Discussion Deck Engines - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

bbninjas

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In PTCG, there are many deck engines. Most people opt for the most standard Sycamore/Juniper || N || Colress || VS Seeker line up... but what about the others out there? Although the standard engine may be the most efficient, is it really the best for your deck?
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Engines

Standard Deck Engine:

  • 4 Professor Sycamore
  • 4 N
  • 1-3 Colress
  • 0-3 Skyla || Korrina
  • 2 Lysandre
  • 2-3 VS Seeker
  • 3-4 Ultra Ball
  • 1 Computer Search

This is a norm deck engine. Most people know how this deck engine works:
-You hope you start of with a draw supporter in your hand
-You use it, and basically hope you get a draw supporter/VS Seeker in your next hand.

Some decks opt out Ultra Ball for a specialist Pokemon searcher, such as Dive or Plasma Ball, or run a 3 Ultra Ball and 2 Repeat Ball line.

I find the main benefit of this engine the consistency. With the amount of supporters included, you often are able to refresh your hand easily. Ning your opponent's hand, disrupting it, is also really beneficial and can be game changing.

A notable disadvantage of this engine is that Juniper/Sycamore is really the only card you want to draw in your first hand. N refreshes your opponent's hand (generally not a good thing Turn 1), Colress draws low amounts of cards (normally) turn 1/2, and VS Seeker is primarily useless until a supporter is used.

tl;dr
  • + Consistent
  • + Possible disruption
  • - Most of the supporters are not wanted on the first hand

Budget/XY-on Deck Engine
  • 4 Professor Sycamore
  • 4 Professor Birch's Observations
  • 1-3 Shauna
  • 0-3 Korrina
  • 2 Lysandre
  • 2-3 VS Seeker
  • 3 Ultra Ball

This deck engine works in the same way as the Standard Engine, and although is less superior, it is normally cheaper for someone starting out competitively.

Although this deck is a bit of a downgrade, Professor Birch's Observations can be ideal. Flipping a heads on this card can be really beneficial, as you are not required to discard anything. There is also less situational cards like N and Colress, making the starting hands of these decks more viable.

The primary disadvantage of this engine is the lower draw power. Colress is normally superior due to drawing up to 10 cards. N has the disruption, and is still a nice card for refreshing (more than Shauna, and often more than Birch), especially when a player is behind on prizes.

tl;dr
  • + Consistent
  • + Have better starting hands (in theory)
  • - Less draw
  • - Can be luck based

Cancer Deck Engine:
  • 1 Jirachi-EX
  • 4 Professor Sycamore
  • 1 Lysandre's Trump Card
  • 4 Random Receiver
  • 4 Roller Skates and/or 4 Acro Bike
  • 3-4 Bicycle
  • 4 Ultra Ball
  • 3 Pokemon Catcher
  • 4 VS Seeker

Personally, this is one of my favourite deck engines (minus the Jirachi-EX). The primary basis is to burn through your resources using Juniper, Skates and Bikes. With Random Receiver and VS Seeker (and Jirachi if chosen), you can find a Juniper pretty easily in your deck, allowing for a really quick and consistent engine. Once you burn through your resources, you can Trump Card your discard back in, and restart.

A main gimmick of this engine is the lack of supporters. This Juniper-based deck can't contain anymore supporters, as they get in the way of a Random Receiver.

The main advantage of this engine is how quickly it moves. Unless you get a really, really dead draw, you should always have that Juniper, and with the abundance of draw cards, you burn through your deck nicely. This allows you to always get out those tools and cards you need.

This type of engine has a few primary disadvantages. Firstly, Toad. The item lock can be devastating, although there are ways around it. Try and use most of your items Turn 1, and anticipate a lock the following turn. Secondly, the rate of discard. Much of the engine requires hefty discard, so if your deck needs a lot of gimmicks and/or cards to function, don't use it. Care also needs to be taken in case of a prized Trump Card. Thirdly, the space required is hug - around 10 more cards than an average deck.

Also, although not highly important, this engine uses a lot of cards that are anticipated to be going out of format, unless a reprint occurs.

tl;dr
  • + Pretty consistent
  • + Extremely fast
  • - Unusable after the next format
  • - Can't have many gimmicks due to discard
  • - Can't add any extra supporters
  • - Easily Toad-locked
  • - Hugely devastating with a bad hand, and can cause a loss to deck-out if Trump Card is prized.


Pokemon Drawers

There are three main types of Pokemon that provide nice draw power.

