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Darkrai/ToxicHammers

Violetwisp

Violetwisp

Arrogant Prick Who Theorymons Too Much
Member
I know this really isn't a new idea, in fact this deck has existed this entire format, but I thought that Hypnotoxic laser would be a good addition in a Darkrai EX / Sableye deck, but I am having a little trouble fitting it in well, so any help from people who are avid hammers players or good at theorymoning would be much appreciated. [Things that may need explaining are in brackets]
Pokemon: 9
Sableye x 4
Darkrai EX x 3
Mewtwo EX x 1 [Keeping one as a Mewtwo answer until it's proven ineffective]
Keldeo EX x1 [Just to Rush In then Dark Cloak out if they try to catcher something or they sleep something]

Supporters: 11
Juniper x 4
N x 4
Skyla x 3

Trainers: 29
Pokemon Catcher x 4
Dark Patch x 4
Crushing Hammer x 4
Ultra Ball x 4
Hypnotoxic Laser x 4 [Basically, poison things for a pseudo pluspower that gets triple it's power with virbank city gym up and severely punishes decks that can't switch easily. Also, in testing I've found the sleep can actually be a good clutch move, stopping a vital retreat or attack.]
Energy Switch x 3
Dark Claw x 2
Enhanced Hammer x 1
Bicycle x 1 [Testing]
Random Receiver x 1 [Mostly just to junk hunt for if needed]
Computer Search x 1

Stadium: 2
Virbank City Gym x 2 [Amplify that poison explained in Hypnotoxic laser, and also useful to shut down skyarrows, aspertia city and plasma frigate.]

Energy : 9
Darkness Energy x 9

So, Comments, Questions, Concerns?
-Violet
 
RE: Darkrai/Hammers Post Plasma Storm

The answer to the Stadium with Sableye's Junk Hunt is no. It states "2 ITEM CARDS" and a Stadium is a Trainer and Stadium.

Good decklist in my view! Good luck
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers Post Plasma Storm

In my opinion 4 Hypnotoxic and 1 Virbank is the correct play because EVERYONE will run Virbank, and if they run 3 Hypnotoxic and 2 Virbank, you will get things going faster.
So:
-1 Virbank City Gym
+1 Hypnotoxic Laser
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers Post Plasma Storm

blargh257 said:
In my opinion 4 Hypnotoxic and 1 Virbank is the correct play because EVERYONE will run Virbank, and if they run 3 Hypnotoxic and 2 Virbank, you will get things going faster.
So:
-1 Virbank City Gym
+1 Hypnotoxic Laser
Click to expand...

If you're right, and that's how the metagame evolves, then yes, that is a good idea. However, there are three (four if Tropical Beach is actually used enough to count) other good stadiums, Skyarrow Bridge, Aspertia City Gym and Plasma Frigate. Virbank is good, very good, but I'm not sure it's quite good enough to stop all usage of these.
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers Post Plasma Storm

3enhance hammer for sure especially with the new one coming out also ther are dces prisms and blends
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers Post Plasma Storm

AlexanderTheAwesome said:
3enhance hammer for sure especially with the new one coming out also ther are dces prisms and blends
Click to expand...
What would you suggest taking out for it? Should I just make the hammers 3/3?
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers Post Plasma Storm

I suggest you keep the hammer split at 4/2 (Crushing/Enhanced), since there will be some Darkrai decks aroudn which do not run any special energy cards, it's too much of a risk to play with 3 'dead' cards against a deck that'll be at least tier 2.
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers (Post Plasma Storm)

So, what I'm getting from these is that the item line is more or less fine. Depending on how the metagame evolves there may be slight changes, but it's mostly good. But who should the alternate attacker be, Mewtwo or Bouffalant? And leave Sigilyph considerations out, I don't think he's that big of a threat when Hypnotoxic Laser + Virbank can ko it if it stays in over one turn. I want to know which one will complement both Darkrai's Night Spear damage and the Hypnotoxic Laser effects and help during most matchups.

Edit: -1 DCE +1 Hypnotoxin
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers (Post Plasma Storm)

Bump? I'm going with mewtwo unless someone thinks otherwise.
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers (Post Plasma Storm)

Mewtwo is a good card, if you're going to use it, watch out for Sigilyph :)
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers (Post Plasma Storm)

It seems to me that one of the failings of this deck is Landorous. Try maybe adding some Plasma energy and Plasma Frigate to remove the Fighting weakness from Darkrai.
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers (Post Plasma Storm)

Try to put a keldeo in it then you will not have to waste energy attachments when they try and catcher stall you.
 
RE: Darkrai/ToxicHammers (Post Plasma Storm)

Keldeo will be added once the tins come out, I have a feeling nearly every deck will run at least a copy. As for plasma frigate, I don't think so. This deck likes having Virbank City up, and really, Landorus is a threat, but not a completely overhaul your deck level of threat. This deck usually can get a turn 2 Night Spear off, so it can keep up with landorus, especially if Virbank, Lasers, and hammers are taken into account.
Minor changes added since we didn't end up getting Ghestis.
 
Looking at it (I run Hammers as well) I believe I can make some adjustments.

-1 Bouffalant

Bouffalant was used to have an uneven prize trade with your opponent. I 2HKO you, you 2HKO me, I lose 1 prize, you lose 2 prizes is the principle. However, with Hypnotoxic it is very simple to OHKO Bouffalant.

+1 Sableye

It's Hammers, Sableye is needed to get back items.

