Competitive Team Help (Updated)

[It2Zoroark]

Ok so I have the following Mons as my core, but don't know what to pick for support although I am considering Toxicroak (Dry Skin/Poison Touch) and Rotom - W. Also I have no idea really what I am doing when it comes to EV's so If my spreads are bad please give alternate spreads that would optimize my mons. They have not been trained yet so any help is awesome.

My Core team is

Charizard (m) @ M Stone Y
Blaze (Drought)
244 SpA 252 Spe 12 SpD
Timid
Heat Wave
Solar Beam
Focus Blast
Protect

I chose Charizard Y because I really like sun teams and drought blanks water type moves that would threaten M Char while boosting my own fire moves and activating solar beam and chlorophyll. Charizard is a solid wall breaker so I invested 244 SpA 252 Spe and 12 SpD to keep it around longer.

Venusaur (m) @ Life Orb
Chlorophyll
SpA 252 Spe 76 Hp 180
Modest
Giga Drain
Sludge Bomb
Sleep Powder
Protect

Venusaur was chosen for it's high special attack and ridiculous speed with Chlorophyll. Sludge bomb and Giga drain are great STAB moves that offer good coverage against Rotom W, Greninja, T Tar, and rain teams that include Ludicolo. Venusaur outspeeds pretty much everything in the sun aside from other chlorophylls with more speed investment and may a couple scarfed mons so I only invested 76 in speed to be able to make it a very powerful, fast, and bulky special sweeper.

Raichu (M) @ Focus Sash
Lightning Rod
Timid
SpA 252 Spe 252 Def 4
Thunderbolt/Volt Switch (thoughts?)
Nuzzle
Fake Out
Protect

Raichu is here for a very fast fakeout/status support to give my slower mons the edge in battle. Being sashed ensures it'll will get atleast one hit off before going down unless it gets double teamed by really fast mons. Raichu is not the most powerful special attacker but can hit and run really well.

Garchomp (f) @ Choice Scarf
Rough Skin
Jolly
Atk 252 Spe 252 SpD 4
Dragon Claw
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Brick Break

Garchomp is a very good coverage poke that counters the main weaknesses to the team which are fire (extremely common), Ice (extremely common), flying (uncommon), and rock (Common). carrying Scarf and rough skin ensures that it gets in damage in physical battles allowing for easier knockouts. Rock slide and STAB EQ take care of all of the weaknesses while Dragon claw is a super strong STAB move that counters other dragons.

Tentacruel (m) @ Weakness Policy
Clear Body
Bold
Spe 32 SpA 60 Hp 252 SpD 40 Def 124
Scald
Sludge Wave
Toxic
Protect

Tentacruel is a very bulky mon that can take 2-3 hits easily which makes it a good weakness policy carrier. Tentacruel can set up status with toxic and scald to shut down walls and physical attackers. Sludge wave is a very potent STAB move for fairy coverage and is very powerful when combined with an activated policy.

Rotom - W @ Leftovers
Levitate
Hp 252 SpA 60 SpD 180 Spe 16
Calm
Hydro Pump
Thunder Bolt
Will - O - Wisp
Protect

Standard Rotom Wash set for coverage STAB moves, will - o wisp, and bulk. Rotom is good for walling a lot of common threats and having only one weakness makes it a solid choice. The con to Rotom wash here is drought decreases the power of hydro pump which, while unlikely, could cause problems late game.

Well that is my projected team but I am not sure if the last two are good fits for the team as a whole. If you have any advice or suggestions please let me know, Thanks =)

 

[Cinesra]

RE: Competitive Team Help (OU/VGC Doubles)

Okay so first of all the title should really be changed because this is a doubles team and not suited for OU play unless you want to have a move with little use (protect) on just about everything.

