Competitive Discussion Of The Week 2

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The PDC Show comes to an abrupt end...
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I told you I would continue this =D. This one i'm sure you can all relate. It's one of the more fun topics that I think you would enjoy, so here it is.

There's always a Pokemon that is left un-noticed until people really get into it. It's a gemstone in the rubble. What is that Pokemon in this generation? Remember to back your answer with background information so we really understand what your saying. So who do YOU think the underdog is this generation?

What Pokemon in your opinion is a gemstone in the rubble this generation?
 
Furiijio. Sure, it takes a lot of stealth rock damage. But it has phenomenal special stats (I once destroyed half a team using only my furiijio) and is the fastest rapid spinner in the game. Not to mention the fact that it has levitate.
 
I'm going to have to say Aianto. It may not look like much but when paired up with Shanderaa, Make Friends+Truant is quite deadly.
 
Definately Mamanbou. With Regeneration and Wish, it is a fantastic team player. It can take so much abuse from other Pokemon. Pure Water typing seperates it from Blissey and Chansey, who pass larger wishes. Because of its low special defense, Mirror Coat works well as a counter to special attackers, and with Mamanbo's giant 165 base HP, it can surely take a super effective Thunderbolt and reflect it for a KO. Regeneration is truly a fantastic ability when one supports the team as well as Mamanbo (imagine Nattorei with Regeneration).

Now, its not without its faults. Its attacking stats are low (75 Atk/45 SpA), so it won't do much on the offensive front. But this thing is built to act as a pivot.
 
That, sir, is an epic question.
There are a couple of cool Pokemon that can be used to a great effect in the hands of experienced players, but my favorite is probably Kurimugan. Even for an inferior attacking Dragon, Kurimugan can make for a great physical wall. Rough Skin, Rugged Helmet, and Glare make for a great and deadly combination. It's one of the first great defensive Dragons I've seen. But it's just an opinion.
 
I think Gorrugo is very underrated. It can switch in on a Fighting/Normal attack, Rock Polish, and hit hard with a No Guard Dynamic Punch. It's defensive are horrible, but it still does pretty well.
 
Unaware Quagsire is an awesome check to a lot of stuff this gen, and gives stall teams yet another reliable way to deal with the many set-up sweepers available.
 
Thing is, pokemon such as Salamence can KO it, without setup. /; It just isn't bulky enough. If you have answers to pokemon who can KO Quagsire, which is a lot of pokemon, then yes, Quagsire is going to carry its weight. If not, well..
 
Bulky Salamence
Salamence @ Leftovers
252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
- Wish
- Protect
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Dragon Tail

One of the best checks to many of the new fighters and just physical Pokemon in general because of Intimidate. Wish offers team support which is why it is used over Roost. Fire Blast doesn't ohko Nattorei but does enough damage over Flamethrower where I'll trade the acc. for the extra power. Dragon Tail is one of, if not, the best new moves introduced in Gen 5. It functions like another entry hazard and can force your opponent into tough positions.

Shuffling Garchomp
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

A great sleep absorber for sleep moves (Breloom and Venasaur) and deadly if there are any hazards down. If it's sleeping it'll have its natural speed with Sleep Talk, so Roar or Dragon Tail won't always go last.
 
Life Orb 252 Attack Salamence with a neutral attack nature does 60%~ to standard Quagsire, and the fact is, no one runs 252 Attack anyway. Ice Punch in return is a definite KO factoring in Stealth Rock and the Life Orb damage it has taken from attacking (the Life Orb damage isn't even necessary in most cases). Plus, with Mence's new ability (Overconfidence, was it?), more people are running Dragon Claw over Outrage... so yeah, you get the picture. Stuff like Dory can't touch it either... so yeah, I can say from experience, it does work.
 
^its called moxie. Another underused poke in my opinion is dasutodasu. It has both spikes, an excellent stall movepool, and the new broken armor ability that boosts speed with every physical hit.
 
^its called moxie. Another underused poke in my opinion is dasutodasu. It has both spikes, an excellent stall movepool, and the new broken armor ability that boosts speed with every physical hit.
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80/82/82 isn't good defenses for stall. I'm not even sure if it's movepool is good when compared to it's stats, either. You could lay down 2 layers of (Toxic) Spikes with a Sash, but that's only if your opponent doesn't have Taunt. Breakable Armor isn't to good, either. It just means after you lay down a layer of spikes, get hit with a physical attack, Sash activates, you get a speed boost, and then lay down another layer or explode. That's all.

Edit;
I've liked this Mence set since the introduction of Dragon Tail:
Salamence @ Leftovers
Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Tail

You basically get in some Dragon Dances, sleep off any damage, then Sleep Talk. Because of Sleep Talk, Dragon Tail has a normal priority (0). You do damage, phaze, sweep, all the good stuff. It works really well if you get in Entry Hazards because there are Pokemon that really don't fear Dragon Tail's 60 BP, even after a boost *cough*steeltypes*cough* :)
 
Well Quagsire has 95/85/65 and it seems to be very good defensively but I guess its typing contributes a lot to that. I like Vaporeon quite a bit again with Water Absorb because rain is still a threat and grass knot doesn't really hurt it.
 
