Competitive Battling Discussion Of The Week 9
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RE: Post: #1 | Competitive Battling Discussion Of The Week 9
I personally think people unestimate the power of Durant. With a good Base 109 Attack and Speed and then a 112 Defense Base stat. He can either abuse Horn Claws and sometimes rip through upprepared teams and also he can be a decent supporter if you use him right with Thunder Wave. He does however has weak Sp.D and HP which also matter in a pokemon thats suppose to be support. Durant has a decent movepool however can also just lay out and die just depends on 2 things. Who he is against, and when you use him and is it the right time too? The two things I listed can be fatal to Durant if you ignore them. If you have +6 Horn Claws Durant v Heatran well I think I have enough power to overun it. NO you don't he reists most attacks Durants carry anway maybe it could do half so what is it really worth sacking your durant to it? And you have to know when to use him you got to know the right time because if your opponent has Scizor, Heatran, Tyranitar left why would you bring in Durant your odds are slim to killing Tyranitar because Heatran completely walls Durant so that is a awful time to through him in their. Now let's say your opponent has Scizor, Tyranitar, Slowbro then yes a pretty darn good time to send him in because he can kill Slowbro and Tyranitar with only 1-2 Horn Claws then Scizor should be a huge problem. Well now I have talked about Durant enough here's the set I have been meaning to give you guys:
Durant @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Hustle - Jolly/Adamant
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Horn Claws
- Thunder Wave / Thunder Fang/ Stone Edge
- Bug Bite/ X-Scissor
- Iron Head
Now back to where I was with +6 Horn Claws against Heatran well you could use Thunder Fang if you carry it I haven't bothered to do damage caculations on this though and will let you guys know about how much it would do if it OHKO's or not. My guess is it wouldn't with no STAB and not great base power. I wouldn't suggest building a team around this little guy though because his stats aren't superior and just can't take a special hit. This is my oponion on Durant you can comment and correct on this. I am very willing to learn and am open to learning also. So if you post and talk about what I said wrong then I will listen.
- R-C
I personally think people unestimate the power of Durant. With a good Base 109 Attack and Speed and then a 112 Defense Base stat. He can either abuse Horn Claws and sometimes rip through upprepared teams and also he can be a decent supporter if you use him right with Thunder Wave. He does however has weak Sp.D and HP which also matter in a pokemon thats suppose to be support. Durant has a decent movepool however can also just lay out and die just depends on 2 things. Who he is against, and when you use him and is it the right time too? The two things I listed can be fatal to Durant if you ignore them. If you have +6 Horn Claws Durant v Heatran well I think I have enough power to overun it. NO you don't he reists most attacks Durants carry anway maybe it could do half so what is it really worth sacking your durant to it? And you have to know when to use him you got to know the right time because if your opponent has Scizor, Heatran, Tyranitar left why would you bring in Durant your odds are slim to killing Tyranitar because Heatran completely walls Durant so that is a awful time to through him in their. Now let's say your opponent has Scizor, Tyranitar, Slowbro then yes a pretty darn good time to send him in because he can kill Slowbro and Tyranitar with only 1-2 Horn Claws then Scizor should be a huge problem. Well now I have talked about Durant enough here's the set I have been meaning to give you guys:
Durant @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Hustle - Jolly/Adamant
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Horn Claws
- Thunder Wave / Thunder Fang/ Stone Edge
- Bug Bite/ X-Scissor
- Iron Head
Now back to where I was with +6 Horn Claws against Heatran well you could use Thunder Fang if you carry it I haven't bothered to do damage caculations on this though and will let you guys know about how much it would do if it OHKO's or not. My guess is it wouldn't with no STAB and not great base power. I wouldn't suggest building a team around this little guy though because his stats aren't superior and just can't take a special hit. This is my oponion on Durant you can comment and correct on this. I am very willing to learn and am open to learning also. So if you post and talk about what I said wrong then I will listen.
- R-C
RE: Post: #1 | Competitive Battling Discussion Of The Week 9
Celebi. I have no idea why it's UU, it's typing has always been bad, and it's not particularly worse this generation. It can run a ton of different sets, sorta like Mew, so it's totally unpredictable, as it can run a support set, a mixed offensive/support set, or an all out sweeping set. I've been running Tinkerbell Celebi on my most recent team, and it's so great. Once you use Thunder Wave people assume you're support, but then you show your Life Orb Leaf Storm.
