Discussion Defenses against Deliquent

poke4trade

poke4trade

Raising Ash
Member
Delinquent – Trainer
Supporter

Discard a Stadium card in play. If you do, your opponent chooses 3 cards from his or her hand and discards them.

You may play only 1 Supporter card during your turn (before your attack).

I think this site has talked much about how to use the card, offensively. What I'm wondering is the defense against it. With item heavy decks in this meta, I feel that the 4X4 seeker and trainers mail might be ending in order to squeeze another supporter or two in for first turn draw support. Ultra ball, I feel will stay at 4 because of shaymin. Otherwise, I could see a lot of the meta changing in decks to defensively play against the card.

I'm wondering, from a defensive perspective, how will you prepare for the possible first turn hand downsize?
Thoughts?
 
If they're going first they would need to play a stadium, red card, and the delinquent card to
make it hurt you. They would also be sacrificing draw support, so it's sort of a big risk on their
part that you don't top deck something useful. Also, I don't see how Trainer's or VS seeker wouldn't
be useful since you may have had to discard a supporter or need to go find one with Trainer's.
Also, some decks like Night March would welcome the discard.

If you go first, it's more of a concern but your opponent would probably need to play and discard his
own stadium since you won't drop it first turn. If you're set up fairly well, they would be feel pressure
to sycamore.

I see this card as more useful late-game when you have a little more freedom with your supporter
and want to slow down your opponent.
 
I think Unown is an extremely cute counterplay especially in decks that play Time Piece / Puzzle (I forgot which one it was). You can play it down then wait until you need to use it. That way you will always have at least four cards in hand. Delinquent doesn't seem insanely strong turn one in a deck that isn't completely dedicated to it.
 
I actually very much agree with Camoclone, Unown is an interesting counter to it that I had not thought of prior to reading his comment. Time puzzle is also an interesting counter play to it, although I still question the viability of that card (only because you need two in your hand to fully utilize it, the effect is certainly crazy).

The simplest answers I can come up with for how to deal with it include: Shaymin Ex and Octillery (delinquent might help you if you have shaymin in your hand because it will allow you to get more off your draw), Sycamore (and VS seeker obviously), maybe bunnelby (to rototiller things back into your deck), playing a vespiquen and/or night march deck (obvious reasons).

Other than that, I am kind of scared of this card and think that it has an extremely strong spot in mill decks. RIP Lyssandre's trump card (jk I hated that card).
 
This could be a nasty addition to Granbull BRT / Trick Coin decks:

XY8_EN_99.png


If they go second, you could potentially have to rely on setting up entirely on the first turn as they can cut your hand out of 6 cards in a single turn.
 
rsoldham said:
If they're going first they would need to play a stadium, red card, and the delinquent card to
make it hurt you. They would also be sacrificing draw support, so it's sort of a big risk on their
part that you don't top deck something useful. Also, I don't see how Trainer's or VS seeker wouldn't
be useful since you may have had to discard a supporter or need to go find one with Trainer's.
Also, some decks like Night March would welcome the discard.

If you go first, it's more of a concern but your opponent would probably need to play and discard his
own stadium since you won't drop it first turn. If you're set up fairly well, they would be feel pressure
to sycamore.

I see this card as more useful late-game when you have a little more freedom with your supporter
and want to slow down your opponent.
Click to expand...

I believe a lot of decks sacrifice draw support and do pretty well: enhance hammer, crushing hammers, and super scoop. I think this will just be another targeted way of denying energy placements and prizes by denying your opponent the ability to play cards via discarding. Based on the current meta, I believe this will be simple enough to achieve by reconstructing decks to limit hand size every turn versus discarding energy and supper scooping. Simply by taking on the philosophy that the opponent only receives as little cards as possible every turn, I believe someone will find a fairly consistent way of achieving that goal. What I'm figuring is that it will either come from a mill or lock deck. Which are not the fun decks to play, or watched be played, but will win a lot of games.

@Camoclone clone I love the idea unown! It is such a great idea for a defensive play. Also, being played with Brigette, makes that card even better. Great Idea!

I wonder if Lucky helmet might see more play? I just thought of that card.
 
I don't see cutting copies of Trainers' Mail and VS Seeker as good ways to defend yourself against your hand being diminished - those are two of the best cards in the game at turning a dead hand into something usable.

T1 Delinquent without Red Card doesn't worry me. I get to pick what I keep and usually that will include some sort of option to get out of a dead hand. T1 Delinquent + Red Card takes a lot of work to pull off, but that could be devastating. You lose your Stadium and in the types of decks that want to play Delinquent, they also tend to want their Stadium in play.

Re: Lucky Helmet - it'd be helpful against lock decks that prefer Delinquent to other Supporters. But if I didn't want it before, I don't think I'd be inclined to add it for this specific circumstance. Personally I think Delinquent is better used in a mill deck and then Lucky Helmet will probably never activate anyway as mill decks don't do damage very often.

Unown is a good play if you're worried about the T1 Delinquent, but if it's a deck focused around the card, they're just going to do it to you again...

Obviously, Octillery is a counter though it requires more setup...

Delinquent is a good card with some good combos available that can make it really tough on you... but the strategies to minimize the odds of that happening are pretty much the same as the strategies to avoid dead hands in the first place. Not sure you have to change too much.

MarshalBry said:
This could be a nasty addition to Granbull BRT / Trick Coin decks:

XY8_EN_99.png


If they go second, you could potentially have to rely on setting up entirely on the first turn as they can cut your hand out of 6 cards in a single turn.
Click to expand...