NATTOREI
Swoobat, or Kokoromori, is really cool, IMO. Simple lets it double boost with Calm Mind and Charge Beam. It has decent HP if I remember correctly, good speed, and good SpA. Granted, it has horrible defensive and offensive typing, but it also has a decent movepool, and can really catch people off-guard. OU? Probably not. But, he's underrated nonetheless.
 
I like Klinklang. Doesn't seem to appear much in stall discussion, so I get the view it's underrated. It's got a good range of moves, w/ Body Purge and Gear Change as stat increases, the LO/Zap Cannon combo, Gear Saucer, the steel Bonemerang, and a great all-around stat set save Sp. Atk to begin with. Speediest Steel-type I've ever seen! You guys better look into Klinklang.

Then, there's Darmanitan. A F-Sash plus Daruma Mode is a one shot. You can attack with a Close Combat, then in Daruma Mode for Overheat. One question: Does Darmanitan revert to normal if Full Restored or such?
~AoH
 
If ti's been mentioned I'm sorry, but watch for Kojondo (#620). Nice offensive stats (125 ATK and 95 Sp Atk) , decent speed (105), and a nice list of possible Egg moves like Baton Pass and Knock off to fill those roles if you want it to. The only thing keeping it down as a Mix Sweeper is a sad base 65 HP and a fairly mono-typed move set.
 
I'm really liking Gyarados. In Gen 4, Gyarados often got tossed aside due to how easily it was beat / revenged by things like Rotom-A and Scarf Flygon. Rotom is still around a lot, but many of those other threats have disappeared. Also, there are a ton of new Ground- and Fighting-type mons who have a hard time dealing a lot of damage to Gyarados due to resistances and Intimidate. Even if you don't use Intimidate, Moxie is so much fun to mess around with. One of my matches took a total of 9 turns before i 6-0'd with a Gyarados sweep. It's hard to pick out an actual set for it since it really depends on your team. My Dragon Dance versions have always had DD / Waterfall / Bounce and whatever 4th move i felt like, usually Earthquake / Taunt / Thunderwave / Stone Edge / etc.

I have seen defensive versions be quite effective too. Gyarados got Dragon Tail in Gen 5, which doesn't seem like much, but actually helps Gyarados a lot. In Gen 4, Gyarados only had Roar, which obviously doesn't do damage. Not only does Dragon Tail do damage, but it hits Dragon-types super effectively, which is one of the few types not vulnerable to Water-type attacks.
 
Gyarados is really good in the 5th generation but I disagree on one point. I think it was very effective in the 4th gen when paired with the right Pokemon. It was like the dream come true 6-0 after one turn of set up pokemon. Also, with Intimidate it was great on stall teams too with Rest Talk. I guess it's going to be a great Pokemon even this generation.
 
Deoxys-S. I've been on the ladder constantly and I haven't seen Deoxys-S once. The main trait that it brings to the table is being a face hazard setter. It's adequete defenses are also very good traits. I've been using a team with it and it works wonder. Being able to prevent and set 2 layers of hazards all the time is amazing. This will give semi-stall teams a big adavantage. This may be what they really need to become a common style.
 
Hyperbeem said:
Gyarados is really good in the 5th generation but I disagree on one point. I think it was very effective in the 4th gen when paired with the right Pokemon. It was like the dream come true 6-0 after one turn of set up pokemon. Also, with Intimidate it was great on stall teams too with Rest Talk. I guess it's going to be a great Pokemon even this generation.
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Ok let me clarify. Bulky and RestTalk Gyarados both had there places. RestTalk especially was quite good when used correctly as it stopped / countered a lot of threats. Bulky Gyarados worked because it took advantage of its respectable defenses and Intimidate.

Offensive Gyarados was severely overrated. By going completely offensive, you're passing up a lot of Gyarados has going for it (read: unique and good typing / bulky stats). It's also revenged quite easily, like i said. It has to rely on an attack with 80 base power, which in the great scheme of things is not very good. Rotom-A didn't take much damage from Gyarados no matter what moves it used, as it resists Bounce, Waterfall has low base power, and it's immune to EQ. Waterfall does more than Stone Edge too, factoring in STAB. Gyarados' biggest weakness is probably passive damage. By the time you have a DD, chances are you only have 50-60%, which leaves you open to just about any common Scarfer.

Gyarados was also significantly outclassed by Salamence and Kingdra before and then after the Mence ban. If you simply put a Choice Scarf on Salamence, you already have much more Speed and Attack than +1 / +1 Gyarados, without the turn of setting up. Outrage also has the additional 40 base power over Waterfall. Kingdra also does the sweeper role better than Gyarados because of its typing. Since it's only weak to Dragon-Type moves, not much will be OHKOing it, especially since very those Dragons won't be switching in. Kingdra also only needs two moves for full coverage, as opposed to Gyarados' three, which still leave it with holes.

If i'm playing seriously, I can't see myself using any Gyarados that doesn't have significant investment in HP and / or the defenses. Even that Moxie Gyarados I referenced earlier has a good amount of HP IVs. If you're going to use Gyarados, you need to be using it's defensive attributes. Otherwise, chances are you'll be outclassed by something.
 
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