Competitive Battling Discussion Of The Week 23
- Thread starter PG24
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No, I find this metagame very overcentralizing.
I'll use Smogon's December stats as my support. These are the 1337 stats: stats that are only taken from ladderers that have a rating of 1337 or higher. So basically, all the excellent battlers.
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ---------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage | Percent |
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ----------- +
| 1 | Tyranitar | 7469 | 45.523% |
| 2 | Scizor | 6705 | 40.867% |
| 3 | Rotom-W | 6603 | 40.245% |
| 4 | Landorus | 5202 | 31.706% |
| 5 | Terrakion | 4802 | 29.268% |
| 6 | Dragonite | 4049 | 24.678% |
(table didn't turn out as pretty as I wanted, but I think it can still be read)
From laddering today, I can tell you that I've seen several teams that use just those 6 Pokemon (at any rating, not just at 1337+ rating). Landorus is on nearly 1/3rd of all teams, with Dragonite on 1/4th of them. That's not the worst though, because Tyranitar is on nearly 50% of them! Its not that Tyranitar is broken, its just really good. The Scizor-Rotom core still continues to dominate, and this shows that Sand is indeed the most dominant weather, with Politoed sitting at #10 and Ninetales at #34. Heck, Tyranitar is on nearly three times as many teams as Politoed. Finally, just going purely off the stats I posted: three Pokemon have more than 40% usage, which I find crazy.
Link to 1337 stats
I'll use Smogon's December stats as my support. These are the 1337 stats: stats that are only taken from ladderers that have a rating of 1337 or higher. So basically, all the excellent battlers.
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ---------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage | Percent |
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ----------- +
| 1 | Tyranitar | 7469 | 45.523% |
| 2 | Scizor | 6705 | 40.867% |
| 3 | Rotom-W | 6603 | 40.245% |
| 4 | Landorus | 5202 | 31.706% |
| 5 | Terrakion | 4802 | 29.268% |
| 6 | Dragonite | 4049 | 24.678% |
(table didn't turn out as pretty as I wanted, but I think it can still be read)
From laddering today, I can tell you that I've seen several teams that use just those 6 Pokemon (at any rating, not just at 1337+ rating). Landorus is on nearly 1/3rd of all teams, with Dragonite on 1/4th of them. That's not the worst though, because Tyranitar is on nearly 50% of them! Its not that Tyranitar is broken, its just really good. The Scizor-Rotom core still continues to dominate, and this shows that Sand is indeed the most dominant weather, with Politoed sitting at #10 and Ninetales at #34. Heck, Tyranitar is on nearly three times as many teams as Politoed. Finally, just going purely off the stats I posted: three Pokemon have more than 40% usage, which I find crazy.
Link to 1337 stats
Just as Peachy said, it's all Ttar and ScizTom. You're lucky to go three games without seeing at least one. Most of the time if you see a Ttar one match, you end up facing the other two in the next, and then there are times where you see all three. The best counter to these things is Gastrodon, and you've seen how fast it shot up in rank. NU to OU in what, 2-3 months? I'm surprised it doesn't see MORE use. The metagame is definitely revolving around these three, no matter how you look at it. I do not believe things will go uber though, unless these people just keep spamming their sand and ScizTom to the point where we are forced to ban them.
To answer your question: Yes, I believe the metagame is overcentralized.
In my opinion, weather should just be down right banned. Not because it is too powerful (although it certainly isn't underpowered, either), but because weather makes it impossible to have a varied OU metagame.
Nowadays, you either choose a weather, or you use a weatherless team that can deal with weather teams.
Banning weather means opportunity for a completely new metagame. Many "fair weather" Pokemon, or Pokemon that are only used as much as they are because of weather, would plummet in usage. I think that would be great thing to happen, but I am not sure if it ever will.
Which brings up an idea for the Create A Pokemon activity: a Pokemon that can cancel weather that isn't terrible (or Rayquaza).
In my opinion, weather should just be down right banned. Not because it is too powerful (although it certainly isn't underpowered, either), but because weather makes it impossible to have a varied OU metagame.
Nowadays, you either choose a weather, or you use a weatherless team that can deal with weather teams.
Banning weather means opportunity for a completely new metagame. Many "fair weather" Pokemon, or Pokemon that are only used as much as they are because of weather, would plummet in usage. I think that would be great thing to happen, but I am not sure if it ever will.
Which brings up an idea for the Create A Pokemon activity: a Pokemon that can cancel weather that isn't terrible (or Rayquaza).
/me tells Peachy to use table tags. I have how to use them in the MyCode section of the Rules & Info thread.
I'm honestly surprised Dragonite doesn't have more usage than it has currently. It seems like I face a lot of them. Hail and Sand are the only thing Dragonite doesn't have the ability to benefit from. Fire Blast could be run as an option on a DD set to help against Ferrothorn because it still has solid Special Attack, though not quite as high as Salamence. Weather really does seem to make the metagame a lot less diverse; maybe that's part of why I like Ubers more.
I'm honestly surprised Dragonite doesn't have more usage than it has currently. It seems like I face a lot of them. Hail and Sand are the only thing Dragonite doesn't have the ability to benefit from. Fire Blast could be run as an option on a DD set to help against Ferrothorn because it still has solid Special Attack, though not quite as high as Salamence. Weather really does seem to make the metagame a lot less diverse; maybe that's part of why I like Ubers more.
I'm in the "over centralized/weather should be banned" group.
