Define: Power Creep

[Otaku]

I remember non-EX cards got pretty pricey, even more than many EXs. Like Luxray G Lv. X was $80 at its peak. That's a lot of money for 1 copy. And that's for a single.

When someone bought a Luxray G Lv.X for $80, that money wasn't going back to the people/company that produce the Pokémon TCG: it was going to that actual seller. If a powerful card is known to be on the way soon enough, it can increase the sales the-powers-that-be receive and thus their profits, but besides that high prices for singles can discourage people from playing as well, nearly all that money ends up in the hands of the person (re)selling the single, not the ones to design and manufacture the actual product.

 

[TheStrictNein]

When someone bought a Luxray G Lv.X for $80, that money wasn't going back to the people/company that produce the Pokémon TCG: it was going to that actual seller. If a powerful card is known to be on the way soon enough, it can increase the sales the-powers-that-be receive and thus their profits, but besides that high prices for singles can discourage people from playing as well, nearly all that money ends up in the hands of the person (re)selling the single, not the ones to design and manufacture the actual product.

Yeah, but if URs are going for $80 a card, you know people are going to start buying crates to hope to pull it. That's £400 in TPCi's pocket.

 

[Chewy]

Power creep is inevitable, whether it be for the already mentioned economical reasons or even just pure entertainment. If they released Hitmonchan today, nobody would care, nobody would talk about it. You look at a set like Ancient Origins, you see Sceptile, Tyranitar, Vileplume, Giratina, whatever else it might be it gets you excited, it gets you talking about it. When the set finally comes out you try and acquire those cards, you try to build decks with them and its fun.

Whether you are someone who likes to always play the best cards in the format to be the best or someone who goes against the flow to try and beat the best, I say enjoy it for what it is. It isnt all negative.

 

[Otaku]

Yeah, but if URs are going for $80 a card, you know people are going to start buying crates to hope to pull it. That's £400 in TPCi's pocket.

How often is the UR selling for $80 before the bulk of the orders are being filled?

Remember, the powers-that-be produce the cards and sell them to large distributors.

The large distributors place their initial orders before the set is released to the public.

By the time some is selling a single for $80, the-powers-that-be are likely done printing and selling their product.

This is also assuming that "by people" you mean "card shops": there are players that would decide to buy an entire case (box of booster boxes) because of valuable rares, but they aren't buying from the large distributors and they are still rare enough that you'll have to convince me they are purchasing enough product to compete with all the little kids or nostalgic adults that pick up a random booster at Target simply because "It's something Pokémon". Sure these people are happy to pull a valuable card... but aren't necessarily ever going to find out, let alone are they going to make the purchase specifically because "Oh, this set has a card valued at $80 in it!".

So to remind myself of how this is relevant to the discussion... no, power creep is not that great a selling point. Is it a selling point? Yeah, to people not worried about the long term health of the game.

 

[asdjklghty]

How often is the UR selling for $80 before the bulk of the orders are being filled?
So to remind myself of how this is relevant to the discussion... no, power creep is not that great a selling point. Is it a selling point? Yeah, to people not worried about the long term health of the game.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Power creep is a selling point to those who want the formats to be "unhealthy"?

 

[Otaku]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Power creep is a selling point to those who want the formats to be "unhealthy"?

Those who don't care about the future health of game balance have little reason not to love "more powerful" cards, yes. If this sounds harsh, please remember something: I've been here. I'm not a sage or even particularly smart, but I've been playing the Pokémon TCG since it started in the U.S. This means I saw how potent the first few sets were... and how eventually we had a "crunch" that had to reset everything to well below where the game started. Why? Because either the core game design or at least the design team realized they couldn't make the game work properly with cards that powerful.

So even if power creep is unavoidable, it still isn't a good thing and as such when a player that wishes for a game to remain healthy see it, it should be a turn off.

 

[asdjklghty]

Those who don't care about the future health of game balance have little reason not to love "more powerful" cards, yes. If this sounds harsh, please remember something: I've been here. I'm not a sage or even particularly smart, but I've been playing the Pokémon TCG since it started in the U.S. This means I saw how potent the first few sets were... and how eventually we had a "crunch" that had to reset everything to well below where the game started. Why? Because either the core game design or at least the design team realized they couldn't make the game work properly with cards that powerful.

