Deck Originality

[HaunterX6]

I know this is a somewhat ongoing topic for most people, but, i felt like discussing this.

ok, so, this past weekend, i went to nationals (North Carolina). had an ok time, didnt win or anything, though. But anyways, i noticed literally DOZENS of people using the same, repetitive decks. particularly, BLS and Queendom. Naturally, the people who made it to the finals were mostly all people who were playing the same, unoriginal decks.

Now, i will admit, these decks are good. Very Good indeed. But, i feel that simply copying a deck thats good, and copying every little aspect of deck, is just.. pointless. Winning with a BLS deck doesnt necessarily prove that you're a good player; it proves that you were able to obtain the cards to make that deck, and uise somebody elses combo and deck ideas to win.

Now, im not saying EVERYONE should have to come up with their own ideas 100% or anything. i mean, i've used quite a few popular combos and strategies myself for some decks. but the difference is, i made it my own. you know, added and took out some things, customized them to better fit MY playing style. I just think theres a lack of honor in winning a huge tournament with a deck that you didnt even come up with, or, atleast modify. I try my best to create my own strategies, and heck, most of the time, theyre not even that great. but, thats what makes this game fun to me. its not winning or losing, its about creating your own decks, playing them for fun, seeing how well they do. I put a LOT of time and effort into creating my decks, and going out of my way to try and use things nobody has thought of using, and to make combos no one would expect to see- even use cards that nobody uses much anymore. I don't expect to always win, or, even win a tournament with them, really. when and if they do, thats awesome- it shows that i am creative enough to pull off winning decks, due to myself, and my own thought processes.

But, to see these unoriginal people, coming in, and cleaning out these tournaments, with deck ideas they didnt come up with.. it just, bothers me. To me, its like, ruining the game for everyone else. "Yeah, you won the tournament with a BLS deck. Congratulations on being unoriginal, and winning thanks to someone elses ideas."

Sorry if I'm ranting. I could honestly care less if i win or lose. It's all about the fun, and creativity for me. That's why i play this game, and thats why i love it so much. But, to go to a nationals tournament, and face the same 2-3 decks, over and over and over through all the rounds.. its just, discouraging, and boring. I don't CARE how good and broken the BLS and Queendom decks are- quite frankly, i'm sick of playing against them. not because they kick my butt, but because theyre boring. everyone knows what to expect from them by now. There's no kind of suprise, or element of the game with them. Or, any other repetitively copied decks.

Again, sorry I'm ranting, i'm just annoyed with this. Anyone feel the same way? or, disagree? Post your opinion. I just wanna know if anyone is as sick of the unoriginality in the game right now as i am.

 

[Heavenly Spoon]

at my regionals, it was queendom and dragtrode, can't people be original, I 'd rather be 5th (I was) with an original deck then 1st with a deck from internet.

My deck is perfect, I found the...website myself ... and I copied the entire deck, I didn't add anything myself
oh, I'm so good, I can find a site with a decklist, I'm better then you all cause I have good cards and internet

oh, that's real nice, that's so cool, man, where's the originality

worlds: only queendom, dragtrode, LBS and some trainers from low population countries

 

[GODZILLA]

You're right. I came in 9th with my Tyranical Power deck and I was the ONLY person at the entire Regionals(SE) playing Tyranitar ex. The only losses were from LBS, but I did very well against them. I think my deck shows a lot of originality.

 

[DocRobot_K-176]

I agree with HaunterX6. Fighting the same decks over and over again gets boring; I want to fight many different kinds of decks, rather than decks that someone else made. Playing with someone else's deck does not demonstrate mastery of the game- building your own deck, figuring out your own combos, and learning how to anticipate your opponents' moves is what the game is all about. That is why I usually keep my decks secret until events, because if it is widely sucessful, I know other people copy it, no matter how hard I would try to request that they didn't.

I spend lots of time building and testing my decks. All an archetype player has to do is find a decklist online, get some experience playing the deck, and they are set. For many of them, they care more about winning than demonstrating skill and gaining respect from other players. I don't like it at all.