-2 Mewtwo EX

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Mewtwo EX in this deck. You use Mewtwo as a Mewtwo counter, I get this, but I feel that you don't really need Mewtwo in this deck to counter it. Darkrai can 2HKO it, Mewtwo 2HKO's it, you probably have another Darkrai ready to go. (You can power up attackers easily)

-1 Skyla
+3 Bianca

You need more Draw Supports. Only 9? (w/ RR). Consistency must be boosted, and in this deck I feel that you need at least 12 (14 is optimal) to not get any supporter droughts.

-2 DCE
+2 Dark
-1 Crushing Hammer
-1 Energy Switch
+1 Dark Patch
+1 Ultra Ball

Without Mewtwo or Bouff, I dont think you need DCE. So, make it 2 Darks. I added 1 Dark Patch and 1 Ultra Ball because Ultra Ball gives you the means to energy accel with Patch. Since against some decks you need to play as if you are running Speed Darkrai (cough cough Keldeo cough cough) you want good energy accel. T2 Darkrai vs Keldeo is normally how you beat the matchup, not by Hammerspam.

Those would be my suggestions, feel free to take them or leave them.
 
Just coming to check on my deck when I hear I can go to states, and look here, a nice bit of feedback. Thanks :)

Point acknowledged about bouffalant, I didn't account my opponent playing lasers for some reason. That was kinda dumb of me.
I'd like another sableye, but I was also really considering a single keldeoEX once the tin promos come out (don't feel like dropping 30-60 $ more on this deck). It virtually eliminates catcher stall and the threat of opposing lasers. Thoughts on that?

I'm hesitating on dropping the mewtwos. It may lower consistency, but mewtwo wins games. I'll test, because I do want to get this as consistent as possible, but I don't know if dropping best pokemon is the best way to do it.

I hate Bianca. No, that's not true, I don't hate Bianca. I just really, really, really dislike her. My hand is never smaller then 3 unless I just got an amazing turn, and usually that ends with a Juniper. Maybe adding some Cheren is something I'd consider, but Bianca is just, uhh. I'd even be more willing to try Colress then Bianca.
Dropping the sklya count also bugs me. I know people say that skyla is just to grab a useful supporter, but if you use it to pull up the computer search turn 1, you've just sped up so much.

That's the only point I'm going to be that negative on, I promise.

If I do take out the mewtwos, I'll defiantly drop the DCEs, and those other two changes make sense without mewtwo. It's just the question of can I psychologically stand not having that mewtwo out in my deck. Like I've said before, if not in this thread then in others, I love options. Even dumb situational ones. So losing a smart universal one will be hard for me, even if it's the right thing to do.

I'd also really like an out for Plasma Klinklang decks if at all possible, do you have a way of dealing with those?

TL;DR
I'll think about it. What do you think about adding a keldeo, and how would you handle PlasmaKlang?
 
You can run Cheren instead of Bianca if you prefer.
For Keldeo EX, I would say staple with Hypnotoxic Laser rampant.
For PlasmaKlang, Sableye 3HKO's it with 1 Energy+Dark Claw+Virbank+PHB, which isn't too bad. You also can spam PHB's.
Hammerspamming works great vs the special energy varient (Shift Gear+Plasma) and can be decent against the other varient, but I highly recommend just sticking with Sableye. Knock out the Klinklang(s) then knock out the attackers and any Klinks.
 
Diet said:
For PlasmaKlang, Sableye 3HKO's it with 1 Energy+Dark Claw+Virbank+PHB, which isn't too bad. You also can spam PHB's.
Click to expand...

And if they run 1/2 Max Potion (like some builds that I've seen, some have also included the Shift Gear Klinklang as well), you can pretty much say GG if you try this strategy. >_>

Honestly, spamming Hammers is pretty much great against either of the decks. That's only if T2 Darkrai isn't able to run train (which it usually isn't if they play down 2 Klinks).

Since you run 9 Pokemon, a V-Create Victini is not a bad choice at all. It may require some shifting of the deck to fit it in along with 1/2 Fire Energy and possibly a Super Rod but it's easier to get out with a full Bench than some people think if you're benching everything as soon as you have it. Hit it at the right time and you can probably wipe out a lot of Energy and then follow up with KOing the Plasma Klinklang.

dmaster out.
 
@dmaster Forgot that Klinklang doesn't run any sort of energy accel or runs cards (typically) that get energy from discard. =/
Yeah, Hammerspam is a good strategy vs Klinklang and you can attempt to KO the PS Klinklang with Sableye (but not recommended).
 
Violetwisp said:
I'd also really like an out for Plasma Klinklang decks if at all possible, do you have a way of dealing with those?

...how would you handle PlasmaKlang?
Click to expand...

No worries. Your deck has significant advantages over Klinklang:
1) KK is slow to setup;
2) You can easily KO the Klinks before your opponent sets up - NO issues from that point on;
3) After you poison-KO the PS Klinklang (if he/she does manage to get 1 into play), your Darkrai EX cleans up;
4) The deck has no energy-attachment acceleration (versus your Dark Patch). The KK player can only attach 1 energy per turn;
5) You can deny what energy is attached with your Hammers; and
6) You can posion the KK Poké to which they have no easy counter.

I'd say your odds of beating KK is 80-20, IMHO.
 
Ok, feeling less terrified of the Klinklang matchup.
Minor changes
-1 Mewtwo
-2 DCE
One extra space I didn't fill (I swear, I'm going to have to triple count before making my IRL decks)

+1 Sableye
+1 Crushing Hammer
+1 Ultra Ball
+1 Darkness energy

I'd love it if I had time to start testing this a lot immediately, but I don't until at least Saturday, so I'll start testing then.
 
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