldn't hurt the US at all, au contraire. I currently live in a country with pretty advanced national healthcare, and I still think it could be better. There's this huge fear of government-regulated generosity, it's like people want to be controlled by the rich, want the unemployed, sick and poor to suffer. Even in Europe they're trying to undermine a lot of the pretty good socialist rules, it's sickening. People are always ready to point at the flaws of the socialism (in whatever way, shape or form), but seem to be oblivious to the even more obvious flaws of the free market system, the same system which is responsible for the current financial crisis.

What haven't we learned for the Soviet Union? Communism is evil.

You're funny. Have you read anything in this thread?
Lenin, whist not being completely just, had some pretty neat ideas for the Soviet Union, and it probably wouldn't have turned out half-bad. But his early death, and Stalin claiming the throne (again, it wasn't a democratic communist regime) truly hurt. If the Soviet Union taught us one thing, it's that dictatorships only work when you don't have a genocidal maniac as leader, yet that's what a dictatorship tends to turn the more feeble of mind into (Stalin, to me, didn't seem like the most intelligent dude around). But I think Nazi Germany taught us pretty much the same lesson (although fascism, to me, is gallons worse than communism. And yet Stalin was the worst of the 2 (But then again, he did have more time)).

I think it's important to remember that there's no true order in economics, and whilst some systems may be self-regulating, it doesn't mean it's the best for everyone. There's no perfect economic system, it's always about finding balance on constantly changing scale. And communism is no less evil than capitalism, if the cold war would've ended in favour of the SU, you'd all probably be defending communism.

 

[~Magma King~]

RE: Communism in China

I'd say something here but Heavenly Spoon generally backs my opinions perfectly. America seems to be paranoid about it.

 

[Medaforcer]

RE: Communism in China

I'd say something here but Heavenly Spoon generally backs my opinions perfectly. America seems to be paranoid about it.

The might of American education at work!

 

[hatedisc]

RE: Communism in China

Communism is bad. I live in a corporatist state where all companies work together in government for good of every body. I am happy.

 

[Lieutenant Houndoom]

RE: Communism in China

What, you have 0% unemployment, free health care, all nonprofit corporations and abolished poverty? If there isn't, then it's not the good of everybody. It's the good for those who seem to be able to support themselves- with money. It's all about money. For communism, money is less of value because it's just something as a placeholder for the real goods that they would need.

 

[kawaii_Mew]

RE: Communism in China

I guess since some people are talking about Lenin and other communist countries, I'll change the title to "Communism" instead. Btw, no matter the good points of communism, I still think that people should have the liberty to make decisions for themselves. Good or bad, it's the person's choice...not the leader of the country/state.

A good example is Hitler. He took communism and showed the dark, evil, and ugly side of it. He put people to prison just because they were crippled. Well...at least China is not as bad as to what he did before...but still...I believe in individual rights.

 

[Noobnerd]

Hitler was communist?! No, he was a fascist. While communist states may be totalitarian, it does not mean that all totalitarian states are communist.

 

[kawaii_Mew]

Hitler was communist?! No, he was a fascist. While communist states may be totalitarian, it does not mean that all totalitarian states are communist.

Oh I see, sorry for making the mistake. I should learn more about history, but I am learning more. Lol.

 

[capt.penguin]

RE: Communism in China

iknorite

Look at Obama's healthcare plans and how people react to it. What? Obama's got death panels? Government control! :O! Socialist! no u!

Mao and Stalin (and now Kim Jong Il) made communism look real bad, and America's way too prejudiced against anything related to communism. Then again, it's not going to work, because the only way to do so is to make everyone work for a certain greater good, which in turn is impossible as "good" is subjective... Vicious cycle. Still, government regulations are necessary, as laissez faire capitalism has the potential to screw up the global economy again.

3rd way centrist is still the best way.

I think there's a basic confusion about Communism given that we really haven't seen it practiced for any length of time.

One basic misconception is that Stalinism is communism. What Stalin came up with was a totalitarian dictatorship (or possibly an oligarchy, haven't decided yet). He just stole the name of Communism because it sounded better than dictatorship. Many of the world's dictatorships call themselves democracies because it just sounds better.

Secondly, people who favor communism really don't get the point that it only seems to work for long periods of time in small groupings of 100,000 or less. Once the population grows beyond that it generally converts into some form of market democracy or into an oligarchy.

Fortunately, you can have some of the benefits of communism as an add-on package to a democracy or democratic republic, in the form of Socialism. A mix of democracy and socialism helps iron out many of the people problems that occur when a market is allowed to be fairly uncontrolled. Socialism is the "caring about people" part of communism, to help deal with the side effects of having the "free market" opposite of communism.

 

[Medaforcer]

RE: Communism in China

A good example is Hitler. He took communism and showed the dark, evil, and ugly side of it. He put people to prison just because they were crippled. Well...at least China is not as bad as to what he did before...but still...I believe in individual rights.

Hitler hated communism and communists. He killed people for being communists. :S

And really even if he was that does not show the evil side of it. I don't know where communism says to put people in jail or kill them.