There's just waaaay too much of it out there. And if you can't play with it or against it you're pretty much lost. Sun isn't all together too bad because it doesn't do too much to disrupt non-weather teams but it sure can be annoying when you get a Venusaur with Solar Beam or a DW Leafeon out there. Hail is actually one of the worst in my opinion because only Ice types aren't effected by the damage it does. And plus, Abomasnow + Blizzard = death. (Well, maybe not against a fire or steel type, but that's what HP fire and Earthquake are for)
And rain is just broken, broken, BROKEN! Drizzle Politoed + Swift Swim Kingdra...yeah it's not fun to be on the receiving end of that. But the sites I generally do competitive battling on usually have Drizzle banned or Drizzle and Swift Swim on the same team banned.
I have to say Sand isn't quite as bad as it once was though considering some nice new types we have out there. Plus Sun is just way overused. I mean, sand with Excadrill is ok but Excadrill got banned in most places I believe and so Sand really has nowhere to go as Garchomp also got banned (again). Of course we still have T-tar but finding things that don't die in the Sand..that's just my take on it anyways.
This is generally why I like to play with Clear Skies.
Furthermore, I just think the whole metagame got messed up. I mean, for example, Gastrodon, 4th gen NU 5th gen OU wth?? And Mew, 4th gen Uber 5th gen UU. And there are others, like Zapdos, Alakazam, Venusaur, Toxicroak the list goes on.
I'm also surprised at the lack of OUs this generation. One would think that with 600 and somewhat pokemon there would be more than just 50 something in the OU tier
Man I miss 4G
There's just waaaay too much of it out there. And if you can't play with it or against it you're pretty much lost. Sun isn't all together too bad because it doesn't do too much to disrupt non-weather teams but it sure can be annoying when you get a Venusaur with Solar Beam or a DW Leafeon out there. Hail is actually one of the worst in my opinion because only Ice types aren't effected by the damage it does. And plus, Abomasnow + Blizzard = death. (Well, maybe not against a fire or steel type, but that's what HP fire and Earthquake are for)
And rain is just broken, broken, BROKEN! Drizzle Politoed + Swift Swim Kingdra...yeah it's not fun to be on the receiving end of that. But the sites I generally do competitive battling on usually have Drizzle banned or Drizzle and Swift Swim on the same team banned.
I have to say Sand isn't quite as bad as it once was though considering some nice new types we have out there. Plus Sun is just way overused. I mean, sand with Excadrill is ok but Excadrill got banned in most places I believe and so Sand really has nowhere to go as Garchomp also got banned (again). Of course we still have T-tar but finding things that don't die in the Sand..that's just my take on it anyways.
This is generally why I like to play with Clear Skies.
Furthermore, I just think the whole metagame got messed up. I mean, for example, Gastrodon, 4th gen NU 5th gen OU wth?? And Mew, 4th gen Uber 5th gen UU. And there are others, like Zapdos, Alakazam, Venusaur, Toxicroak the list goes on.
I'm also surprised at the lack of OUs this generation. One would think that with 600 and somewhat pokemon there would be more than just 50 something in the OU tier
Man I miss 4G
I have to agree, this game is over centralized. I've never been so bored of competitive VG in my life, and its because every game is exactly the same. I also feel like the level of prediction has fallen considerably; with weather packing so much raw power its hard to run original Pokemon in this meta and not get blown away. There's almost nothing viable outside of the OU tier, which is actually smaller than it has been in previous generations. I believe that a weather ban would remove all of this, and make the game much more fun and creative.
The word overcentralized is thrown around too much. Centralized metagames are a good thing because there is a limited amount of diversity. This makes it so that teams can cover more of the common threats and make games less about matchup. This allows games to be decided based more on a player's skill, which is what the competitive community strives for. I don't think there is any overcentralization right now. There are various different team styles that are currently popular, which would hint at the opposite.
To give an example of overcentralization, look back at the Garchomp era of BW OU. Garchomp was on almost every team and at its peak, it was being thrown on every form of weather to be able to abuse the opposition's sand. In addition to that, the combination of Gliscor and Bronzong or something similar were on every form of weather, with the exception of sun. There is nothing close to that right now.
I think that weatherless teams can be just as effective, if not more effective, in the current metagame. A lot of times the weather starter is just an extra piece of the team. In weatherless teams, you can take full advantage of all 6 Pokemon slots to make a coherent strategy. This gives you an advantage against most weather teams unless you don't have something to beat every form of weather.
To give an example of overcentralization, look back at the Garchomp era of BW OU. Garchomp was on almost every team and at its peak, it was being thrown on every form of weather to be able to abuse the opposition's sand. In addition to that, the combination of Gliscor and Bronzong or something similar were on every form of weather, with the exception of sun. There is nothing close to that right now.
I think that weatherless teams can be just as effective, if not more effective, in the current metagame. A lot of times the weather starter is just an extra piece of the team. In weatherless teams, you can take full advantage of all 6 Pokemon slots to make a coherent strategy. This gives you an advantage against most weather teams unless you don't have something to beat every form of weather.
Not sure if you are talking about VGC or just general online battling, but in VGC it's crazy. Every team has Cresselia, Latios, weather maker (mostly T-tar and P-toed), or a combination of those. I am so sick of the Metagame. If you try to make a decent team without using it, good luck my fellow roguester. I see way too much of nothing but the same things over and over.
EDIT: Oh yeah, why did they make so many good weather makers and so few weather-stoppers at all, not to mention they are mostly worthless.
EDIT: Oh yeah, why did they make so many good weather makers and so few weather-stoppers at all, not to mention they are mostly worthless.
They are refering to OU, not VGC. If you are so sick of VGC's metagame but need to play in it, I suggest finding a way to beat the threats, instead of just using them. Toxicroak is actually pretty viable for VGC. It gets Sucker Punch to help against Latios, Cross Chop for TTar and has Dry Skin which will make water moves heal it. Ferrothorn also can do wonders against Cresselia and Latios if it doesn't carry HP Fire.