There's also Malamar XY76 which is more consistent at getting something out of your opponent's hand, though a far weaker attacker. Red Card + Delinquent + Mental Trash would almost certainly empty your opponent's hand though
 
bowlerdude04 said:
Unown is a good play if you're worried about the T1 Delinquent, but if it's a deck focused around the card, they're just going to do it to you again...
Click to expand...
I think you have it backwards lol :p. Unown doesn't do anything turn one but it helps later in the game.
 
Camoclone said:
I think you have it backwards lol :p. Unown doesn't do anything turn one but it helps later in the game.
Click to expand...

Fair point, but what I mean is that it helps if you get them out early and get hit with Delinquent early, but once you use them once they're gone or you have to put resources into getting them back, and a deck that is trying to use Delinquent early is just going to hit you with it again and your Unowns are gone.

Later in the game, there are better options for anyone worried about Delinquent... preferably Octillery.
 
I think the Ninetails with Barrier Shrine would be great against deliquent, shutting off stadiums from being played.
 
A cute little tech in expanded could be exeggcute PLF. You could propogate the turn before and then just discard it instead of your resources.
 
The only way I can think to have a constant defense. Octillery gets you back to 5, Shaymin EX 6. People seem to be going away from heavy draw based supporters to more utility supporters and are letting items and Pokemon do the drawing. Isn't there a new Pokemon that ignores effects that target your hand?
 
Honestly, I'm not sure if I can see Deliquent being that much of an early game threat, I think it'll be a mid-game hitter. As has already been stated, you'd need a stadium, red card, and deliquent turn 1 to actually hurt your opponent, but what if you're not hurting them? For a Maxie's Gallade or Archie's Empoleon deck, that could actually help the opponent. It also hurts early game set up because you're disrupting your opponent instead of boosting yourself. Once you're all set up though, there's not much harm in disrupting. It'd be an especially good card to play after your opponent plays a Judge.


crystal_pidgeot said:
The only way I can think to have a constant defense. Octillery gets you back to 5, Shaymin EX 6. People seem to be going away from heavy draw based supporters to more utility supporters and are letting items and Pokemon do the drawing. Isn't there a new Pokemon that ignores effects that target your hand?
Click to expand...

The one you're thinking of is Marowak, but it only works against attacks that target your hand. Giratina's, Toad's, etc.
 
Go second, set down a parallel city to nullify any explosive setup, delinquent, and this:
428px-RotomAncientOrigins29.jpg

Odds are that if you go second, your opponent has already played himself down to 4-5 cards.

This is going to be a great format
 
XY5_EN_38.png


^ Start with that, then turn 2, AZ to remove it from Active, and combine it with:

XY4_EN_64.png

Plus:

Garbotoxin(to negate Marowak's ability to block hand effects), Delinquent, Xatu RSK(Future Sight), and Bunnelby w/ Fighting Fury Belt, then...

^ you've got the one mill deck to rule them all(as long as you arrange the top 5 carefully, meaning keep the double puzzle of times away from the top deck of your foe's, knowing that if it's one puzzle of time on the top, that's ok, but if the foe gets two of them, he or she could make your strategy blow up in your face by putting what he or she needs in the hand to get out of the discard pressure, whether energies, lysandres, etc., and the mill deck user will likely pay for his or her mistake by seeing the prize draws go to the foe), one that has little to no ways to defend against it, , ... :D

^...at least until TPCi decides to ban Delinquent...
 
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101453.jpg


I have looked at this wombo combo of red card and Delinquent there is one card that has made my deck perfect troll deck that card is

baltoy 32/98
its attack future spin does
Look at the top 3 cards of either player's deck and put them back on top of that player's deck in any order.

this way I control what my opponent draws i have been play testing my deck for this a lot with amazing results its fun fluid and great when all your opponent does is pass pass pass
 
When's that Marowak with the ability to block opponent's hand-targeting effects coming out? That or Ninetails is pretty good imo.
 
cardgjammer said:
XY5_EN_38.png


^ Start with that, then turn 2, AZ to remove it from Active, and combine it with:

XY4_EN_64.png

Plus:

Garbotoxin(to negate Marowak's ability to block hand effects), Delinquent, Xatu RSK(Future Sight), and Bunnelby w/ Fighting Fury Belt, then...

^ you've got the one mill deck to rule them all(as long as you arrange the top 5 carefully, meaning keep the double puzzle of times away from the top deck of your foe's, knowing that if it's one puzzle of time on the top, that's ok, but if the foe gets two of them, he or she could make your strategy blow up in your face by putting what he or she needs in the hand to get out of the discard pressure, whether energies, lysandres, etc., and the mill deck user will likely pay for his or her mistake by seeing the prize draws go to the foe), one that has little to no ways to defend against it, , ... :D

^...at least until TPCi decides to ban Delinquent...
Click to expand...

So you're saying play Escavalier to synergize with Delinquent, right? I don't think the Wailord is necessary a vital part of that strategy, but the idea of having something that can take a hit to protect evolving Basics on the Bench is always welcome.
 
IMO, the best way to defend against delinquent is to set up Ninetales T1 with Wally, or use Forest of Giant Plants to set up Vileplume to minimize Delinquent's damage.ninetales-primal-clash-pcl-21.jpgvileplume-ancient-origins-aor-3.jpg
 
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