So even if power creep is unavoidable, it still isn't a good thing and as such when a player that wishes for a game to remain healthy see it, it should be a turn off.

Ah. I see.

 

[Lanstar]

Interesting topic... I say this as I've been checking out the old card sets from the Pokebeach database, from the Base set through Neo Destiny.

One thing I noticed: Between these old sets, so much of the base set was quite relevant. That is, there wasn't that much "Power Creep" at all, aside from the notorious Sneasel and Slowking, which got banned competitively. Venusaur, Blastoise, Electabuzz, etc. from the Base set stood the test of time, and even many of the trainer cards from the base set could easily be staples compared to the Neo sets.

Now, the most interesting thing is how they enforced these restrictions: There was loads of creativity in the newer cards. The "Light" type cards from Neo Destiny had strong effects - but you had to share their benefits with your opponent. The "Dark" named Pokemon had very limited HP - to a point of being no less vulnerable than their non-dark pre-evolutions... Although their effects were quite strong. The Gym leader pokemon had a restriction by name isolation, kind of like in Team Plasma cards today.

And the trainer cards - I swear that you'll find some of the strangest and craziest effects in the entire game between these sets - and yet few could have been any more powerful than the Base Set ones. I mean, look at the effects of "Lt. Surge's Secret Plan" from the Gym Challenge set - incredibly bizarre! Lots of other trainers after the base set had loads of risks you'd have to take should you use them - the Base set ones were enterprise-class in comparison. Though since you could play as many trainers as you'd like back then, the constraints were quite justified.

With all this said, I would define "Power Creep" as overpowering for the sake of overpowering, in a way that no creativity in the card rules is involved. Mewtwo EX, to me, is power creep, as it uses too many of the same concepts from the past - an energy-variable attack and an energy discard required attack - and only ups the HP and power of its attack. In such, it becomes to "Base Set" Pokemon to revolve all strategies around, not because of any new effect, but the fact that it raises a new standard of existing ones.

I just hope, though, that this power creep doesn't end up stifling the creativity of the game...

 

[Otaku]

One thing I noticed: Between these old sets, so much of the base set was quite relevant. That is, there wasn't that much "Power Creep" at all, aside from the notorious Sneasel and Slowking, which got banned competitively. Venusaur, Blastoise, Electabuzz, etc. from the Base set stood the test of time, and even many of the trainer cards from the base set could easily be staples compared to the Neo sets.

There wasn't much power creep from the Base Set because it was already overpowered. ^^'

Instead you see some efforts to make things work and then a "power crunch" most things are taken down a peg, especially from the perspective of the Standard Format shifting from Unlimited to Modified (WotC terminology: Standard is just the default format for Organized play). Slowking from Neo Genesis received an incorrect translation, allowing its Pokémon Power (re: Ability) to work while Benched (and thus stack) when it was only supposed to work while Active. Sneasel of Neo Genesis may not have been so good without Slowking and/or Focus Band behind it... or maybe it would have.

When you look at the Pokémon, they tend to be smaller and/or not hit as hard and/or do less. The Trainers are substantially weaker except for a few like Focus Band. Special Energy cards... got weird thanks to Special Energy Darkness Energy and Special Energy Metal Energy and how they were originally worded. Drawing a blank on what other Energy was released during this time. Again though, all this was after the power crunch. You'll see power creep start in the sets after these ones.

Now, the most interesting thing is how they enforced these restrictions: There was loads of creativity in the newer cards.

For the record, most Dark and I think all Light Pokémon were considered pretty terrible. Some of the Gym Leader stuff worked, and then you had things like Feraligatr (Neo Genesis 5/111) as the focus of a deck doing well, Entei (Neo Reveltation 6/64) being used to fuel Magcargo (Neo Reveltation 33/64) and some Crobat (Neo Revelation 4/64). That isn't all the decks, but it was the stuff like this that dominated.

 

[Rakkis157]

Aww, @Otaku got his say while I was typing this, but oh well...