The other thing I don't like is when I develop my own deck independently, someone else somewhere develops the same combo, the deck becomes archetype, and the people who built the deck independently get scolded for playing archetypes, even though they built the deck themselves. Such was the case of my δ Dragonite and δ Metagross deck. I produced a decklist for it myself and tested it on Apprentice shortly after Delta Species was released. But by the time I got the cards necessary to build the deck, it was already widely popular. Now everyone knows how my deck works, so I am leaving it behind.

Still, I don't understand the hype about LBS. It may set up well and have a lot of power behind it, but it isn't invincible. Sure, it may have placed high at regionals, but there were other decks that won, too.

I'm sure when the format changes, things will get a little more balanced, since Electrode-ex, Blastoise-ex, FrLg Pidgeot, and hopefully EX: DX (Smooth Over) Magcargo will be gone. Queendom, SMP, Dragtrode, ZRE, LBS, and Rock-Lock will be gone. PowDaCham and Meta-Knight will probably stay. I wouldn't be surprised if some more broken decks develop. Shiftry-ex is going to be a pain to deal with.

As you guys can probably tell, this is one of my most vehement opinions. Still, I want to hear from archetype players and their point of view. And I do not hold grudges against all archetype players; just the ones that think that they are superior than everyone else and that all other decks are crap or not worthwhile playing.

 

[GODZILLA]

I came up against 3 LBS decks and lost to 2 of them. Most of people who got into the top 8 didn't even play those decks.  O\/O       <How I feel right now
                  \/\/\/\/

 

[Charizardian]

Well, Pokémon has probably the most archetypes than any other card game, mostly becuase all new cards with all new effects. Anyway, it's mostly because of young players. Now you might be thinking "Where is this guy getting it?" You'll see here.

Okay, there's a guy, we will call him Bob. Bob is a very expereinced player, and is looking at cards from sets. Suddenly Bob sees an incredible unnoticed combo in a recent set. Bob thinks the deck is good, so he runs at his local gym challenge. The Deck Combo gives Bob 1st place, giving it incredible notice at the Gym Challenge. Bob flies to worlds, and wins (Or gets a very high place). This gives the deck major attention. People think it's a decent deck and has fair matchups, so they test it out and see how good it is. They fall in love with it and is doing well, so it becomes another archetype and it becomes playable by thousands.

So as you can see, anything can be ran by other people, because they think all other combos will just be overpowered by this deck =/

 

[GODZILLA]

RE:  Deck Originality

Well, Pokémon has probably the most archetypes than any other card game, mostly becuase all new cards with all new effects. Anyway, it's mostly because of young players. Now you might be thinking "Where is this guy getting it?" You'll see here.

Okay, there's a guy, we will call him Bob. Bob is a very expereinced player, and is looking at cards from sets. Suddenly Bob sees an incredible unnoticed combo in a recent set. Bob thinks the deck is good, so he runs at his local gym challenge. The Deck Combo gives Bob 1st place, giving it incredible notice at the Gym Challenge. Bob  flies to worlds, and wins (Or gets a very high place). This gives the deck major attention. People think it's a decent deck and has fair matchups, so they test it out and see how good it is. They fall in love with it and is doing well, so it becomes another archetype and  it becomes playable by thousands.

So as you can see, anything can be ran by other people, because they think all other combos will just be overpowered by this deck =/

Ahem! LBS hasn't won more than 1 Regionals, hasn't won a Gym Challenge yet, and hasn't been to Worlds yet. Rogue decks are what win tournaments not archetypes. I took 4 prize cards against an LBS deck with a single Tyranitar ex(only Pokemon in play), I had a bad start and the only way they won was with a top decked Lugia ex:/

 

[masterryanx]

I agree 100%. That's why I copy no decks I always try to be original and create something that represents me. In the occasion that I do copy a deck I always change things around enough to make it my own. In my opinion playing with a deck I didn't mmake is plain no fun and neither is playing the same decks over and over again... Yu-Gi-Oh has this problem too only much worse (though it is getting better now that there's a ban list).

 

[GODZILLA]

RE:  Deck Originality

I agree 100%. That's why I copy no decks I always try to be original and create something that represents me. In the occasion that I do copy a deck I always change things around enough to make it my own. In my opinion playing with a deck I didn't mmake is plain no fun and neither is playing the same decks over and over again... Yu-Gi-Oh has this problem too only much worse (though it is getting better now that there's a ban list).

