Decks That Are Likely to Drop Tier Due to XY5

bbninjas

bbninjas

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Now with scans revealed for Japanese XY5, which are very likely candidates for the English Primal Clash set, I think it may be worthwhile predicting if any top tier decks are going to lose their high status due to the future release of XY5.

So what do you think? Are some of the top tiers decks going to drop levels? Remember to explain why and why not!
 
The biggest one is Pyroar. There's so many good Evolutions (including Megas) in the next set that I don't think a deck based around Pyroar will be very good at all. Other than that, Seismitoad will probably drop to Tier 2. All of the new Mega Evolutions are pretty strong against it, and the Evolution decks it used to crush are now getting better support. Don't get me wrong, the deck is still pretty good. I just think there are too many decks that have an easy way of dealing with its weak damage output.

But other than those 2, everything else either gets a good new asset to work with, or has good match ups against some of the new decks. That's what's so great about this new set: so many decks are now viable. Definitely going to be one of the best formats we've had in a long time. :)
 
Even though lots of archetypes will lower in power, I'd say that (almost) every Type is getting a tech benefit specific for their type out of this set.

Water: Undulating Ocean, Dive Ball, Manaphy(sort of. It's meh.)

Fire: Scorching Earth, Blaziken, Torchic

Grass: Sceptile, Illumise(fragile, but helpful)

Lightning: Undulating Ocean, Eelektross/Growth Engine

Psychic: Starmie(cool type advantage attacker)

Fighting: Scorching Earth, Solrock(great with Donphan)

Dark: Nothing that helps dark types. Weakness Policy, I guess, but everything is going to use it.

Metal: Excadrill engine, Shield Energy

Fairy: Wonder Energy, A competent Fairy attacker.


Not counting Pyroar, the deck that's going to take the biggest hits are decks that rely on Dimension Valley, so I think Night March might drop a bit in play. Reason being that so many new Stadiums and Ninetales will make the Stadium war go from an occasion squabble to an absolute war. No Stadium is safe!
 
Yveltal decks aren't losing anything but because everything else gains something it might fall back a bit.
 
Machamp The Champion said:
Other than that, Seismitoad will probably drop to Tier 2. All of the new Mega Evolutions are pretty strong against it, and the Evolution decks it used to crush are now getting better support. Don't get me wrong, the deck is still pretty good. I just think there are too many decks that have an easy way of dealing with its weak damage output.
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Seismitoad also recieves some boosts from the new set. Combine him with two Enhanced Hammer and Crawdaunt in addition to defensive Yveltal tactics. Those Mega Evolution and evolution decks hate item lock decks that have means to obtain control over the battlefield.
 
Dark Espeon said:
Machamp The Champion said:
Other than that, Seismitoad will probably drop to Tier 2. All of the new Mega Evolutions are pretty strong against it, and the Evolution decks it used to crush are now getting better support. Don't get me wrong, the deck is still pretty good. I just think there are too many decks that have an easy way of dealing with its weak damage output.
Click to expand...

Seismitoad also recieves some boosts from the new set. Combine him with two Enhanced Hammer and Crawdaunt in addition to defensive Yveltal tactics. Those Mega Evolution and evolution decks hate item lock decks that have means to obtain control over the battlefield.
Click to expand...

Ah, I forgot about Crawdaunt. That seems like a decent card for Seismitoad. However, I feel like Mega decks don't mind Seismitoad that much. With their ridiculous HP, they can just manually attach to themselves for a while, then out-power Seismitoad easily. And if Seismitoad hits the first Evolution with Quaking Punch/LaserBank, they can evolve into the Mega and get rid of poison.

Evolution decks are still pretty bad against Seismitoad, but Teammates can allow them to set up their Evolutions much easier. Depending on the Evolution, it might be able to KO Seismitoad by itself pretty easily. Some of them might have trouble beating Seismitoad with their slightly slow set up, but I think most of the Stage 2 attackers still have the upper hand.
 
Machamp The Champion said:
Evolution decks are still pretty bad against Seismitoad, but Teammates can allow them to set up their Evolutions much easier. Depending on the Evolution, it might be able to KO Seismitoad by itself pretty easily. Some of them might have trouble beating Seismitoad with their slightly slow set up, but I think most of the Stage 2 attackers still have the upper hand.
Click to expand...

Teammates also works with Seismitoad and could become a stable one to two in several decks. This also includes Pokémon Ex decks. The same holds true for both new balls. Under item lock evolution decks are forced to evolve without candies and search cards. This slows them down a lot and allows Seismitoad to take some ohkos and built another attacker on the bench.

Now also switch Garbodor with well timed Crawdaunt and the decrease in speed could be too much for evolution decks. Not to mention that even a fresh Seismitoad and/or assistance attacker can ohko stage two decks with ease.

I cannot see pure evolution decks to be more dominant than before with this set. This excludes Mega Pokémon which can be considered to be evolutions too. Mega decks became a lot better with the last two sets. Let's face it. With Pyroar and Spirit Link Pokémon Japan wants to lure us into Mega Evolution decks and it works real well. The Primals and M Gardevoir Ex are some of the best cards in this set excluding several trainers and stadium cards.
 