Any Base Set to X Set is a terrible comparison for power creep, because, well, the Mewtwo EX wars format you all love to use as an example of power creep, this format was arguably when Pokemon was the closest to its roots, so to speak. That was how broken things were in Base Set. The only difference between Hitmonchan and Mewtwo was HP per Prize and damage output, but even then the difference wasn't too big.

You also can't exactly use a comparison of Base Set Trainers to, well, Trainers in any other set as an example of a lack of power creep. Hell, you can't use any Trainer at all because while Pokemon have been undergoing power creep, Trainers have been going reverse power creep from the very first set til now. Hell, Base Set era Trainers were really, really broken, and tbh I don't know how you can even power creep them. Had I the option to use them in my deck today, I definitely would. Porygon donk is a good example of an unlimited deck that was only possible with the raw power Base Set Trainers.

In fact, in some aspects, Pokemon have been going reverse power creep as well. Compare the 'broken' Shaymin EX to Uxie LA. One gets you up to 6, has 65 HP/Prize and gives up 2 Prizes, one only gives up 1 Prize and has 70HP/Prize. Pidgeot from FRLG to Swampert PRC is another example, as is Claydol to Musharna to Slurpuff (in descending order of power).

HP and Damage alone is not what power creep is about. Yes, upping HP in an era is not a problem power creep causes as long as the hp and damage values is consistent throughout the era. The problem power creep poses comes from two things. Damage being upped more than hp + an increase of strong Trainers leading to the pacing of the game becoming really, really fast, and power creep not being applied to the card pool evenly. On the second one, for starters, not only do some non-EX Pokemon (particularly those evolving into stage 2s) not gain from power creep, some go as far as to be affected by reverse power creep. Compare Exeggcute Jungle to Exeggcute ROS. 50 HP became 40 HP. A decent moveset of a reliable sleep and 20 damage + 10 heal became a moveset with an unreliable switch out (seriously, when will you ever use that over just retreating manually with said Energy Card) and an attack that does 10 with no effect.

@Otaku

The way I see it, some instances of power creep, like merely upping HP and damage but keeping the overall ratios the same, is harmless to balance and in some cases beneficial because it creates more 'nuances' (I can't find a better word for this) in power for the cards. Some, like upping speed, hurts it. It is up to the powers that be to choose which kind of power creep to use, I guess.

 

[tototavros]

@Otaku would you say that there was a power decrease between the DP-UL and HS-NVI metas?
Let's compare the decks:

DP-UL decks:
SP - BlazeChomp/BlazeRay/DialgaChomp/DialgaRay/LuxChomp and so on and so on
Basically the idea is to be just playing w/ your opponent/KOing your opponent/Locking your opponent in a toolbox sort of manner, featuring such charms as Garchomp C Lv.X, who, for [C][C][C] (which was often turned into just [C][C]) could do a snipe for 80 (basically killing most basics and even Stage 1s like Claydol)
Gengar: 60+10 snipe w/ the ability to move a damage counter each turn, then switch into Spritomb to Item lock
Gyarados: Hits for 90 T1 (ideally) by discarding 3 Magikarp
Uxie/ShuppetDonk: Hit for 80+ each turn (PlusPowers were like tools that were discarded from the active, but as both went away from the active w/ the PlusPowers still attached, they would be getting free PlusPowers, then sending up a wall (like if Mienshao FFI were good)
SpeedFighting - Donphan/Machamp - Donk if they only have basics w/ Machamp, bop for 60 for [F], 80 w/ Expert Belt, more w/ PlusPower/Crobat G/PokeTurn/SSU/PokeBlower+
Pl0X - Hitting for 60 and lock w/ Gardevoir, do insane amounts of damage w/ Gallade

HS-NVI decks:
Electrode Prime - CaKE/CoKE/LaKE etc. - Get a T2 EnergyMite then make it rain energy, either hit for 80 w/ Cobalion, 80 w/ Landorus, 90 w/ Terrakion, or 30 blanket w/ Kyurem, boxy style deck.
ThunderDome - Builds up a bunch of Eels for Magnezone Prime to Lost Burn a bunch of [L] away, incredibly slow
Durant - Mill deck
EmboarLegend - Get [R][R][R][L] onto an RDL and smash face taking prizes left and right w/ a 150 HP monster
ReshiPhlosion - Stream Reshiram's Blue Flare which does 120, discarding two [R]
Six Corners - Boxy deck that counters your opponent's deck w/ Big basics (imagine Aromatisse/Big Basics minus the Aromatisse)
Chandelure- Drop 4 damage counters wherever

All in all, I think that HS-NVI was a much slower format, as even the fast decks like CaKE would rarely be able to go off on T2, let alone T1 like Speed Fighting, ShuppetDonk, or Gyarados. It also avoided the locky elements of DP-UL like Dialga G Lv. X, Spiritomb, Pl0X, Power Spray, and Mespirit.

