XY Do you dislike what's been revealed of Gen VI?

[garbodorable]

I am going to be a jerk here with an eight word response.

"Really? Because that's exactly what it sounds like."

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Do I need to spell out some of the problems it causes? Cause I can do that.

All right then:

-I already mentioned the pointlessness of including Unova Dex Pokemon that aren't really catchable until after the National Dex is obtained.
-Day Care is inaccessible until post game because the area it is in is now a post game area. The Day Care is a crucial feature for the game, allowing you to breed Egg Moves and DW abilities onto your Pokemon. Not to mention that some Pokemon cannot be obtained without it. Especially in this game, there's about a dozen Pokemon that can only be obtained by breeding (Wingull, Shuppet, Golett, Larvesta, Cleffa, Budew, Blitzle, Beldum, Vanillite, Deino, there's also Larvitar, Igglybuff, and Tympole, but they're post game anyway)
-There are virtually no options for Ice types to use against Drayden, with most of the Ice types only being catchable in Giant Chasm. Your only options are Cubchoo and Spheal, which are only catchable in Winter, and Lapras, which is extremely rare.
-In general, there's just too few options before you reach East Unova, with about a third of the Unova Dex being restricted until then, some of which aren't really strong enough to warrant being that late in the game (Gligar for example). No other game makes you wait so long to get so many Pokemon, you usually have access to most families in the game by about the 6th gym.

Not that the distribution is perfect, but I don't see what's so pointless about having regional dex pokemon post-game. This generation, for the first time, I enthusiastically played pokemon games after beating the elite four and champion; in BW you don't even enter the hall of fame until the "post game," and in BW2 there's the habitat list to complete. In both, there's far more post-game areas than in any other Pokemon game besides G/S; why is that bad? You only miss out if you always stop playing when the credits roll.

Even excluding the regional dex pokemon you can't get until post-game, BW2 had a far larger regional dex than any game before it. It sounds like you're complaining that there were more pokemon than ever, but the pokemon you liked weren't on your team for the main plot. I can see how you'd be disappointed by the lack of Metagross and Tyranitar, but those are pseudo legendaries that are only ever available late-game anyway.

I'd feel less inclined to keep playing if all the pokemon families are thrown at you by the 6th gym. Regardless, you reach eastern Unova right after the 6th gym in BW2, and there's a huge gap before you fight the 7th. It's not that big a difference. As for Drayden, there's also nothing wrong with a gym leader actually being remotely difficult for a change, instead of the game catering to its rock-paper-scissors dynamic. That's what I always liked as a kid about Brock in R/B: if your starter was Charmander, there was nothing you could catch that was super-effective against rock. It was challenging and fun. New pokemon players don't need their hands held to the extent you suggest.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Not that the distribution is perfect, but I don't see what's so pointless about having regional dex pokemon post-game. This generation, for the first time, I enthusiastically played pokemon games after beating the elite four and champion; in BW you don't even enter the hall of fame until the "post game," and in BW2 there's the habitat list to complete. In both, there's far more post-game areas than in any other Pokemon game besides G/S; why is that bad? You only miss out if you always stop playing when the credits roll.

What's pointless about it is that you are given the National Dex after you beat the game. The whole point behind the regional dex is that you are given a sampling of Pokemon to mess around with up until you beat the game, and then the training wheels come off and you can get whatever Pokemon you want. A lot of these Pokemon aren't even seen in the game until you have the National Dex. Since you cannot encounter these Pokemon whatsoever during the main game (before you acquire the National Dex), it makes their inclusion in the Unova Dex pointless.

It sounds like you're complaining that there were more pokemon than ever, but the pokemon you liked weren't on your team for the main plot. I can see how you'd be disappointed by the lack of Metagross and Tyranitar, but those are pseudo legendaries that are only ever available late-game anyway.