Celebi
Modest @ Life Orb
232 HP/240 SpA/36 Spe
-Thunder Wave
-Recover
-Leaf storm
-HP Fire/Psychic/Earth Power
I use Hidden Power Fire to hit the omnipresent Ferrothorn.
Shouldn't be using... eh. I dunno. I think most things that are common in today's metagame are used because they're good.
Celebi. I have no idea why it's UU, it's typing has always been bad, and it's not particularly worse this generation. It can run a ton of different sets, sorta like Mew, so it's totally unpredictable, as it can run a support set, a mixed offensive/support set, or an all out sweeping set. I've been running Tinkerbell Celebi on my most recent team, and it's so great. Once you use Thunder Wave people assume you're support, but then you show your Life Orb Leaf Storm.
Celebi
Modest @ Life Orb
232 HP/240 SpA/36 Spe
-Thunder Wave
-Recover
-Leaf storm
-HP Fire/Psychic/Earth Power
I use Hidden Power Fire to hit the omnipresent Ferrothorn.
Shouldn't be using... eh. I dunno. I think most things that are common in today's metagame are used because they're good.
RE: Post: #1 | Competitive Battling Discussion Of The Week 9
The moves you have are not what I would use. Unless you're looking to get the berry advantage off your opponent, I'd go for a higher base move such as X-Scissor instead of Bug Bite. I would also highly suggest Stone Edge. It provides great coverage against fire/flying Pokemon that Thunder Fang does not support. I'm talking about the flying dragons such as Dragonite and Salamence. You could keep Thunder Fang or Iron Head, depending on what your team needs really.
With Hone Claws and a Stone Edge, it actually has some good coverage for it's big counters. I did some calcs just now, and a +2 Stone Edge OHKO's all non-defensive Heatran, and both Swords Dance and CB Scizor (With a life orb). I agree Durant could be good, but setting up 2 Hone Claws is not going to be easy. You're going to get a counter up in your face quick, whether it's a Choice Scarfed Pokemon to outspeed and kill you or Heatran or another Pokemon that resists you.
If you base your team around Durant and get it's counters covered and spread some statuses (such as T-Wave to allow it to outspeed things), then yes Durant can work well.
Rotom-Cut said:
The moves you have are not what I would use. Unless you're looking to get the berry advantage off your opponent, I'd go for a higher base move such as X-Scissor instead of Bug Bite. I would also highly suggest Stone Edge. It provides great coverage against fire/flying Pokemon that Thunder Fang does not support. I'm talking about the flying dragons such as Dragonite and Salamence. You could keep Thunder Fang or Iron Head, depending on what your team needs really.
With Hone Claws and a Stone Edge, it actually has some good coverage for it's big counters. I did some calcs just now, and a +2 Stone Edge OHKO's all non-defensive Heatran, and both Swords Dance and CB Scizor (With a life orb). I agree Durant could be good, but setting up 2 Hone Claws is not going to be easy. You're going to get a counter up in your face quick, whether it's a Choice Scarfed Pokemon to outspeed and kill you or Heatran or another Pokemon that resists you.
If you base your team around Durant and get it's counters covered and spread some statuses (such as T-Wave to allow it to outspeed things), then yes Durant can work well.
As 6-D mentioned earlier, Celebi needs to be used more. Straight up base 100's accross the board, with pretty good defensive typing allow him to function as a great defensive pokemon with access to moves like Substitute, Leech Seed, and Recover. He can spread paralysis, and sweep with Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, or Calm Mind. Giga Drain got a massive power boost, so it makes Celebi a very viable pokemon. Why he is UU is a mystery to me, but he is.
Another pokemon I'd like to see more of is Slowbro. Slowbro is UU just like Celebi, but he's got a great defensive typing, great defensive stats, access to Calm Mind, the ability to spread Toxic, Thunder Wave, and phaze with Yawn, and he's got a great movepool with Scald, Flamethrower, Psychic, Grass Knot, and Ice Beam just to list off a few options. For bonus points, he gets access to instant recovery in Slack Off, and regains 33% of his health every time he switches out due to regenerator.