Of course, it all went to shit after the release of Mewtwo-EX and Darkrai-EX.

 

[Otaku]

@Otaku would you say that there was a power decrease between the DP-UL and HS-NVI metas?

Based on what little I know? Yeah.

My last major hiatus from the game (where I couldn't even keep up on reading about things, let alone playing in even a "fun" capacity) would have been during most of this time. I basically came back around the release of HeartGold/SoulSilver... I think. Might have been a set or two later. I basically got to see some scary looking decks, see an even scarier looking deck once the BW-era first turn rules were announced. Oh and be a bit excited and then worried when I saw Double Colorless Energy was back. From what I do vaguely remember, it was a weird time.

So this is a lot more conjecture than even I tend to use, but I think we did have something of a power crunch during this period. What made it so strange was then we saw power creep quite literally as soon as possible; some aspects of the game that had been taken to 11 (like the crazy Evolution acceleration) weren't just taken back a notch, they were taken down... well I guess only two or three notches until we actually saw Rare Candy receive an errata that basically turned it into Pokémon Breeder. To give you an idea of how things change, back then I thought it might be a good idea to reprint Pokémon Breeder as a Supporter with Rare Candy's old effect.

A very important part of all of this would be the first turn rules. Pokémon has always been a fast paced TCG; the first turn rules sometimes allow it to be even more insane and sometimes help to curb the power of at least the worst offenders. I can't remember how many different first turn rules the DP-era had but HS-NVI would have been operating under "Neither player can Evolve on his or her first turn." being the only special first turn rule... right?

 

[Lanstar]

Technically, yes... The Base set was pretty much overpowered, both Trainers and Pokemon. xD

But my point was that relativity is the major part on whether a set enforces power creep. If once a new set shows a superiority complex within enough of its cards above the older set, and that this happens consistently between sets, then power creep occurs. No way was Base-Neo a true form of power creep, as, well... I think there was little they could do to make those newer sets any more equally or overly powered as the Base set without wrecking the damaged metagame - other than declare new incompatible formats and form new rules.

Despite all that, I saw those newer cards enforcing all sorts of rules and ideas to amend a broken first set, albeit cautiously. And from that, we have card effects that are innovative to the game itself. I mean, the Stadium, the Super Rod, Hooligans Jim & Cas, Escape Rope, Hex Maniac, and other trainer cards all came from reusing these older sets. I noticed so much more reuse of the older card effects into our modern metagame all coming from these sets than other ones I've been browsing.

This makes me wonder how much real innovation in this game is going on as of late. I don't know though... I guess EX's were able to do one innovative task - they broadened the damage to HP spread, which I felt was too narrowly defined before them. Fully evolved Pokemon at the 170-200 HP range would feel more open to differing numbers and attack effects than 110-140 HP, though sadly they had to make big basics to impose this trend. :/

But otherwise, if they see the only way to innovate the game is by power-creeping the same effects, then the game might just get boring sooner or later. I hope the Break Format isn't just a total reiteration of this "Lv. X" I've heard about.

 

[Rakkis157]

@tototavros

I'm in a similar situation to Otaku... From DP Era onwards, PTCG made a huge decline in my country and has been replaced by Vanguard and Magic until today. That said, Pokemon TCG has undergone a few huge changes with after Base Set, after Neo, and after DP being the most notable.

I would say that the biggest change to the TCG was indeed the DP era --> HGSS era, because there was not just one, but two trends that got cracked down on in that period. The power creep is one, where many cards, especially the Trainers (current definition), that had really, really strong effects were rotated out. The other crackdown that took place in this transition was the complexity creep. Yes, this is an issue as well. Complexity creep, in short, is when cards start to get more and more complex over time, resulting in the learning curve for the game being really steep, and while it is enjoyable for competitive play, made it harder for children to get into the game.