Those are just examples, of course Metagross and Tyranitar would typically be seen late game (although some games you can get them as early as the 5th gym). It's the sheer number of Pokemon that are late game that is more problematic than which ones, pretty much a third of the entire Unova Dex is only encounterable at that point in the game.

I'd feel less inclined to keep playing if all the pokemon families are thrown at you by the 6th gym.

Putting every single family at that point in the game is nonsense anyway. I was thinking more along the lines of 80-90% of them. That's more fair.

Regardless, you reach eastern Unova right after the 6th gym in BW2, and there's a huge gap before you fight the 7th.

True, but that's still too small to have 1/3 of the dex there (although that does bring up another issue of pacing, since most of the other gyms before it are one city apart).

As for Drayden, there's also nothing wrong with a gym leader actually being remotely difficult for a change, instead of the game catering to its rock-paper-scissors dynamic. That's what I always liked as a kid about Brock in R/B: if your starter was Charmander, there was nothing you could catch that was super-effective against rock. It was challenging and fun. New pokemon players don't need their hands held to the extent you suggest.

Tell that to Game Freak, they've been dumbing down the games more and more.

Also, the whole thing with Brock in RB was an oversight in the design, later games that took place in Kanto added Mankey to Rt. 22 to make it fair to those that chose Charmander.

 

[evilpacman]

Voltorb and Electrode... Must I even? I think JWittz said it best...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3aoD9bs00Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

GTFO. Voltorb and Electrode are great. It doesnt matter what JWittz says, he must be dumb.


And since were having an argument on opinion here, why is it so hard to think that someone has a bad impression of the game because of what they have seen so far from it. You cant tell me you have never judged a book by its cover. Lastly, the title refers to whats been revealed so far. People can certainly dislike what has been revealed and its perfectly normal to make speculations that they would dislike seeing happen.





Seriously though, dont disrespect the Torbs.

---

That was pretty funny what he said about them though lol

 

[Metalizard]

What's pointless about it is that you are given the National Dex after you beat the game. The whole point behind the regional dex is that you are given a sampling of Pokemon to mess around with up until you beat the game, and then the training wheels come off and you can get whatever Pokemon you want. A lot of these Pokemon aren't even seen in the game until you have the National Dex. Since you cannot encounter these Pokemon whatsoever during the main game (before you acquire the National Dex), it makes their inclusion in the Unova Dex pointless.
...
Also, the whole thing with Brock in RB was an oversight in the design, later games that took place in Kanto added Mankey to Rt. 22 to make it fair to those that chose Charmander.

^This (the first paragraph)

Also, they added Metal Claw to Charmander's learnset in those games... though it didn't help much... I indeed caught a Mankey in that game to help against Brock...

 

[Pell_]

So those of you who hate Unova, do you hate Darmanitan?

Because honestly, it feels like a poke from second gen to me. The feel of it is just so... HIT HEAVY BUT TAKE DAMAGE TOO. I feel like that's a huge theme from gen 2. Hating Unova though... I don't understand. If it's Garbodor/Trubbish and the Vanillish line, then seriously, look at your gen 1 designs. Those are some of the least creative designs EVER. And they don't have the excuse that they already had almost 500 pokemon to justify it. Seriously, if you say that Garbodor and Vanillite are bad, but Muk and Electrode and Exeggcute are good... you might wanna get checked out by a mental doctor.

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[garbodorable]

Not that the distribution is perfect, but I don't see what's so pointless about having regional dex pokemon post-game. This generation, for the first time, I enthusiastically played pokemon games after beating the elite four and champion; in BW you don't even enter the hall of fame until the "post game," and in BW2 there's the habitat list to complete. In both, there's far more post-game areas than in any other Pokemon game besides G/S; why is that bad? You only miss out if you always stop playing when the credits roll.