Another pokemon I'd like to see more of is Slowbro. Slowbro is UU just like Celebi, but he's got a great defensive typing, great defensive stats, access to Calm Mind, the ability to spread Toxic, Thunder Wave, and phaze with Yawn, and he's got a great movepool with Scald, Flamethrower, Psychic, Grass Knot, and Ice Beam just to list off a few options. For bonus points, he gets access to instant recovery in Slack Off, and regains 33% of his health every time he switches out due to regenerator.
^ Slowbro can be such a troll especially with Regenerator. Mienshao is another great Regenerator user. Even though Mienshao is OU, he is on the lower end of the usage statistics and I think can be used more. Mienshao has some nice tools such as Hi Jump Kick for monstrous STAB, Fake Out for scouting and sash breaking as a lead, Taunt to stop set-ups, and U-turn to get out of dodge and heal up with Regenerator. Stone Edge and Hidden Power Ice can be used for coverage.
I was going to make that same point. Slowbro with Regenerator is crazy good. I would still recommend Slack Off on it, along with a status move, and then 2 attacking moves. I would prefer something like Scald and Ice Beam. His Defense is good, however his HP isn't something to die for. Thankfully he has enough recovery possibilities to keep him very usable.
Problem is, Slowbro doesn't do exceptionally well against Scizor CB U-Turn, which is an OHKO on 252 HP/252 DEF standard Slowbro. T-Tar can also 2HKO it, or 1HKO if it's running CB. These two threats to it are probably the reason people aren't using it much. I think from June's Usage Statistics, T-Tar was 2nd and Scizor was 3rd. Just because there are Pokemon that can beat it doesn't mean it isn't a good Pokemon, but I think most people would rather use a wall that would protect them from things like T-Tar and Scizor because they are some of the leading physical attackers in the metagame, although T-Tar can also effectively be a Special Defense wall. The reason Gliscor is so high up on the usage list is because he can handle lots of the big threats (and even Skarmory), whereas Slowbro doesn't as effectively deal with them.
Problem is, Slowbro doesn't do exceptionally well against Scizor CB U-Turn, which is an OHKO on 252 HP/252 DEF standard Slowbro. T-Tar can also 2HKO it, or 1HKO if it's running CB. These two threats to it are probably the reason people aren't using it much. I think from June's Usage Statistics, T-Tar was 2nd and Scizor was 3rd. Just because there are Pokemon that can beat it doesn't mean it isn't a good Pokemon, but I think most people would rather use a wall that would protect them from things like T-Tar and Scizor because they are some of the leading physical attackers in the metagame, although T-Tar can also effectively be a Special Defense wall. The reason Gliscor is so high up on the usage list is because he can handle lots of the big threats (and even Skarmory), whereas Slowbro doesn't as effectively deal with them.
Darmanitan needs to be used more. With a monstrous attack and a great ability his Flare Blitzes OHKO most things that don't resist it. It's speed isn't very good (losing to base 100s, which aren't even that fast this gen) but with a scarf he has real potential. If you use him right, it puts a lot of pressure on the opponent because he can 2-3HKO many water types or other Pokemon that resist Flare Blitz. He can also U-Turn to great use since he will probably create a lot of switches. The abundance of rain and sand hamper him severly, though.
I love the suggestions from everyone, Durant and Slowbro are two of the best Pokemon I've used this Generation. Gallade is a Pokemon I'd like to see some more use of, since it is quite the viable Sub + Bulk Up/SD abuser. It's got a great movepool (Shadow Sneak and Ice Punch work very well) and a lot of offensive potential. Now, a Pokemon I'd like to see less of (not based on opinion, but it's usability) is Volcarona. Now don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic Pokemon, abusing quite possibly the greatest boosting move in the game, Butterfly Dance. However, many players use it without thinking ahead, and since it requires a different style of play, they wind up wasting a Team slot. Stealth Rocks absolutely wreck it, along with status. It's sole purpose should be a late-game sweeper, not to be sent out after a Jirachi just used Stealth Rock to get a Flame Dance on it. It needs a lot of support, and I hardly ever see it on teams that use Volcarona. So I guess I'm not saying use it less, but use it right.
