Could Plusle work as a consistency Pokemon?

Machamp The Champion

Machamp The Champion

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Disclaimer! I have realized that Plusle can't be used to "set up", without Minun at least, and would mainly be good as a way out of a late game N.

Right now, in our BW on format, we have pretty meh set up Pokemon. Emolga of course is the most common one. There is also Virizion. I'm not the biggest fan of Emolga in most decks (Including Eel decks), and Virizion doesn't seem to help out in most situations. Since I usually get N'd or use N and get rid of that large hand anyways.

That only leaves Plusle. Back when it came out, some (Emphasis on some) people thought it could be a decent replacement for Cleffa. It doesn't get 1 shot by Night Spear or Triple Laser damage, and it can draw more then any draw supporter we have (Potentially, other then a really lucky Copycat back in the Cleffa days). It can also get you out of a late game N. If you draw a Level Ball or something, that could turn into 4 cards (If you have the Energy and a way to get Plusle active). Now you might be thinking "4 cards is pretty bad right now". But when you think about it, N gets you basically the same amount in the mid to late game. And Cleffa gave you the same amount as a PONT, and since N is our only shuffle draw right now, 4 doesn't seem too awful to me.

So what do you guys think about him? What decks is he good in? Should he also be paired with Minun? I've been thinking of Empoleon. Since even without Minun, Diving Draw can make it into a larger hand, and Minun helps fill up the bench as well.

What Plusle does: http://pokebeach.com/scans/dark-explorers/39-plusle.jpg
What Minun does: http://pokebeach.com/scans/dark-explorers/40-minun.jpg

~MtC
 
RE: Could Plusle work as a Set Up Pokemon?

I actually had a discussion with a friend the other day about plusle, and we came to a few reasons as to why Plusle is just...inferior as an option for support:

-Needing an energy to attack: While every pokemon in the format requires an energy to attack now, having to use a total of two cards (Three if you use level ball to search) to refresh your hand to four is atrocious. Baltoy's a disruption deck that leaves you with four cards to give an idea of how bad a 4-card hand is (This statement's obviously for a bench w/o minun).
-Energy to retreat: Sure, Virizion does this as well, but having to not only give an energy to your plusle to refresh your hand, you're going to use another card to get it out of the active position: Switch, Skyarrow Bridge, or discard your energy (There are exceptions, I know). While some decks are OK with discarding the energy (Darkrai/Eelektrik, but these are decks that benefit more from Emolga), Plusle's setting the deck back further than it needs.
-Lack of defense: You say Plusle's good because it's not OHKO'd by Night Spear residual/Triple Laser, but when it's in the active spot (where you need it to be to refresh), Plusle's vulnerable to everything your opponent can launch at it. Cleffa had Sweet Sleeping Face to kinda help with that (and with the 50% chance of working, effectively the same average HP as Plusle, fun fact), Manaphy had a good HP in a format where 60HP was a good number to have, Virizion has 110HP (and resistance to water, if Empoleon's an issue). Plusle has....nothing.
-Space on the bench: If you're refreshing your hand, obviously you're trying to get your hand to have all the necessary materials at the same time to put onto the field...but how can you do that if you've taken up a space with Plusle (or 2 with Minun). Where Plusle helps in setting up a complicated bench, it hurts the setup in the process. Yes, Emolga/Virizon do this as well, but they at least serve some other sort of purpose (Emolga's a free retreating promoter, Virizion can tank if need be).
-Lack of offense: Both Emolga and Plusle fall in this category. The most they can achieve to do is KO a Swablu (or a Piplup on a flip in Plusle's case), though this is in an electric-type deck. Guess what the most popular Electric deck is, and which setup pokemon they prefer (Having to swarm the field with Tynamo)?

As for running him in Empoleon, and testing Plusle in my Empoleon builds, I can say there are better options for the deck (Read: Emolga). Don't run too many types of setup mons in your deck, or you're cutting consistency, and for stage 2 decks, Emolga's infinitely better.

[/sand=Deoxysmatter]
 
RE: Could Plusle work as a Set Up Pokemon?

Deoxysmatter said:
Darkrai/Eelektrik, but these are decks that benefit more from Emolga

-Lack of defense: You say Plusle's good because it's not OHKO'd by Night Spear residual/Triple Laser, but when it's in the active spot (where you need it to be to refresh), Plusle's vulnerable to everything your opponent can launch at it. Cleffa had Sweet Sleeping Face to kinda help with that (and with the 50% chance of working, effectively the same average HP as Plusle, fun fact), Manaphy had a good HP in a format where 60HP was a good number to have, Virizion has 110HP (and resistance to water, if Empoleon's an issue). Plusle has....nothing.
Click to expand...

Darkrai can set up fine without Emolga.

I mainly meant that once you're done with it, it's not as easy as target as Cleffa was to night spear. There are better things to do with Night Spear damage then 2HKO a set up Pokemon that you're probably done with for a while. The difference between a 2HKO from night spear damage and 1HKO from night spear damage makes a pretty big difference.

Your other points seem pretty valid, though.
 
RE: Could Plusle work as a Set Up Pokemon?