Slurpuff PHF
69-slurpuff.jpg

Tasting. Drawing an extra card a turn. Awesome! What makes this card even better is that it stacks. You can have 2/3 on the bench, and end up drawing 2/3 each turn. Even better, you can promote a float-stoned Slurpuff to the active on KO, and draw yet another card!

Obviously, the main problem on Slurpuff would be that it takes up bench space. Many decks can't utilise this guy as they need bench space. Nevertheless, Toad is a common companion with this thing.

tl;dr
  • + 2-3 Extra cards every turn for nearly free
  • + Ability stacks
  • - Takes up 4+ deck space (generally 8)
  • - Blocked by Garbodor
  • - Needs setup and bench space

Swampert AT
Swampert-Primal-Clash-36.jpg

If you can get this guy set up, you have both a Computer Search and a decent attacker. Searching your deck for any card and putting it at the top of your deck is amazing, and with 3 water energy piled on (and taking only two turns to set up) this thing can be hitting for huge 130s (or even 180s with band and 4 [W] energy). With Dive Ball for support, this drawer can appear really quickly in water decks.

Nevertheless, Toad really slows down getting this Pokemon out, since Swampert relies on both Rare Candy and Dive Ball for consistency. This guy also needs the bench space, although when you consider Swampert's attack, this problem sorta nullifies!

tl;dr
  • + A free computer search
  • + A possible (and decent) attacker
  • + Ability stacks
  • - Blocked by Garbodor
  • - Weaken by Item lock
  • - Needs setup and bench space

Electrode PLF
33-electrode.jpgg

This is a basically a Bicycle. Drawing cards to four can be huge, especially when coupled with other engines. Once again, this card falls to Garbodor, and requires the space. It is going out of format, however.

tl;dr
  • + A replenishing bicycle
  • + Ability stacks
  • - Takes up 4+ deck space (generally 8)
  • - Blocked by Garbodor
  • - Going out of format
  • - Needs setup and bench space



So, which engine do you like? Is there any cards that you prefer to use more of, over another (like Skates over Bicycle)? Is there any other engines you find really prominent?
 
Great post!

I quite like an engine that uses Jirachi, VS Seeker and Battle Compressor to the fullest extent. I often play decks that draw energy from the discard so Battle Compressor plays two roles. If you want you can run slightly thinner lines of staples and have a few more situational trainers and it is still okay, or you can run standard lines and be super consistent.

Something like-

Jirachi EX
4 Ultraballs
2-3 Battle Compressor
4 VS Seeker
3-4 Sycamore
3-4 N
1 Colress

Just so many routes to a trainer

- Drawing the trainer
- Playing VS seeker
- Playing Jirachi
- Ultraballing for Jirachi
- Discarding with battle compressor then playing Jirachi

And I have to say that I just love Battle Compressor as part of the engine. If you draw it T1 you can discard some energy and a trainer- "activating" your VS seeekers. If you get it a little later you can discard more energy, thin your deck, take out cards that you don't need for the matchup. The fact you are likely to have thinned your deck several times coming into the midgame means you tend to draw so well too. Lots of good topdecks.
 
Just wondering, but there used to be a card called Twins i think that people would use that was similar to teammates. I think a while back there was a tournament engine that would run 4 Twins just because then you can use one of those setup pokemon such as Manaphy, Tropius etc and then get your important cards the next turn after it had done its job and gotten knocked out. Maybe the same potential could be found with teammates, running 4 of them in your engine along with the sacrifice pokemon to ensure the powerful turn 2/3 where you're likely to get all of the cards you need for a great setup?
 
Pipotchi said:
Just wondering, but there used to be a card called Twins i think that people would use that was similar to teammates. I think a while back there was a tournament engine that would run 4 Twins just because then you can use one of those setup pokemon such as Manaphy, Tropius etc and then get your important cards the next turn after it had done its job and gotten knocked out. Maybe the same potential could be found with teammates, running 4 of them in your engine along with the sacrifice pokemon to ensure the powerful turn 2/3 where you're likely to get all of the cards you need for a great setup?

I believe that Robo Substitutes actually activate Teammates, and you don't even lose a prize. Maybe it could be better?
 
The teammates engine is great, especially in conjunction with Stage 2's (Particularly Swampert). Turn 1 (or turn 2 if you go first) use a support Pokemon like Emolga or switch to a Robo Substitute, get out at least 1 basic you want to evolve, then as soon as something is knocked out, Teammates gets you a Rare Candy and the Stage 2. With Swampert, out, when you know something is going to be KO'd next turn, you can set your next card up to be a Teammates to keep getting you whatever you need.
 