That's what I try to do. If I see a Tyranitar, I'll try as hard as I can to make a deck based around it.

 

[Abhorsen]

I think that this is a very good topic to be raised.

I know that I never play archtypes. I just cant deal with playing the same deck as someone else, it simply annoys me. There have been times of when a set spoiler is released I think of all these decent combos and by the time we actually have our pre-release and I get some of the cards, I read that people are playing it everywhere in USA (as they have their pre-releases before us). That does annoy me a little.

At our States, there were only 2 or 3 original decks there (mine being 1), the rest were Archtype. Dustox ex won, 2nd was LBS, 3rd was Mercury varient. I also saw a few SMP and 1 or 2 Metanites. This part of the game is what makes it boring. I read everywhere, here and on other forums, of people scrambling to get Lugia ex's, Metagross-d's and anything else that they here is good. Most of the time it leads me to 2 conclusions.
1: That the person has very poor deck building skills and needs someone else's "good" deck to win. 99% of the time it is an archtype which they scab off the net somewhere.
2: Or, That person is a 'Mercenary'. Someone who purposely plays the game to win and sell the prizes for money, etc. They normally play the best archtype out there and have no care for the game or its players.
Dont get me wrong, I have SEEN alot of mercenary players out there and they shouldnt be playing. It saddens me to see the dedicated players losing to people who dont care about the game.

I will always like playing something fun, any outrageous combo that I see that has even the smallest amount of potential i'll try, even if it does lose I dont care since it was fun. The most enjoyable part is having an original deck win versing archtypes, it makes me feel that the common decks arent the only good thing out there.
And like DocRobot said, I always keep my combos and decks secret from the internet or scabbing friends, mainly because if it goes well then it's stolen and everyone starts playing it. That's why I dont post any of my combos on here. I posted a few ages ago at the restart of the forum and a few people loved the combo so much they wanted to play it, when it was released.

The Pokemon TCG SHOULD be fun, but with all the archtypes around, it ISNT fun. It's just plain boring to see everyone playing the same deck and it makes me feel quite annoyed and angry sometimes.

 

[GODZILLA]

RE:  Deck Originality

I think that this is a very good topic to be raised.

I know that I never play archtypes. I just cant deal with playing the same deck as someone else, it simply annoys me. There have been times of when a set spoiler is released I think of all these decent combos and by the time we actually have our pre-release and I get some of the cards, I read that people are playing it everywhere in USA (as they have their pre-releases before us). That does annoy me a little.

At our States, there were only 2 or 3 original decks there (mine being 1), the rest were Archtype. Dustox ex won, 2nd was LBS, 3rd was Mercury varient. I also saw a few SMP and 1 or 2 Metanites. This part of the game is what makes it boring. I read everywhere, here and on other forums, of people scrambling to get Lugia ex's, Metagross-d's and anything else that they here is good. Most of the time it leads me to 2 conclusions.
1: That the person has very poor deck building skills and needs someone else's "good" deck to win. 99% of the time it is an archtype which they scab off the net somewhere.
2: Or, That person is a 'Mercenary'. Someone who purposely plays the game to win and sell the prizes for money, etc. They normally play the best archtype out there and have no care for the game or its players.
Dont get me wrong, I have SEEN alot of mercenary players out there and they shouldnt be playing. It saddens me to see the dedicated players losing to people who dont care about the game.

I will always like playing something fun, any outrageous combo that I see that has even the smallest amount of potential i'll try, even if it does lose I dont care since it was fun. The most enjoyable part is having an original deck win versing archtypes, it makes me feel that the common decks arent the only good thing out there.
And like DocRobot said, I always keep my combos and decks secret from the internet or scabbing friends, mainly because if it goes well then it's stolen and everyone starts playing it. That's why I dont post any of my combos on here. I posted a few ages ago at the restart of the forum and a few people loved the combo so much they wanted to play it, when it was released.

The Pokemon TCG SHOULD be fun, but with all the archtypes around, it ISNT fun. It's just plain boring to see everyone playing the same deck and it makes me feel quite annoyed and angry sometimes.

It's fun to beat those archetypes and make them look like fools

 

[HaunterX6]

wow. glad to see so many people feel the same way as i do.