Ok so I have the following Mons as my core, but don't know what to pick for support although I am considering Toxicroak (Dry Skin/Poison Touch)

Poison Touch has very litle use and Dry Skin actually is useful, but you're using a Drought team. I guess it's okay for playing against rain teams, but I'd imagine that a Kingdra would just OHKO you with a Draco Meteor and I'm sure you could fin something more useful to help you against rain. To my knowledge, Ludicolo is pretty good on and against rain so using that instead would probably be better.

and Rotom - W. Also I have no idea really what I am doing when it comes to EV's so If my spreads are bad please give alternate spreads that would optimize my mons. They have not been trained yet so any help is awesome.

My Core team is

Charizard (m) @ M Stone Y
Blaze (Drought)
SpA 108 Spe 60 Def 124 SpD 116 Hp 100
Modest
Heat Wave
Solar Beam
Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse (I am not sure which is better with my team)
Protect

I chose Charizard Y because I really like sun teams and drought blanks ice type

Drought does nothing to Ice type moves.

and water type moves that would threaten M Char, Venusaur, Trevenant, and Garchomp while boosting my own fire moves and activating solar beam and chlorophyll. Charizard is base really specially powerful and fast mon so I invested EV's in Hp, Def, and SpD to keep it around longer.

Generally speaking, you want to invest EV's in what your Pokemon is good at. An offensive Mega Zard Y with defensive EV's is just making your offensive mon subpar unless you need them to survive something specific. I'd recommend checking out these articles or this page for some good Zard Y EV spreads. You really never want to just slap random EV's around or almost as bad, split your EV's up evenly like some newcomers try to put 128/128 on mons or even run enough EV's to even out two stats for no reason.

For the moves, I'd think Focus Blast is more important as Tyranitar (I think Heatran is legal in VGC 2015, so that, too) is a bigger threat to Zard than the like two relevant Dragon types I'm aware of in VGC, but Overheat is a viable option to do heavy damage to a single target when you need something gone ASAP or your opponent has Wide Guard/something with Flash Fire. To my knowledge Overheat is used more often than FB/D Pulse, so I assume it's better.

Venusaur (m) @ Black Sludge
Chlorophyll
SpA 252 Spe 20 Hp 36 Def 100 SpD 100
Timid
Giga Drain
Sludge Bomb
Sleep Powder/Stun Spore (don't know which is better)
Protect

Venusaur was chosen for it's high special attack and ridiculous speed with Chlorophyll. Sludge bomb and Giga drain are great STAB moves that offer good coverage against Rotom W, Greninja, T Tar, and rain teams that include Ludicolo. Venusaur is bulky and can take a hit or two.

Sleep Powder is better than Stun Spore. You may want to try out Leaf Storm, Growth, or Synthesis over Sleep Powder. For the EV's use 180 HP 252 SpA 76 Spe with a Modest nature to be outsped by like nothing save for maybe a fast Scarfer or Tailwind/something else that boosts your opponents' speed. You're using an offensive Venusaur, so use Life Orb unless I suggest putting it on somthing later on in this post, in which case use Expert Belt, unless I say use that on something else, too, in which case keep Black Sludge.

Trevenant (m) @ Sitrus Berry
Harvest
Hp 252 Def 128 SpD 128
Impish
Will - O - Wisp
Leech Seed
Horn Leech/Drain Punch (horn leech is STAB but drain punch gives better coverage, thoughts?)
Phantom Force

Trevenant is my favorite mon on the team because of it's ability to abuse sitrus berry with drought. Tree is here to set up leech seed and burn will carrying horn leech and phantom force for power Stab coverage. Tree is really bulky and does not hit that hard, but can prove to be a very tough mon to down.

To my knowledge Trevenant isn't that great in VGC, so you might want to replace it with something that can handle specific threats. I'm not naming anything because I don't know too much about VGC and am lazy. People like to run 244 HP/ 84 Def/ 180 SpDef to survive certain hits, so use that I guess if you must keep this mon. Also keep Horn Leech.