Dark Espeon said:
Machamp The Champion said:
Evolution decks are still pretty bad against Seismitoad, but Teammates can allow them to set up their Evolutions much easier. Depending on the Evolution, it might be able to KO Seismitoad by itself pretty easily. Some of them might have trouble beating Seismitoad with their slightly slow set up, but I think most of the Stage 2 attackers still have the upper hand.
Click to expand...

Teammates also works with Seismitoad and could become a stable one to two in several decks. This also includes Pokémon Ex decks. The same holds true for both new balls. Under item lock evolution decks are forced to evolve without candies and search cards. This slows them down a lot and allows Seismitoad to take some ohkos and built another attacker on the bench.

Now also switch Garbodor with well timed Crawdaunt and the decrease in speed could be too much for evolution decks. Not to mention that even a fresh Seismitoad and/or assistance attacker can ohko stage two decks with ease.

I cannot see pure evolution decks to be more dominant than before with this set. This excludes Mega Pokémon which can be considered to be evolutions too. Mega decks became a lot better with the last two sets. Let's face it. With Pyroar and Spirit Link Pokémon Japan wants to lure us into Mega Evolution decks and it works real well. The Primals and M Gardevoir Ex are some of the best cards in this set excluding several trainers and stadium cards.
Click to expand...

I think straight Seismitoad decks will take a hit due to Omega Barrier, since it blocks almost the entirety of the deck (no Hypnotoxic laser, hammers, flare grunt).
 
Snyder005 said:
I think straight Seismitoad decks will take a hit due to Omega Barrier, since it blocks almost the entirety of the deck (no Hypnotoxic laser, hammers, flare grunt).
Click to expand...

This is where Crauwdant and Az comes in ;).
 
I agree that seismatoad weakens with XY5. Yes, it gets dive ball, but that isn't really making the deck stronger?
XY5 also has silent lab, which is very bad for Seismatoad if they only run 2 Virbank, so it will have to add more virbanks or that new whirlpool stadium that gives 30 hp back to water pokemon, but it still will make the deck worst.
 
Hi folks,

Not entire sure on Seismitoad since it can use Crawdaunt instead of Team Flare Grunt. Omega Barrier sure can hurt but the number of Pokémon with that Ancient Trait are limited. Magcargo and Electrike should not be a problem since Seismitoad can handle them with ease. Rhyperior could be an issue if it can set up under item lock. This leaves us with Primal Groundon Ex. Seimitoad Ex has no answer for him but this also holds for several other decks. The same holds true for the other viable Mega evolutions in this set. They will pose a problem for several decks that are popular at the moment since most of them cannot onshot them but can be oneshot by the Mega evolutions themselves. I assume that VirGen and Pyroar decks will loose the most. VirGen was hurt by Flare Tools and now we also receive Silent Lab. Combe both threats and VirGen should struggle. Pyroar also looses a lot since the set has three viable Mega evolutions that can ohko.
 
GadgetJax said:
Even though lots of archetypes will lower in power, I'd say that (almost) every Type is getting a tech benefit specific for their type out of this set.

Water: Undulating Ocean, Dive Ball, Manaphy(sort of. It's meh.)

Fire: Scorching Earth, Blaziken, Torchic

Grass: Sceptile, Illumise(fragile, but helpful)

Lightning: Undulating Ocean, Eelektross/Growth Engine

Psychic: Starmie(cool type advantage attacker)

Fighting: Scorching Earth, Solrock(great with Donphan)

Dark: Nothing that helps dark types. Weakness Policy, I guess, but everything is going to use it.

Metal: Excadrill engine, Shield Energy

Fairy: Wonder Energy, A competent Fairy attacker.


Not counting Pyroar, the deck that's going to take the biggest hits are decks that rely on Dimension Valley, so I think Night March might drop a bit in play. Reason being that so many new Stadiums and Ninetales will make the Stadium war go from an occasion squabble to an absolute war. No Stadium is safe!
Click to expand...

Hey can you explain what you meant about Starmie??
 
Do you think donphan would drop on its tier? So many water types and water supports here. How about Manectric EX and Yveltal EX? Does it have a partner in the next set? Or would gain anything?
 
GadgetJax said:
Reason being that so many new Stadiums and Ninetales will make the Stadium war go from an occasion squabble to an absolute war. No Stadium is safe!
Click to expand...
Agreed. The new set will impact a variety of decks significantly, IMO. Even VirGen decks will probably most likely NEED to run Stadiums because of Silent Lab.

RedGyarados said:
Do you think donphan would drop on its tier?
Click to expand...
Time will tell, but most likely since Alpha Growth and Omega Barrier can both hinder Donphan decks.

RedGyarados said:
How about Manectric EX and Yveltal EX? Does it have a partner in the next set? Or would gain anything?
Click to expand...
Not sure yet, but I really like Silent Lab right now and think this particular Stadium will be useful.
 
On Yveltal, yeah. I think silent lab would be great. And it's great to have a split stadium. Getting rid of opposing shadow circle.
 
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