Yeah, agreed, Volcarona is a pretty great Pokemon, but many people, myself included, don't know how to use it effectively.
Also agreed on Gallade. A pretty good typing and that great base SpD make him a wondeful Bulk Up user, with our without Sub.
Also agreed on Gallade. A pretty good typing and that great base SpD make him a wondeful Bulk Up user, with our without Sub.
I'm a big VGC snob, so I'm going to go with Bisharp. It was the star of my VGC team, and it can (With Dark Gem) OHKO any scarfed ghost, Tornadus/Thundurus, Kill any Terrakion in Tailwind/Trick Room, and just be annoying. It should be used more than it is, and I hope to see one go far in worlds.
Dugtrio + autoweather. Dugtrio beats Tyranitar 1 v. 1 all the time, and allows Sun/Rain teams to easily control the weather from the start of the match. It's trapping ability combined with a Focus Sash lets it utilize this unique set.
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
252 Atk / 252 Spe (No other EVs necessary, like HP or Defense.)
Adamant / Jolly
-Reversal
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Stealth Rock
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
252 Atk / 252 Spe (No other EVs necessary, like HP or Defense.)
Adamant / Jolly
-Reversal
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Stealth Rock
Will somebody please tell me why nobody uses cryogonal? It may have SR weakness, but it has a great disruption move pool, one of the best abilities out there, and great sp def and speed stats.
Now I'm not very into compeditive battling, so please don't thrash me if I do badly...I don't post in compeditive threads like this often, but I'll try, because I have to try. So here's my Pokemon I think isn't as used as much as it should be:
Starmie
Now I've played extensively with PO against weather-based teams and other n00bish teams, and I have to say, I haven't seen one Rapid Spinner, probably because they decide Tyranitar and Virizion are too much for Starmie. I know Rapid Spin is decently popular, but out of 20 teams I face, only about 1 or 2 teams had a Rapid Spinner that wasn't Starmie. Guess who it was? Excadrill. I feel Excadrill's presence has replaced Starmie as the best Rapid Spinner. Starmie still has its ups, with access to Recover and two STABs like Excadrill. Excadrill has Rock Slide and Earthquake, Starmie has Hydro Pump/Surf and Ice Beam. Starmie can also abuse Thunderbolt to get rid of oppsoing Starmie and Suicune. So why isn't Starmie popular? I was thinking a moveset like this:
Starmie @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Bold Nature(-Atk.,+ Def.)
252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp.D
Hydro Pump/Surf
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin
Recover
Now I know this isn't the general Starmie set(Thunderbolt isn't here), but I thought a bulkier Starmie would go nicer than a sweeper. Starmie still gets its two STABs plus a Rapid Spinner for teams that rely on Stealth Rock, and Recover can be used if Starmie takes a bad hit. This is generally a hit 'n run Starmie, as it can take a hit and still be able to fight or let someone else in, but it could make a nice asset to a Rain team.
So I don't know how popular Starmie really is to you compeditive folks, but I'm new to this, so feel free to comment on my moveset, but I just don't want everyone saying that I'm awful at compeditive play(well....), so please go lightly on me, thanks! Hope I actually contributed something to this discussion.
Starmie
Now I've played extensively with PO against weather-based teams and other n00bish teams, and I have to say, I haven't seen one Rapid Spinner, probably because they decide Tyranitar and Virizion are too much for Starmie. I know Rapid Spin is decently popular, but out of 20 teams I face, only about 1 or 2 teams had a Rapid Spinner that wasn't Starmie. Guess who it was? Excadrill. I feel Excadrill's presence has replaced Starmie as the best Rapid Spinner. Starmie still has its ups, with access to Recover and two STABs like Excadrill. Excadrill has Rock Slide and Earthquake, Starmie has Hydro Pump/Surf and Ice Beam. Starmie can also abuse Thunderbolt to get rid of oppsoing Starmie and Suicune. So why isn't Starmie popular? I was thinking a moveset like this:
Starmie @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Bold Nature(-Atk.,+ Def.)