@Lanstar as well,

In some cases, complexity creep can be just as bad as power creep. If you look at the broken decks in unlimited format, you will notice that the bulk of key cards include cards from Base Set era and DP era, and this is no coincidence. It is because while power creep makes cards stronger in terms of numbers, complexity creep makes them scarily versatile and more easily capable of creating quite broken combos that can work really consistently, as you can see in decks like SableDonk. So far, starting from the HGSS era, it seems that the powers that be are putting a lot of attention on not getting the complexity of the game get too out of hand. We now rarely have cards with more than 2 Attacks/Abilities, no 2 Ability Pokemon, simpler trainers, etc. while Pokebodies and Pokepowers got merged and lost their ability to be removed via special conditions.

Is there really a lack of innovation nowadays? Maybe, maybe not. The thing is that the longer the tcg has been around, the harder it gets to innovate something while keeping it simple. Still, there is still innovation, albeit a little less than the eras when the game was fresh. Ancient Traits and Mega Pokemon are examples of innovation on their part, and some sets like Noble Victories, the soon to come Ancient Origins and my favorite Plasma Freeze are sets that try really hard to bring new things to the table, even if some of their effects are reiterations of older ones.

One more reason why it isn't too wrong to have returning abilities is that cards in PTCG rotate. Sometimes some effects fill niches that open up lots of strategies, or fill in glaring needs like improve consistency, so it is crucial to keep them around. There are only so many ways you can work "Once a turn, draw x cards," and considering that we have at least 5 versions of this fairly must have effect in Expanded, the powers that be aren't doing too shabbily. I don't like the lack of complexity either, but it is unhealthy for the game regardless of my opinion.

Also, power creep isn't that simple. To give an extreme example, if set A were to have Pokemon with 60 HP and 20 Average Damage, and set B have 120 HP and 40 Average Damage, but the two sets never really see play together being released years between them, then is that power creep? No, it isn't. All it is is inflating HP and Damage scores but keeping the overall power levels the same. What makes power creep so hard to pinpoint and so difficult to counteract however is due to the nature of this tcg in having different sets interact with one another. The biggest example for this is of course Lysandre's Trump Card. Worse, power creep does not necessarily come from a set that has just been released, but rather can spawn from interaction between older cards with newer ones. Landorus EX became really big after Furious Fists, same as Donphan. Keldeo EX became miles stronger after Plasma Freeze thanks to Float Stone. Weavile had an increase of power with Flashfire. Zoroark became strong with Sky Field and Flareon became crazy after Phantom Forces and Primal Clash. Tool Drop was revived with Dimension Valley, Lysandre's Trump Card and Flare Tools.

Oh, great. I'm rambling now.

 

[Rakkis157]

@Otaku

IIRC you couldn't play Trainers on your opening turn for DP era.

 

[Otaku]

@Rakkis157 (and anyone else that enjoys this discussion)

I wasn't sure if the DP-era had the same first turn rules the entire time or not. For one thing, the DP-era comes in two pieces, including its set prefixes: Diamond & Pearl became the new "base set" for the era, having no prefix but becoming the prefix for latter sets: if you look at logos you'll see it isn't just Mysterious Treasures for the next set but Diamond & Pearl: Mysterious Treasures.

Of course we thankfully shorten that to DP: Mysterious Treasures if we feel we need to include it at all, but it still helps identify where in the TCG's life span we are at. DP: Stormfront is the last one in this line: Platinum is the new "base set" and prefix that lasts until we hit HeartGold & SoulSilver (or is it HeartGold/SoulSilver?). In fact it is the BW-era and now probably the XY-era that are reverting to less distinct divisions in the sets, likely because there is no video game for them to make an easy, sensible break, not unlike the super-long EX-era (EX sets, not Pokémon), though they really should have made EX: Emerald just "Emerald" and the new starting point.