If you're playing both Plusle and Minun down, you can get in weird (and honestly bad) situations where Darkrai is taking its last two Prizes on them as they can put 30 on one of them and Pokemon Catcher the other. Honestly, decks can't afford to give up Prizes that easily and prizes are prizes, even if they are on setup Pokemon (part of the reason why I think Sableye and Emolga are some of the only "true" setup cards able to played in the new format and even then, they're definitely not needed for every deck, only certain specific ones).

dmaster out.
 
RE: Could Plusle work as a Set Up Pokemon?

I meant to say Darkrai/Hydreigon, not just straight Darkrai. Sorry for my mistake.
 
RE: Could Plusle work as a Set Up Pokemon?

Deoxysmatter said:
I meant to say Darkrai/Hydreigon, not just straight Darkrai. Sorry for my mistake.
Click to expand...

Yea. I meant Darkrai/Hydreigon as well. As I've said. I don't really even like Emolga in Eels, which needs a lot more to set up then Hydreigon does. So Hydriegon seems even more redundant to me. I'm sure he's fine in both, I just don't think he's great in either.
 
RE: Could Plusle work as a Set Up Pokemon?

I would never run Emolga in Darkrai/Hydregion. You really one need 2-3 Pokemon to be set up for most of the game. You might have to drop a tech later, but by then you won't need Emolga anyways.
 
RE: Could Plusle work as a Set Up Pokemon?

If you think N is the bane of Virizion, what is your reasoning in thinking that Plusle is any better? They are both vulnerable to N in exactly the same way.
 
RE: Could Plusle work as a Set Up Pokemon?

I don't think that Plusle is a great starter for a few reasons. First, it only draws 4 cards without the support from Minun. 4 Cards used to be considered disruption (From Judge). You will usually draw dead after it which isn't good. It is easily outclassed by Emolga and Virizion. Though getting 4 new cards seems good at first, you must realize that you are losing your previous hand. This means you only have 5 cards including your topdeck to play out the game. If you don't hit a supporter card, you pretty much lose. Another reason Plusle is a risky card to play is it gets OHKOed by Terrakion's first attack. That is really bad because you can already be down a prize on the second turn. Plusle may become better in the future, but currently, it's not a card worth playing.
 
RE: Could Plusle work as a Set Up Pokemon?

bagleopard said:
If you think N is the bane of Virizion, what is your reasoning in thinking that Plusle is any better? They are both vulnerable to N in exactly the same way.
Click to expand...

Because I'm stupid and don't think of things :p But seriously, you'd usually use Plusle to get out of a really bad hand. Or a really small hand. And depending on how smart your opponent is or how badly they need the N, they usually won't use an N if they know there opponent has a really bad hand. So if you didn't use Plusle, they wouldn't use N and get you out of your bad hand, because they have no clue how good your new hand is.

You usually use Virizion at the start of the game just to get an upper hand, which is a common time for your opponent to use an N. At the end of the game, when both players are dry on resources and might not have an N in there hand/deck, and might disrupt them as well, when I have been thinking Plusle is at it's best, an N isn't as common.

Blaztoyz said:
Another reason Plusle is a risky card to play is it gets OHKOed by Terrakion's first attack. That is really bad because you can already be down a prize on the second turn. Plusle may become better in the future, but currently, it's not a card worth playing.
Click to expand...

Uh, there are tons of things that can be KOed turn 1 or 2 by lots of things. Terrakion to Tynamo, Dark Deino. Rayquaza to Tynamo, Swablu, Gible, Dragon Deino. Tornadus EX to a lot of stuff. That really isn't a problem, especially since Terrakion won't be as common now as it was in HGSS on. And Plusle really shouldn't be used as a starter anyway.

I know the title says "Set Up Pokemon" But I've realized that it's more of a way out of a really bad hand, and not a set up Pokemon. I'll edit the title in a sec.
 
I find it rather clumsy to consider using Plusle without Minun. Now I don't mean that as insult or trolling, but I would generally assume Plusle by itself gives you too small of a hand and will more often do harm than good. Plusle and Minun on the other hand could be quite viable draw support, and you can save them from a KO they could've suffered later with Super Scoop Up. I suppose you could run fewer Draw Supporters then, since Plusle and Minun could fill that gap nicely, and the extra Pokemon you add MIGHT make Pokemon Communication viable in your deck!
 
PumpedAaron said:
I find it rather clumsy to consider using Plusle without Minun. Now I don't mean that as insult or trolling, but I would generally assume Plusle by itself gives you too small of a hand and will more often do harm than good. Plusle and Minun on the other hand could be quite viable draw support, and you can save them from a KO they could've suffered later with Super Scoop Up. I suppose you could run fewer Draw Supporters then, since Plusle and Minun could fill that gap nicely, and the extra Pokemon you add MIGHT make Pokemon Communication viable in your deck!
Click to expand...

Plusle isn't worth it in the first place. If you play Minun along with it, You're deck is already not going to work. Those 2 Pokémon will take up 2 of your 6 spots on your field, making it almost impossible for most decks to set up. If I were to even consider running Plusle, I would run just him. Plusle is at least a minimum of 1 spot, if you run Minun also, it's a minimum of 2 spots, already hurting consistency. I would rather run a supporter for each Plusle and minun instead of having those 2.
 
I've tried a 2-2 line of Plusle/Minun in a deck before and it's awful. It's fairly easy to get a turn 1 hand refresh to 4 but there's no way you're consistently getting a refresh to 8. Definitely now worth the space in your deck or bench.
 
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