What's pointless about it is that you are given the National Dex after you beat the game. The whole point behind the regional dex is that you are given a sampling of Pokemon to mess around with up until you beat the game, and then the training wheels come off and you can get whatever Pokemon you want. A lot of these Pokemon aren't even seen in the game until you have the National Dex. Since you cannot encounter these Pokemon whatsoever during the main game (before you acquire the National Dex), it makes their inclusion in the Unova Dex pointless.

Then, would it be better if they left those pokemon out of the Unova dex, and still had them in the post-game as National dex pokemon? And just had a smaller Unova dex? Because that difference seems really nominal.

Also, it's usually the case that you get the National dex without entirely completing the regional dex. There are often legendaries left to post-game, pokemon you have to trade for or breed, or pokemon like Beldum you get as gifts. So BW2 just had more pokemon like that, essentially, and made regional dex completion take a bit longer. I see what you're saying that it seems pointless, but for some players that's the kind of content that makes the post-game more appealing.

As for Drayden, there's also nothing wrong with a gym leader actually being remotely difficult for a change, instead of the game catering to its rock-paper-scissors dynamic. That's what I always liked as a kid about Brock in R/B: if your starter was Charmander, there was nothing you could catch that was super-effective against rock. It was challenging and fun. New pokemon players don't need their hands held to the extent you suggest.

Tell that to Game Freak, they've been dumbing down the games more and more.

Also, the whole thing with Brock in RB was an oversight in the design, later games that took place in Kanto added Mankey to Rt. 22 to make it fair to those that chose Charmander.

Oh believe me, I'd love to tell them. I just think it's subjective to call it design oversight to only give you Vanillish and Sneasel post-Drayden, or only give you Mankey post-Brock. Again, I prefer situations like that. Not everything has to be easy!

 

[evilpacman]

So those of you who hate Unova, do you hate Darmanitan?

Because honestly, it feels like a poke from second gen to me. The feel of it is just so... HIT HEAVY BUT TAKE DAMAGE TOO. I feel like that's a huge theme from gen 2. Hating Unova though... I don't understand. If it's Garbodor/Trubbish and the Vanillish line, then seriously, look at your gen 1 designs. Those are some of the least creative designs EVER. And they don't have the excuse that they already had almost 500 pokemon to justify it. Seriously, if you say that Garbodor and Vanillite are bad, but Muk and Electrode and Exeggcute are good... you might wanna get checked out by a mental doctor.

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I'm not entirely sure you get it. Not only are you insulting people based on their opinion, but you are making yourself look like you think you are superior. Generation 1 will always have its dedicated fanboys who will love all the dumb designs no matter how similar they may be to the new generation. And that is ok. Part of it is probably the original feeling Pokemon brought when it was first introduced. That feeling is gone for some people, so now they feel like its easier to judge the new Pokemon.

I honestly dont see how its a problem that people hate Unova. I personally disliked the games for a number of reasons. There was no feeling of adventure that many of the other games provided, and even with the extra stuff added on in BW2, it seemed short. The designs may have been similar to the Generation 1 Pokemon, but they could have done better. Sure, Magneton, Voltorb and Muk were all poor designs, but that does not act as a reason why its ok to have poor designs in new games.

If someone hates the new generation, keep in mind there are probably tons of factors that go into that opinion that may not be there for the other generations. I like Muk, Electrode and Exeggcute but dont like Garbodor and Vanillish. I have my reasons, like many others, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Haunted Water]

^This, and preceeding posts above.
Moral of the story that should be learned here: Don't hate the game, hate the player.
I'm not a big fan of the third generation. Do I bash its pokemon? No. Do I single out and destroy those who believe it should have been the last generation? Mostly.
I don't get how pokemon has the most 'vocal' fanbase on which ones were the best. Look at other franchises. Some can keep their crediblity up, while others just lose it. Pokemon is one of those that will always fail to disappoint. Each Gen has its rites. Gen I was the origin, w/o it, this would've never happened. Gen II introduced berries, breeding, happiness, and the Poketech. Gen III revolutionized the game, adding natures and abilities, and had a unique storyline. Gen IV introduced formes and utilized them heavily. Gen V introduced enhanced wi-fi capabilities, finally gave us a pure Flying, and innovated formes and how they are acquired.
Gen VI so far has turned the fanbase upside down by simply announcing its full use of 3D capability, a reveal trailer, and... Most importantly, a new Eeveelution that has everybody at each others' throats simply because of its evolution method and/or type.


