Does anyone here wish that the TCG took more "skill?"

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T

The Reaver

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I didn't see any threads like this posted before, but lock this up if I'm wrong.

It's a little difficult to phrase without comparing the TCG to other games such as MtG. What I'm saying is, does anyone wish that the outcome of games depended more on player action instead of just how your deck is built? Don't get me wrong--I love the game as it is right now, but the mechanics of the game make games run on autopilot. Yeah, I know "deck consistency is key, blah blah blah," but if it weren't for the simple mechanics of the game, it could be possible to frequently beat decks that are hard counters to yours. (I know that player decision plays a role in gameplay, but not as much as it could be.)

I'm not necessarily requesting a mechanics change from Nintendo. Heck, even something as simple as allowing a small sideboard in tournaments would increase the amount of "skill" required in gameplay.

So, what does everyone else think? (Puts up flameshield. o.o)
 
The game is not as skill focused as people would like, and I do wish that the game was a bit more skill oriented. I think that the game lacks playstyles that actually can benefit from skill, locking, donking, and sniping are all extremely uncomplex ideas and in the end the outcome is always the same. I look back upon the Ex sets and say that those were the most skilled times, as almost every Ex was playable to a degree, where not every Lv.X is playable. I can make some of the most complex decks around that, if they go of correctly are amazing. My Dustox deck is ridiculously fun to plat, or play against. I know someone who plays a Garchomp deck that gets a couple of laughs every game, and both decks are extremely fun, however, if you lock or donk either of the decks, then you don't get to have as much fun, and it just seems to be a waste.
 
SPs take a lot of skill, even Gengar can be difficult to play it they keep their trainers low and Unown G their main hitters, then it takes skill.
 
gengar the baller said:
SPs take a lot of skill, even Gengar can be difficult to play it they keep their trainers low and Unown G their main hitters, then it takes skill.
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Does this necessarily involve "skill," though? That's just your opponent messing with your deck's autopilot strategy. In that case, you'd have to switch out to Nidoqueen or another Pokemon and go from there.
 
I think the format still requires skill, but not as much as before. The ex days were so mucuh better. Banette ex, jolteon ex, and many others showed real synergy, and decks were fun to play. Crystal beach blissey was a true skill deck IMO. I also think they should discontinue the power raise. Pokemon isn't as fun now that whoever gets a good hand and goes second starts PWNing. I think neo was the best time. Pokemon started having more sophisticated powers/bodies/attacks, and it made it fun to think of strategies that didn't revolve around fast power.
 
DarthPika said:
Mehh... It takes a lot of skill. I just wish there was a little less luck involved.
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It's all about luck and speed. Not about skill. Skill goes a long way with complex strategy, something Donk cards like Macheap and SP Pokemon just don't provide.
 
Hmm.... I kinda like it but of course it could be better. I remember the olden days, my First Edition Machamp that I STILL have took 4 energy for 60, nothing else just a solid 60 and now my Leafeon does 30+ 10 for every energy on my side of the field, and then throw in a Sceptile GE and you start to wonder what happened with 4 energy for 60.
 
I think Jason K once said Pokemon is the best balance of skill and luck in any game.

EDIT: And just for the record, I agree. There's enough skill (and that's proven by good players consistently doing well and the fact the same person won worlds twice), but enough luck so it doesn't become boring.
 
afstandopleren said:
DarthPika said:
Mehh... It takes a lot of skill. I just wish there was a little less luck involved.
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It's all about luck and speed. Not about skill. Skill goes a long way with complex strategy, something Donk cards like Macheap and SP Pokemon just don't provide.
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SP takes skill, Luxape and Dialga/Palkia are two very difficult decks to play that no noob could play. Machamp is easy to play, but at least it newer players can be more competitive than just failing with random decks.
 
The skill is in how you build and play youre deck, i would say it is about 70-80% skill and the rest skill depending how well your deck is built.
The most thaughts is in how the deck should begin and what cards you should play first, but the opponent might make you change youre strategy, Lets say from defensive to offensive and just hitting your opponent really hard and try to win the offensive way.
But at home you biult your deck offensive. So yeah, there is actually alot of skill involved in Pokemon TCG, and that one person won Worlds 2 times makes it more true.

So i would say, with a good deck thats consistent, 60-80% is pure skill the rest is luck and how youre hand looks like.
 
Well every deck is made to fit the person playing it. It is easy to build a good deck for someone but to play the deck and master it and be good takes 70% skill and 30% luck of the draw. You can teach someone to play in an hour but to master the game takes a long time.
 
There is certain "skill to know how to play your decsk in certain situations. It is an ok balance beacuse other wise it would be really hard for new players to master the game.
 
Exactly Tristan.