Garchomp (f) @ Rocky Helmet
Rough Skin
Rocky Helmet
Jolly
Atk 252 Spe 252 SpD 4
Dragon Claw
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Protect

Garchomp is a very good coverage poke that counters the main weaknesses to the team which are fire (extremely common), Ice (extremely common), flying (uncommon), and rock (Common). carrying rocky helmet and rough skin ensures that it gets in damage in physical battles allowing for easier knockouts. Rock slide and EQ take care of all of the weaknesses while Dragon claw is a super strong STAB move that counters other dragons.

Looks good enough to me. You might want to use Focus Sash, Lum Berry, LO, or Expert Belt over Rocky Helmet, though.

THESE ARE POSSIBLE #5 and #6

Okay. No need to yell

Toxicroak (m or f) @ Life Orb (with poison touch) or Muscle Band (with Dry Skin)

Never use Muscle Band or whatever the special version of it is. You're pretty much always better off using LO or Expert Belt or Lum Berry. It's that weak.

Poison Touch/Dry Skin
Atk 252 Spe 252 SpD 4
Adamant
Taunt/Drain Punch (Not sure which to pick here, thoughts?)

Definitely Drain Punch

Fake Out
Sucker Punch
Poison Jab

Gunk Shot is better than Poison Jab.

Toxicroak counters really fast mons and scarfed mons with fake out and sucker punch. taunt keeps trick room and status mons from getting set up and keeps sweepers from setting up. Dry skin is a great counter to water types and rain teams. Poison touch is a good status ability. The issue with Dry Skin is the obvious drought weakness with the fire team, but Toxicroak is a solid hitter still.

Toxicroak really isn't that great in doubles, especially when it's only good ability is hurt by the weather you run. It might have some use if you ran a rain team and paired it with a mon that gets Surf, but otherwise, don't bother. I couldn't even find an article from somebody using Croak this year on Nuggetbridge. I mentioned Ludicolo being good earlier, so just copy a set from Nuggetbridge or Smogon. Ludicolo even gets Fake Out. They generally run Fake Out, Giga Drain, Scald, and Ice Beam with an Assault Vest and a Modest nature. I think I saw 252 HP / 84 Def / 148 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe twice, so use that I guess.

Rotom - W @ Leftovers
Levitate
SpA 252 Hp 108 SpD 108 Spe 40

Oh hey, it's that dreaded arbitrary split of defensive EV's I mentioned earlier [/quote]

Calm
Hydro Pump
Thunder Bolt
Will - O - Wisp
Protect

Standard Rotom Wash set for coverage STAB moves, will - o wisp, and bulk. Rotom is good for walling a lot of common threats and having only one weakness makes it a solid choice. The con to Rotom wash here is drought decreases the power of hydro pump which, while unlikely, could cause problems late game.

Well that is my projected team but I am not sure if the last two are good fits for the team as a whole. If you have any advice or suggestions please let me know, Thanks =)

You'll generally find a Sitrus Berry better in Doubles because the games are shorter than singles so you get less turns to heal with Lefties. Chesto Berry+Rest over Protect could be good, too. I'd suggest copying an EV spread from Nuggetbridge or Smogon.

 

[It2Zoroark]

RE: Competitive Team Help (OU/VGC Doubles)

I appreciate the response and some of your points were helpful regarding EV spreads, but did you seriously say protect has little use? While I don't have a lot of experience in competitive play, I can honestly say that protect has been single-handedly the most important move on my team. It allows M Char to safely go mega and scout a move or switch, it allows Venusaur and Rotom to take extra advantage of Black Sludge and Leftovers respectively, and it allows me to safely predict moves from my opponent instead of just switching in another pokemon to take the damage. Not saying that switching is never the right play, but protect has much more utility than just keeping a mon from being hit for a turn.