Does anyone, by any chance, have a deck list for a Teammates-based engine?
 
bbninjas said:
Does anyone, by any chance, have a deck list for a Teammates-based engine?

Here's a rough skeleton list:

x1 Jirachi EX
x4 Teammates
x4 N
x1 Lysandre's Trump Card
x1 Computer Search
x4 VS Seeker
x3-4 Robo-Sub


Maybe someone could find one online or edit this one?
 
I'm sure this is far from perfect, but this is my engine for Empoleon/Swampert:

3x Teammates
4x Skyla (Those two can probably be swapped around)
4x N
3x Birch
1x Trump Card
1x Lysandre
2x VS Seeker
4x Dive Ball
1x Computer Search

It works well with either Skyla or Teammates on Turn 2, since Skyla can grab a Rare Candy or Dive Ball if you have the opposite part already, and Teammates can grab both. So N and Birch are fine to use on Turn 1 if you don't have a Skyla or Teammates already. I'm sure it's much more effective for Stage 2 decks than Basic/Stage 1 decks.

Being two separate Stage 2's, the list is quite full, and doesn't have room for the Robo Subs. But it does have two Emolga.
 
thood said:
bbninjas said:
Does anyone, by any chance, have a deck list for a Teammates-based engine?

Here's a rough skeleton list:

x1 Jirachi EX
x4 Teammates
x4 N
x1 Lysandre's Trump Card
x1 Computer Search
x4 VS Seeker
x3-4 Robo-Sub


Maybe someone could find one online or edit this one?
Why wouldn't you include a Professor Juniper/Sycamore, and instead N? Maybe a 1 or 2 of Skyla may be needed to get out robo subs.

CruelBear said:
I'm sure this is far from perfect, but this is my engine for Empoleon/Swampert:

3x Teammates
4x Skyla (Those two can probably be swapped around)
4x N
3x Birch
1x Trump Card
1x Lysandre
2x VS Seeker
4x Dive Ball
1x Computer Search

It works well with either Skyla or Teammates on Turn 2, since Skyla can grab a Rare Candy or Dive Ball if you have the opposite part already, and Teammates can grab both. So N and Birch are fine to use on Turn 1 if you don't have a Skyla or Teammates already. I'm sure it's much more effective for Stage 2 decks than Basic/Stage 1 decks.

Being two separate Stage 2's, the list is quite full, and doesn't have room for the Robo Subs. But it does have two Emolga.

Maybe the deck list needs less Skyla and maybe one less Birch? Maybe 2 Skyla and 2 Birch, and then that would leave nice room for subs?
 
bbninjas said:
CruelBear said:
I'm sure this is far from perfect, but this is my engine for Empoleon/Swampert:

3x Teammates
4x Skyla (Those two can probably be swapped around)
4x N
3x Birch
1x Trump Card
1x Lysandre
2x VS Seeker
4x Dive Ball
1x Computer Search

It works well with either Skyla or Teammates on Turn 2, since Skyla can grab a Rare Candy or Dive Ball if you have the opposite part already, and Teammates can grab both. So N and Birch are fine to use on Turn 1 if you don't have a Skyla or Teammates already. I'm sure it's much more effective for Stage 2 decks than Basic/Stage 1 decks.

Being two separate Stage 2's, the list is quite full, and doesn't have room for the Robo Subs. But it does have two Emolga.

Maybe the deck list needs less Skyla and maybe one less Birch? Maybe 2 Skyla and 2 Birch, and then that would leave nice room for subs?

It's funny you should say that. I actually just took out a Birch and a Skyla, though for 1 Robo Sub and 1 more Teammates. The 1 Robo Sub did actually help though. Let me try it with a list that has a bit more room for Robo Subs and such.
 
Typically, the standard deck engine is the way I go, but with a few variations depending on the deck.

-If the deck is a stage 2 deck, I use less Sycamore/Juniper and more Shuffle and Draw (Colress/Birch).
-For EX heavy decks, I add a Xerosic to take care of head ringer.
-1 or 2 teammates usually serve me well. I'll use more depending on how many EXes I'm using. Also, some decks (particularly those with cheap tech attackers) can max out.
-For any deck that uses Battle Compressor, I make sure to use at least 3 (sometimes 4) VS Seeker.
-Sometimes I'll have Lysandre's Trump Card (1 of). You never know when that can help you out.