But, as someone mentioned earlier, it IS gonna be good when the sets rotate out, so no more of these overly-used cards, like pidgeot. it saddens me to see a lot of my favorites go, though. like Venusaur EX, for example.

Wish there was some kind of way to keep SO many people from using the same decks. i mean, i wouldnt mind facing a queendom and a BLS deck every once in awhile. but when i go to a tournament, and face nothing BUT archetype decks, it ticks me off, and ruins the fun of it all. theres nothing fun about playing the same thing 6 times in a row, win or lose. Wish there was some way to limit how many kinds of a deck could be played in a tournament. like, they had to register their decks, and the first 3 BLS decks registered could be played. anything after that had to use another deck.

i know, its not gonna happen. but, it would be nice.

 

[Abhorsen]

Yes, the rotating out of sets will make a lot of decks fall apart but will also cancel the wider range of originality. At least there wont be LBS anymore, (since there's no Blastoise ex), Zapturndos, ZRE, Queendom, RockLock, Dragtrode, etc. Still annoys me that Metanite is still around, same with Dustox ex. Maybe with the release of HP we'll see more original decks appear everywhere as there is alot of variety with most of the HP (and MC) cards.

 

[bass_forte]

What kinda ticks me off is when through spoilers, I find a combo I really like, build a deck list for it, etc. Set comes out, 2 days later, it's an archetype. Me and Elevandar did that with Flariados, and my brother did that with Dragtode... and of course it makes us look like total n00bs, even though we copied no-one.

I don't go to league, so I barely see any decks... and barely ever see archetypes, so meh. I'd say that if everyone decided to play archetypes, people would get bored very quickly, and the game would die.

 

[DocRobot_K-176]

When our league (not technically a league anymore) goes to major tournaments, when we practice right before the event begins, we practice using decoy decks, because there are usually several players prowling around, looking at what decks people are playing. My retired Meta-Knight deck will probably become a decoy deck.

I like pre-releases because there are no decks to copy, due to the fact that cards pulled from booster packs are random. I almost always go 1-4 due to my bad luck, but I still enjoy them.

For a while, I considered actually becoming a strategist here at PokéBeach. I quickly realized that it would involve me rating cards that I don't approve of using, and giving away some of my strategy with the cards that aren't used frequently, so I decided not to become one.

I see the anti-archetype arguement paralleling the anti-legendary arguement in the GB games. The legendaries are used frequently and are overpowered, in much the same way as archetypes in the TCG. I used to play both from the release of RBY to GSC. Afterwards, I realized that winning alone was not giving me satisfaction for playing the game. It occurred to me that the matches that I enjoyed the most were not the ones where I defeated my opponent before they could draw a prize (or KO one of my monsters in the GB), but instead, matches that were uncertain, on the edge of victory and defeat.

 

[HaunterX6]

^ agreed.

as a matter of fact, i traded of a rayquaza in my emerald version to someone in order to get a gastly from FRLG. Why? because as Doc Robot said, the legendaries are too overpowered. theres no satisfaction in winning due to overpowering. instead, im gonna raise that gastly into a haunter or a gengar, teach it my favorite moves, and then wreak havoc, with an uncommon-type pokemon.

Back to the TCG though. i agree with the whole 'not playing your main deck at a big tournament' thing, cause, i have had a few people try and copy my decks before. Luckily, most of my decks are EXTREMELY technical, and require a lot of thought and skill to pull off. so, the few times my decks were copied, the kids who did so weren't able to pull them off. i find that by using combos that require a lot to pull off, it keeps these n00bs from copying them as well. if you play with an insanely strong deck thats easy to pull off, its gonna be copied. if you play with a strong deck, that requires actual thought and skill in order to play, you're a lot less likely to see your deck be copied.

one fine example is my old, now retired, gengar EX deck. used gengar ex, houndooms, and 2 of each mr. mime ex. it required a lot of strategy, but when you got your full set-up, it locked them down. kept them from playing trainers. which added to gengar and mr. mimes attacks. plus, the added cursed stones and all- it was just a brutal little combo. especially used with fieldworkers and copycats.

But, again, decks that are harder to pull off are a lot less copyable.