What do you think about energy switch coming back and how do you think the deck will look like? Also with the catcher losing power will Darkrai still play 4 or only 2 or 3.
Darkrai Gains Energy Switch
- Thread starter DarkraiGuy
- Start date
Escape rope is more viable for darkrai because you can then just retreat / energy switch and attack... As for E-switch, darkrai doesn't really need it now, unless your going for consistent turn 2 night spear. Ho-oh will be massive again because of E-switch and will become top tier hopefully, the bird deserves its chance to shine.
On the topic of catcher...
I don't think you can just drop to 2-3 catcher. In fact, wouldn't you want to do the opposite? The fact that each catcher now only has a 50% chance of working makes it so that you're going to need more of them to get it to work (although to be entirely honest, I think dropping catcher is a better idea than lowering/raising counts of it). Junk Hunt isn't really a viable option to consistently catcher stuff out also, since Junk Hunting is a huge liability that costs you a turn and most likely a prize as well. Escape rope doesn't really seem valid either; sure, it doesn't really hurt you, but you're opponent gets to choose what to move up. They'll send up what THEY want to get hit, not what you want. The chances of them having only 1 thing benched are pretty slim unless it's very early game, and that isn't enough time to justify playing Escape Rope.
This deck gets hit the hardest by catcher effect; not only is it now extremely difficult to kill a Mime that can troll you the entire game, but this deck literally can't OHKO anything, making it next to impossible to ever actually get a KO unless your opponent decides that it's ok for you to have one. It's going to have to cope in one way or another, and I don't think Escape Rope or playing less catcher is a viable solution (I don't really know what a solid solution for it is TBH; it's also why I think this deck isn't as close to as good as it used to be).
I don't think you can just drop to 2-3 catcher. In fact, wouldn't you want to do the opposite? The fact that each catcher now only has a 50% chance of working makes it so that you're going to need more of them to get it to work (although to be entirely honest, I think dropping catcher is a better idea than lowering/raising counts of it). Junk Hunt isn't really a viable option to consistently catcher stuff out also, since Junk Hunting is a huge liability that costs you a turn and most likely a prize as well. Escape rope doesn't really seem valid either; sure, it doesn't really hurt you, but you're opponent gets to choose what to move up. They'll send up what THEY want to get hit, not what you want. The chances of them having only 1 thing benched are pretty slim unless it's very early game, and that isn't enough time to justify playing Escape Rope.
This deck gets hit the hardest by catcher effect; not only is it now extremely difficult to kill a Mime that can troll you the entire game, but this deck literally can't OHKO anything, making it next to impossible to ever actually get a KO unless your opponent decides that it's ok for you to have one. It's going to have to cope in one way or another, and I don't think Escape Rope or playing less catcher is a viable solution (I don't really know what a solid solution for it is TBH; it's also why I think this deck isn't as close to as good as it used to be).
@Blah, those are valid claims but I don't think the deck gets hurt that much. I play darkrai and I just dropped catcher completely and added in 2 ropes. I also strongly disagree that knockouts will be next to impossible. The only thing that actually happens to this deck is it is probably going to require a secondary attacker as opposed to just darkrai. Testing with escape rope personally, I have found it to be a solid replacement for catcher that requires a little bit more timing and finesse to maximize the benefit of the card, with that said, it is definitely NOT catcher by any means. Virizion decks will be the most difficult to beat, but not impossible since its the only deck that shuts off laser/bank (unless you play garbodor). Energy switch will be just a important as it was before because it will allow the deck to set up faster, which will allow for the deck to stay competitive.
Blah said:
I think this is exactly the reason Darkrai should run Catcher. Catcher was vital to making the math work out for those double knockouts, and if there's any deck that can still use Catcher, it's Darkrai. Junk Hunt can get you back two Catchers so that you have a 94% chance of effect (the two instances you used Catcher to get it into the discard and the two instances you can reuse Catcher). That might not sound impressive, but considering most other decks either won't be running Catcher at all or not as much, Darkrai will have the advantage of still being able to select targets to Nightspear. I know you said it would be wasting a turn, but think of it this way: If you just used Nightspear, your opponent could retreat to the Bench and attack with something fresh. If they have Mr. Mime in play, you might never get to take that KO. So the Nightspear becomes equally irreverent making mid-game Junk Hunting for Catchers a lot more viable if you have to.
That was exactly my point; it becomes insanely hard to take KO's since they can simply retreat. My point about Junk Hunting though was that it takes an extra turn to let Darkrai take KO's; and while you are right that a Junk Hunt is just as much of a "waste" as a Night Spear in that situation, it still takes longer, thereby making the deck less efficient tan it used to be.
And while I understand the reasoning behind continuing to play catcher, I don't think it's a proper adaption to the new format. That 94% chance is after FOUR catchers, which you may not even be able to get at that point in the game. The fact that one of the most crucial cards in the deck is now a flip makes me uneasy, no matter how many times you can re - use them with Junk Hunt.
Anyway, my overall point was not that Darkrai is bad, but that it gets hurt by the rule changes more than other decks and isn't going to be as good.
And while I understand the reasoning behind continuing to play catcher, I don't think it's a proper adaption to the new format. That 94% chance is after FOUR catchers, which you may not even be able to get at that point in the game. The fact that one of the most crucial cards in the deck is now a flip makes me uneasy, no matter how many times you can re - use them with Junk Hunt.
Anyway, my overall point was not that Darkrai is bad, but that it gets hurt by the rule changes more than other decks and isn't going to be as good.
I feel that darkrai got hurt by catcher, but not "hammertime". Hammertime is back in full force. When your focus of your deck is a sableye to begin with, catchers are still going to be good. Right now I'm running 3 in hammertime and it's working fine. Considering dropping to 2. Energy switch also is huge for hammertime since it lets you move the energy around from your sableye to your keldeo if you need to or even to darkrai for a quick nightspear.
Mora said:
Point taken, and we'll see a more clear view on how the deck will perform once cities rolls around.
SoxDuck said:
I would actually argue that Hammers gets hurt even more than the regular version; since half the battle is slowing you're opponent down, without a consistent catcher it's much harder to pull off. TBH I don't really like Hammers in this deck anymore except Enhanced as techs; the variant noticeably died off around Nationals last year and it hasn't really gained any luster since (the only bonus is that they are extremely effective against Virizion / Genesect, but considering how much space they take up and that there are much easier ways to handle V / G, I think the regular Darkrai variant is a far better option for consistency's sake.)