With that said, should anybody find the means to senselessly argue a personal belief/impression/opinion? No. Will they, though? Most likely.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Then, would it be better if they left those pokemon out of the Unova dex, and still had them in the post-game as National dex pokemon? And just had a smaller Unova dex? Because that difference seems really nominal.

It's more logical that way, because that fits the entire purpose of having a regional dex, which is to give you a sampling of Pokemon that you encounter within the main storyline. Pokemon should not be showing up in the regional dex unless they're encountered some way before the National Dex is obtained (either in the wild, on trainer rosters, or something along those lines).

Also, it's usually the case that you get the National dex without entirely completing the regional dex. There are often legendaries left to post-game, pokemon you have to trade for or breed, or pokemon like Beldum you get as gifts. So BW2 just had more pokemon like that, essentially, and made regional dex completion take a bit longer. I see what you're saying that it seems pointless, but for some players that's the kind of content that makes the post-game more appealing.

And you know what? I was fine with that when it was just a handful of Pokemon (usually legendaries or pseudo legendaries), but to have 20 something Pokemon unobtainable until then is just ridiculous. And they really should be relying on National Dex Pokemon more for post game content, not more Unova Dex Pokemon. It's especially insulting to see these Pokemon take up the post game areas when there's plenty of National Dex Pokemon that cannot be acquired without using outside features like Poketransfer or the DW.

Oh believe me, I'd love to tell them. I just think it's subjective to call it design oversight to only give you Vanillish and Sneasel post-Drayden, or only give you Mankey post-Brock. Again, I prefer situations like that. Not everything has to be easy!

It's not subjective at all when you consider the fact that Pokemon is about options. The game is meant to be played in pretty much whatever way you want. If you don't want to rely on type advantages, fine, but who are you to say that others should not be allowed to?

 

[Blob55]

^This, and preceeding posts above.
Moral of the story that should be learned here: Don't hate the game, hate the player.
I'm not a big fan of the third generation. Do I bash its pokemon? No. Do I single out and destroy those who believe it should have been the last generation? Mostly.
I don't get how pokemon has the most 'vocal' fanbase on which ones were the best. Look at other franchises. Some can keep their crediblity up, while others just lose it. Pokemon is one of those that will always fail to disappoint. Each Gen has its rites. Gen I was the origin, w/o it, this would've never happened. Gen II introduced berries, breeding, happiness, and the Poketech. Gen III revolutionized the game, adding natures and abilities, and had a unique storyline. Gen IV introduced formes and utilized them heavily. Gen V introduced enhanced wi-fi capabilities, finally gave us a pure Flying, and innovated formes and how they are acquired.
Gen VI so far has turned the fanbase upside down by simply announcing its full use of 3D capability, a reveal trailer, and... Most importantly, a new Eeveelution that has everybody at each others' throats simply because of its evolution method and/or type.


With that said, should anybody find the means to senselessly argue a personal belief/impression/opinion? No. Will they, though? Most likely.

I never really did understand the saying: "Don't hate the game, hate the player." Does that mean I have to hate myself? (As a player).

The first Generation to introduce interchanging forms was actually Gen 3, with Castform and its ability to change depending on the weather and then later Deoxys.
4th Gen added Gender differences for quite a few Pokémon.
IMO, 5th Gen really didn't add much, because form changing was a thing since 3rd Gen and they got rid of a lot of cool features, like comparing height and weight (Even if it wasn't your own).

 

[Takuto]

"Everyone has their own opinions but not everyone has their own facts.' - Ricky Gervais