252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp.D
Hydro Pump/Surf
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin
Recover
Now I know this isn't the general Starmie set(Thunderbolt isn't here), but I thought a bulkier Starmie would go nicer than a sweeper. Starmie still gets its two STABs plus a Rapid Spinner for teams that rely on Stealth Rock, and Recover can be used if Starmie takes a bad hit. This is generally a hit 'n run Starmie, as it can take a hit and still be able to fight or let someone else in, but it could make a nice asset to a Rain team.
So I don't know how popular Starmie really is to you compeditive folks, but I'm new to this, so feel free to comment on my moveset, but I just don't want everyone saying that I'm awful at compeditive play(well....), so please go lightly on me, thanks! Hope I actually contributed something to this discussion.
Starmie is the 19th most used Pokemon, that's not rare. From what I've seen bulky Starmie really doesn't work well.
I really think Cofagrigus needs more use. He has a a great ability that can shut down many highly used Pokemon such as Conckeldurr.
I rather like the following set
Cofagrigus @Lefties
Mummy
252HP/252Def/4SPDef
-Calm Mind
-WOW
-Shadow Ball/Hex
-HP Fighting
I really think Cofagrigus needs more use. He has a a great ability that can shut down many highly used Pokemon such as Conckeldurr.
I rather like the following set
Cofagrigus @Lefties
Mummy
252HP/252Def/4SPDef
-Calm Mind
-WOW
-Shadow Ball/Hex
-HP Fighting
Oh, I have one that shouldn't be used.
Swampert.
I still see the merit sometimes, I mean, it has a good typing and can set up Rocks, but other than the Rocks thing, it's outclassed pretty heavily as a bulky Water/Ground by both Quagsire and Gastrodon. I just don't see how Swampert is OU and the other two are UU...
Swampert.
I still see the merit sometimes, I mean, it has a good typing and can set up Rocks, but other than the Rocks thing, it's outclassed pretty heavily as a bulky Water/Ground by both Quagsire and Gastrodon. I just don't see how Swampert is OU and the other two are UU...
Gastrodon
With Storm Drain, its a full stop to any Rain team. It will absorb their Surfs and Thunders, and hit back with Storm Drain boosted attacks. You can run Scald to burn, and cover up Gastrodon's weaker defensive stat. It works wonderfully in an anti-weather defensive core with Heatran and Skarmory. Gastrodon is immune to the Water attacks aimed at Heatran, and the Electric moves aimed at Skarmory, while the other two 4x resist Gastrodon's sole grass weakness.
With Storm Drain, its a full stop to any Rain team. It will absorb their Surfs and Thunders, and hit back with Storm Drain boosted attacks. You can run Scald to burn, and cover up Gastrodon's weaker defensive stat. It works wonderfully in an anti-weather defensive core with Heatran and Skarmory. Gastrodon is immune to the Water attacks aimed at Heatran, and the Electric moves aimed at Skarmory, while the other two 4x resist Gastrodon's sole grass weakness.
Bippa201 said:
Wow, I actually just thought up that core yesterday in the car. Cool.
I second this. Gastrodon is the prime counter to Rain. He completely walls Politoed, Rotom W, Tyranitar, some Gliscor, and Heatran. I personally run a physically defensive Stockpile varient, so that Gastrodon can also take on Sandstorm abusers like Excadrill and Landorus better. However, you should run in that core something that can take on Fighting types like Scrappy and Conkeldurr. I personally run SubDisable Gengar. But anyways, on topic, Gastrodon is extremely underrated and should get a lot more usage.
And @6D: Yeah... Swampert is horrible this generation. Both Gastrodon and Quagsire got amazing merits from B/W (Unaware and Storm Drain respectively), while Swampert got Damp. That would've been amazing last generation.... but now that Explosion is nerfed it sucks.
Gastrodon does sound pretty cool. I initially wrote him off as being one of those overhyped Pokemon, but like Chillarmy posted he does seem to be able to counter a healthy number of Pokemon too. It's a shame he's so weak to Ferrothorn however, it comes in and basically gets a free turn to use Spikes... Maybe partner it with a spinner to be super safe.
Politoed should see more use because Rain is totally broken