 

[Chaos Jackal]

RE: Competitive Team Help (OU/VGC Doubles)

There are very few reasons to use Protect in singles. Most commonly you will use it to Toxic stall (Heatran), when you have major heals on you (Gliscor) or when you have a Speed Booster (Ninjask/Scolipede). Apart from that, Protect may be useful at scouting or Mega Evolving, but it's generally inferior to any other viable option you may have. Charizard has absolutely no use of it, its Speed and typing remain unchanged with Mega Evolving and all you manage to accomplish is waste a slot that should be used by a coverage move, something necessary for a wallbreaker and all-out attacker. Venusaur again has no need of it. You want to use him as a Drought sweeper, use him properly. Don't throw needless defenses in the bucket, don't throw status moves, don't throw Protect. Protect won't allow you extra Black Sludge (by the way, you badly need LO) recovery. It will be a total waste if your opponent is asleep or paralyzed, it takes up a spot that could have been used for HP Fire or other coverage, and it uses up your precious Drought turns. Garchomp again wastes a moveslot that could be used for coverage or SD. As for Rotom, it prevents it from running Pain Split or Rest, both of which are way more helpful than the occassional extra turn for Lefties. As for the "scouting" you mentioned, it exists, yeah, but most of the time it will just confirm what you already know; the chances of a Greninja shooting Hydro Pump at MegaZard Y are like 99%. You confirmed it; so what? You will risk keeping Charizard in, expecting, say Ice Beam for your Venusaur switch? But your point was to confirm the move, so why risk keeping it in? You could have already done so without wasting a turn of Drought on Protect. Yeah, scouting is helpful in cases, but it doesn't excuse the use of Protect in a single battle.
tl;dr Protect is for Doubles. Nearly everything in Doubles must have Protect. For Singles though, Protect is 90% of the time a subpar and underwhelming choice.

 

[It2Zoroark]

RE: Competitive Team Help (OU/VGC Doubles)

There are very few reasons to use Protect in singles. Most commonly you will use it to Toxic stall (Heatran), when you have major heals on you (Gliscor) or when you have a Speed Booster (Ninjask/Scolipede). Apart from that, Protect may be useful at scouting or Mega Evolving, but it's generally inferior to any other viable option you may have. Charizard has absolutely no use of it, its Speed and typing remain unchanged with Mega Evolving and all you manage to accomplish is waste a slot that should be used by a coverage move, something necessary for a wallbreaker and all-out attacker. Venusaur again has no need of it. You want to use him as a Drought sweeper, use him properly. Don't throw needless defenses in the bucket, don't throw status moves, don't throw Protect. Protect won't allow you extra Black Sludge (by the way, you badly need LO) recovery. It will be a total waste if your opponent is asleep or paralyzed, it takes up a spot that could have been used for HP Fire or other coverage, and it uses up your precious Drought turns. Garchomp again wastes a moveslot that could be used for coverage or SD. As for Rotom, it prevents it from running Pain Split or Rest, both of which are way more helpful than the occassional extra turn for Lefties. As for the "scouting" you mentioned, it exists, yeah, but most of the time it will just confirm what you already know; the chances of a Greninja shooting Hydro Pump at MegaZard Y are like 99%. You confirmed it; so what? You will risk keeping Charizard in, expecting, say Ice Beam for your Venusaur switch? But your point was to confirm the move, so why risk keeping it in? You could have already done so without wasting a turn of Drought on Protect. Yeah, scouting is helpful in cases, but it doesn't excuse the use of Protect in a single battle.
tl;dr Protect is for Doubles. Nearly everything in Doubles must have Protect. For Singles though, Protect is 90% of the time a subpar and underwhelming choice.

This is a doubles team... its in the description.

 

[PhantomHaze]

RE: Competitive Team Help (OU/VGC Doubles)

This is a doubles team... its in the description.

If this is a Double Team, I recommend removing the OU part of your post's subject. It can cause confusion on what team it is as OU and VGC are two completely different metas.