Lastly, there's a fighting engine I use.

4 Korrina
2 Ultra Ball
1 Computer Search
4 Juniper/Sycamore
4 N
1 Colress
2 VS Seeker
2 Lysandre.
2 Switch
1 Escape Rope

Optional
1 Professors Letter
1 Bicycle
1 Xerosic
1 Trump Card

Korrina is the real star of fighting decks since it can cover so much ground with just 4 spots. I try to capitalize on that.
 
Well, there's the Crash and Recycle engine I think is more better for XY-on rotation:

4 Professor Sycamore
3-4 Shauna
1-2 Professor Birch's Observations
1-2 Teammates
2 Lysandre
3 VS Seeker
1 Lysandre's Trump Card
3 Acro Bike
4 Ultra Ball
2 Escape Rope

Here, you're basically burning resources and adjusting the needs accordingly. However, the downside is that it involves a lot of shuffles and luck plus having 1 Trump Card is rather tight so 2 is probably better just in case.
 
bbninjas said:
thood said:
Here's a rough skeleton list:

x1 Jirachi EX
x4 Teammates
x4 N
x1 Lysandre's Trump Card
x1 Computer Search
x4 VS Seeker
x3-4 Robo-Sub


Maybe someone could find one online or edit this one?
Why wouldn't you include a Professor Juniper/Sycamore, and instead N? Maybe a 1 or 2 of Skyla may be needed to get out robo subs.

You can run Sycamore if you see that fit. The list I offered was a mere skeleton, meaning it's the basic outline of cards you NEED to run. The reason you would want N in a Teammates engine is because of the fact that the core of your engine (Teammates) relies on your Pokemon getting Knocked Out. Sure you can use Robo-Sub, but sometimes you'll need to let a Pokemon be knocked out, in which N will be a great card, as more often than not, your opponent will have an early prize lead on you if your using this engine.
 
Toro googleo said:
Well, there's the Crash and Recycle engine I think is more better for XY-on rotation:

4 Professor Sycamore
3-4 Shauna
1-2 Professor Birch's Observations
1-2 Teammates
2 Lysandre
3 VS Seeker
1 Lysandre's Trump Card
3 Acro Bike
4 Ultra Ball
2 Escape Rope

Here, you're basically burning resources and adjusting the needs accordingly. However, the downside is that it involves a lot of shuffles and luck plus having 1 Trump Card is rather tight so 2 is probably better just in case.
Personally, I would run 4 VS Seeker, 4 Acro Bike, 4 Skates and 2 Teammates for maximum deck burn.
The Trump Card problem isn't something too important. I run I Trump Card relying deck that uses only 1, but I find I rarely ever deck out, at least because its prized. More often it is because I don't check my deck for the last VS Seeker (which ends up prized), or I Juniper over Trump in the wrong situations...
 
I'm definitely going to have to give these engines a try, especially with a few deck ideas that I have coming up. It might be worth mentioning stuff like Scorched Earth, though; that gives a decent amount of acceleration for both Fighting and Fire decks, plus Landorus FuF can accelerate off it easily. You're basically turning a Professor's Letter into a +2 hand, so it's worth mentioning at least.

I'll try to build a skeleton later tonight, after I get done with my geometry/chem homework.
 
I do know that in the area I am, there is the allowance of Shiftry drawers from FF. And they kill my water deck ;;
 
I have found a pretty good draw support line for decks with built in draw power. Something like Shiftry or Empoleon.

Shiftry Draw Engine:
2 Sycamore
1 N
1 Colress
1 Shauna
1 Cheren
3 Skyla
2 Fan Club
1 Teammates
1 Trump Card
3 VS Seeker
3 Ultra Ball
1 Jirachi
2 Tropius
1 Comp Search
2 Energy Retrieval
1 Professor's Letter
7 Grass Energy

It seems like a really slim line of supporters. But some games i end up with about 30 cards in hand and safe from decking out with Trump Card. Though i still want to play around with teammates a little more. Idk how many i want to run yet.
 
If you mean in the deck. I play a 4-1-4 for the most part. Though i took out the middle step to try out teammates. If you mean how many players. Just me at my league. Im the only one who plays grass.
 
Does anyone have a good engine for Spirit Link/Mega Evolution-based decks? I've been experimenting with a lot of those and I think it would be a good thing to have a good skeleton list for that.
 
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