Just to show this isn't all just a "me" thing, look at the contents of these sets: the big "tell" is their inclusion of Basic Energy cards. Every time we do have a new prefix, we get new printings Basic Energy cards. There are times when we get them and it is not a set division, but a lot of those (like EX: Emerald) have a feel like perhaps they should have been (though one or two seem almost random).

Wait... why did I go through all of this? Just to emphasize how the first turn rules might have changed? No, that would be excessive even by my standard. Consider this an argument why at the very least such sets should be viewed as the places in the game we consider the... wow almost every phrase that works here, or at least that I can think of, has been used as a name or official term for something else. Hope you all can make your Confusion checks. So for sure the official "breaks" in the set blocks, and likely most of the unofficial ones should be seen as the breakpoints or boundaries where we should look most for power creep. New mechanics usually correspond with this as well.

 

[tototavros]

@Rakkis157 (and anyone else that enjoys this discussion)

I wasn't sure if the DP-era had the same first turn rules the entire time or not. For one thing, the DP-era comes in two pieces, including its set prefixes: Diamond & Pearl became the new "base set" for the era, having no prefix but becoming the prefix for latter sets: if you look at logos you'll see it isn't just Mysterious Treasures for the next set but Diamond & Pearl: Mysterious Treasures.

Of course we thankfully shorten that to DP: Mysterious Treasures if we feel we need to include it at all, but it still helps identify where in the TCG's life span we are at. DP: Stormfront is the last one in this line: Platinum is the new "base set" and prefix that lasts until we hit HeartGold & SoulSilver (or is it HeartGold/SoulSilver?). In fact it is the BW-era and now probably the XY-era that are reverting to less distinct divisions in the sets, likely because there is no video game for them to make an easy, sensible break, not unlike the super-long EX-era (EX sets, not Pokémon), though they really should have made EX: Emerald just "Emerald" and the new starting point.

Just to show this isn't all just a "me" thing, look at the contents of these sets: the big "tell" is their inclusion of Basic Energy cards. Every time we do have a new prefix, we get new printings Basic Energy cards. There are times when we get them and it is not a set division, but a lot of those (like EX: Emerald) have a feel like perhaps they should have been (though one or two seem almost random).

Wait... why did I go through all of this? Just to emphasize how the first turn rules might have changed? No, that would be excessive even by my standard. Consider this an argument why at the very least such sets should be viewed as the places in the game we consider the... wow almost every phrase that works here, or at least that I can think of, has been used as a name or official term for something else. Hope you all can make your Confusion checks. So for sure the official "breaks" in the set blocks, and likely most of the unofficial ones should be seen as the breakpoints or boundaries where we should look most for power creep. New mechanics usually correspond with this as well.

While this may seem premature as we are yet to experience the 2015-2016 rotation, what do you think the 2016-2017 rotation would be, as there are no sets between FLF and ANO which include basic Energy? Are we returning to the DP-on era? Will Yveltal-EX haunt us for more years to come, just as Darkrai-EX has?

 

[Otaku]

While this may seem premature as we are yet to experience the 2015-2016 rotation, what do you think the 2016-2017 rotation would be, as there are no sets between FLF and ANO which include basic Energy? Are we returning to the DP-on era? Will Yveltal-EX haunt us for more years to come, just as Darkrai-EX has?

Keep in mind we are talking two different things; I'm not talking about rotation points, I'm talking about places to look for the game mechanics (and things like the first turn rules) changing, and thus when power creep will if not be noticed, be finalized. They just need a set (or even something like a Trainer Kit) reprinted if they don't want to just say "Basic Energy are always legal". After all, Basic Energy cards in sets tend to be pretty lame even when you're just beginning: it just isn't enough Basic Energy to really get a deck going, except perhaps right now since you might be running like four Basic Energy and four Special Energy cards. Getting sufficient Basic Energy is a great reason for things like Starter Decks, though most players I knew accumulated enough that they would freely give them away to new players.