I recommend not using Croak, like Cinesra stated. Ludicolo is a great option like he said, it give Fake Out support and has great bulk with AV. Here is a set that I found on Smogon for VGC 2014:
Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Rain Dish/Swift Swim
EVs: 164 HP / 140 Def / 68 SpA / 4 SpD / 132 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Fake Out

Here are the Set Details:
This set uses the Assault Vest to boost Ludicolo's Special Defense with very little investment, allowing it to invest far more in Defense. With the EVs listed, Ludicolo can survive a maximum Attack Play Rough from Mega Mawile, which is one of the strongest neutral physical hits in the game. On top of that, a Jolly nature Garchomp will never 2HKO with Dragon Claw and has a decent chance to be OHKOed by Ice Beam. With the Assault Vest, Ludicolo is never 2HKOed by Modest Salamence's Draco Meteor, not considering the Special Attack drop. Rain Dish gives Ludicolo recovery equal to Leftovers each turn in rain, improving its overall longevity. With the Speed EVs, Ludicolo can outspeed the most defensive Rotom-W and threaten them directly with Giga Drain. Ludicolo will hit 214 Speed in rain thanks to Swift Swim, allowing it to outspeed most other Pokemon.

If you want to read a little more on him here is Ludicolo Smogon page!

 

[It2Zoroark]

RE: Competitive Team Help (OU/VGC Doubles)

This is a doubles team... its in the description.

If this is a Double Team, I recommend removing the OU part of your post's subject. It can cause confusion on what team it is as OU and VGC are two completely different metas.

I recommend not using Croak, like Cinesra stated. Ludicolo is a great option like he said, it give Fake Out support and has great bulk with AV. Here is a set that I found on Smogon for VGC 2014:
Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Rain Dish/Swift Swim
EVs: 164 HP / 140 Def / 68 SpA / 4 SpD / 132 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Fake Out

Here are the Set Details:
This set uses the Assault Vest to boost Ludicolo's Special Defense with very little investment, allowing it to invest far more in Defense. With the EVs listed, Ludicolo can survive a maximum Attack Play Rough from Mega Mawile, which is one of the strongest neutral physical hits in the game. On top of that, a Jolly nature Garchomp will never 2HKO with Dragon Claw and has a decent chance to be OHKOed by Ice Beam. With the Assault Vest, Ludicolo is never 2HKOed by Modest Salamence's Draco Meteor, not considering the Special Attack drop. Rain Dish gives Ludicolo recovery equal to Leftovers each turn in rain, improving its overall longevity. With the Speed EVs, Ludicolo can outspeed the most defensive Rotom-W and threaten them directly with Giga Drain. Ludicolo will hit 214 Speed in rain thanks to Swift Swim, allowing it to outspeed most other Pokemon.

If you want to read a little more on him here is Ludicolo Smogon page!

Thanks for the advice, I will see what Mr. Colo can offer to the team =)

 

[Cinesra]

RE: Competitive Team Help

I appreciate the response and some of your points were helpful regarding EV spreads, but did you seriously say protect has little use? While I don't have a lot of experience in competitive play, I can honestly say that protect has been single-handedly the most important move on my team. It allows M Char to safely go mega and scout a move or switch, it allows Venusaur and Rotom to take extra advantage of Black Sludge and Leftovers respectively, and it allows me to safely predict moves from my opponent instead of just switching in another pokemon to take the damage. Not saying that switching is never the right play, but protect has much more utility than just keeping a mon from being hit for a turn.

I meant that Protect has little use in singles. I thought that was clear but I could have been more specific.

 

[It2Zoroark]

RE: Competitive Team Help

I am not disputing that, but this is a doubles team not singles.

 

[Cinesra]

RE: Competitive Team Help

That's great and I know that, but I was referring to the title of the thread at the time which read something along the lines of OU/VGC, and OU is singles.

 

[It2Zoroark]

RE: Competitive Team Help

That's great and I know that, but I was referring to the title of the thread at the time which read something along the lines of OU/VGC, and OU is singles.

Ah ok, that is where the confusion was lol. My bad yeah I am still new to competitive video game pokemon. I am established in the TCG but I did not know there was a distinction. Thank you very much for clearing that up =) sorry if I came across as rude that was not my intention.