Hmm... "finalized" power creep might be a worthwhile part of this discussion. As I said, when you look at the cards in this game you'll see places where instead of the overall power level (or even power levels in specific parts of the game) go up... they go back down: usually going down happens fast hence why I referred to it as a power "crunch". When you find those points where it is clear the designers come to a break point, you'll see what mechanics are being retained and what ones are either being abandoned or set aside until they come back later (for whatever reason) and what are being kept. This can be helpful documenting power creep; maybe the super-special-awesome-card of a new block may not be as good as its counterpart in the previous set, but if we compare it to the super-special-awesome-card of the first set of the previous card, we can get a better idea of what level of power creep is actually happening. Of course just to make things complicated, sometimes the super-special-awesome-cards end up being more powerful right away or in a "middle" set because someone wakes up and goes "...what are they thinking?!"

Or perhaps because they needed a movie or game tie-in and it just happens that way.

 

[tototavros]

Keep in mind we are talking two different things; I'm not talking about rotation points, I'm talking about places to look for the game mechanics (and things like the first turn rules) changing, and thus when power creep will if not be noticed, be finalized. They just need a set (or even something like a Trainer Kit) reprinted if they don't want to just say "Basic Energy are always legal". After all, Basic Energy cards in sets tend to be pretty lame even when you're just beginning: it just isn't enough Basic Energy to really get a deck going, except perhaps right now since you might be running like four Basic Energy and four Special Energy cards. Getting sufficient Basic Energy is a great reason for things like Starter Decks, though most players I knew accumulated enough that they would freely give them away to new players.

Hmm... "finalized" power creep might be a worthwhile part of this discussion. As I said, when you look at the cards in this game you'll see places where instead of the overall power level (or even power levels in specific parts of the game) go up... they go back down: usually going down happens fast hence why I referred to it as a power "crunch". When you find those points where it is clear the designers come to a break point, you'll see what mechanics are being retained and what ones are either being abandoned or set aside until they come back later (for whatever reason) and what are being kept. This can be helpful documenting power creep; maybe the super-special-awesome-card of a new block may not be as good as its counterpart in the previous set, but if we compare it to the super-special-awesome-card of the first set of the previous card, we can get a better idea of what level of power creep is actually happening. Of course just to make things complicated, sometimes the super-special-awesome-cards end up being more powerful right away or in a "middle" set because someone wakes up and goes "...what are they thinking?!"

Or perhaps because they needed a movie or game tie-in and it just happens that way.

What sets would you say are examples of these?

 

[Rakkis157]

I had a really busy day and fell asleep sometime during typing this lol.

Went over to look at the expansion sets. Yeah, I was completely unaware that Platinum and DP were different blocks. Thanks for informing me. On a side note, one more set. That's all we need for the current EXs to have been around for as many sets as Pokemon ex.

Back to the topic at hand, yes, I wasn't aware that DP and Platinum were different blocks entirely. From what it seems:


Base Set - Gym Challenge + Legendary Collection
Neo Genesis - Neo Destiny
Expedition - Skyridge
EX Ruby - EX Power Keepers:
Diamond and Pearl - Stormfront
Platinum - Arceus
HeartGold & SoulSilver - Call of Legends
Black & White - Legendary Treasures
X & Y - Ancient Origins

Are the individual blocks and the best place to look for new mechanics outside set theme mechanics like Team Plasma, Team Magma, etc. would be between them.

@tototavros

If you mean the location of power crunches, the last one was DP-HGSS. One thing you can note about this power crunch is that, for better or worst, barring the select few uber tier cards, the overall power levels of even the current era has yet to reach the ones we had back then. We only have significantly stronger cards today because most of the power creeping went to a select few cards while everything else were kept to well below Dp-Pt levels. One example would be one that @thegrovylekid brought up back in 6P, and that is Gengar from one of the DP-Pt sets to Chandelure PHF. Both had Fainting Spell as an ability, but outside that, everything Gengar has, from its attacks to the support it has to its pre-evolutions were significantly better than that of Chandelure. Thus even if the ability Fainting Spell has far more impact today than it did before (yes, Chandelure's only advantage over Gengar was that Pokemon EX exist), it is far from enough to allow you to run it even. This coming from my experience on running several decks built around Chandelure PHF as attackers or walls, if Chandelure had the some of the things in question, it would be incredibly playable.

Another Power Crunch was in Neo Destiny --> Expedition. Here, the hit was mostly on Trainer Cards via the introduction of the Supporter mechanic, letting you balance effects that the Base Set Trainers allow you to use rampantly.