Btw Offtopic, when we talked about worlds 2008, how did Khan Lee loose when throwing a dice? Both had 3 prize cards left :S dont get it at all xD
 
Here you have:

Finals: Blissey/Crystal Beach/Cessation Crystal (NO)

Khahn sits down with me and the first thing he does is sigh and tells me "I'm scared of you." I laugh and shake his hand, and we begin play. I have a Call Energy which allows for a Baltoy, and most importantly, a Chatot. Chatot allows me to avoid being stuck in a tough spot if he gets a fast Cessation Crystal & Beach on me. I end up using Mimic and Cosmic Power and hold Lake Boundary and Windstorm only to the most critical of turns. Gallade goes through his stuff.

Game 2 is similar, only that I opt to retreat and sacrifice a Jirachi ex for 2 huge turns. These 2 prizes eventually become irrelevant because all I'll have is about 4 legitimate attackers to give up against Blissey (2 Gallade, 1 Dusknoir and perhaps a Gardevoir LV. X). He ends up missing some irrelevant ER2's, and I time my 2 Lake Boundary well. I win two big Wagers, and after the second, he hopelessly plays an ER2, flips tails, and concedes.
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About the skill involved, I think it really requires a lot of skill to build and then play a deck the right way. Maybe it´s me but I think that even donk decks requires skill in deck building to be able to pull the donk, I don´t find it easy, but maybe just because donk isn´t my style of play. Also, I believe that the style of the player is also involved with the skill needed: someone may like more complex deck that requires more skill to play but gives more entretetain games, when someone else might like a speed/donk deck with "the easier, the better I like it" style. I keep in mind however, that you may build a speed/donk deck that need a lot of skill but is better throughout all the game.
 
I would say there is a lot of skill. It's just, luck is so much of the game: deck, coins/dice, Machamp. :F But yeah, more skill is always needed. Masters is always skillful no matter what you play, and I don't see that changing for a while. I would like more creativity than skill now. People net-deck like it's 1999. :F

dmaster out.
 
I wish there was more skill and less luck. I mean, I played against Speedrill at Nats while I played Luxape and I lost, probably because my opening hand was !nfernape 4, Power Spray 4x, Poketurn 3x. YOWCH. I got hammered against a good matchup in my favor, but in situations like that I wish there was less luck......I wish there was more skill, yes.
 
Well, these have been some great answers, and now that I look at it, I see much more potential in the TCG than before. It's just that... well, I dunno. The current state of the game forces you to use certain cards in order to even have a shimmer of hope in winning.

So, with that in mind, what would you guys like to see Nintendo do in the future in order to make the game more "skill"-driven than it is now?

I personally would like to see a few more Pokemon that are purely dedicated towards teching and are GOOD (but not broken) at it. More techs = more versatility, so the metagame would be harder to analyze and the way you play would determine the outcome of the match. Conversely, I would also like to see centralizing cards such as Claydol, Uxie, Roseanne's, and Bebe's GONE. These cards absolutely ruin deck versatility in the game. A nerf for them would be good (Claydol should take damage when using it's power or something of the sort).

(I personally would also like to see more Trainer cards that are playable on your opponent's turn. More Power Spray-esque cards, for example. The game could use more disruption, but this is pushing it.)
 
I would like to see a more rouge enviorment (More than 3-4 decks that you will see but rather 10-20 that are are commonly good and see decent play.
 
the problem with the metagame these days is that it really isn't built around skill...but this is not due to PUSA doing (well, maybe just a lil'), but is more due to the players

players have found a small number of card combos that work really well, and in some cases, really cheap...and have just run with those, and being they're being posted on numerous forums around the internet...you have a severe epidemic of net-decking, instead of actually trying to find ways to make their own deck ideas work and become viable and winning decks

this becomes more prevalent, when you have a number of players posting on forums and nearly berating players because they aren't running the easier played (a.k.a. lazy) cards...for instance, the thread ranting about how much evolutions suck compared to the SP's, because the SP take less energy and are basics and/or any other excuse they use to toss evolutions aside...the thread was an steaming pile, and a prime example of how players are getting lazy...yea, they SP's are a lil' faster to set up, and they get cards that do things no other decks can really use...there is, however, ways to beat SP decks with decks that don't run SP's or decks that aren't completely built around SP's...this is where skill comes into the game and you have to outthink and outstrategize your opponent...but players in today's metagame seem to prefer the lazy game over the thinking game, and seem to think quick win locking and/or donking games are fun or more fun

I really do wish the metagame was built more around skill, like in previous sets of yester-year...but it's not so bad when you beat a bunch of net-decking opponents and top cut with a deck that they don't see coming and have a hard time trying to figure out how it is you beat them when they had this "top tier" deck

for those of you who have talked about these decks not running on auto-pilot...I hate to say it, but while some of these combo decks do require some semblance of understanding the combos they are using, they are still mainly auto-pilot decks that don't really require a whole lot of effort to pull off

one thing that might help put more skill into the metagame...when people post strategies and ideas, and are asking for input and help, have players that are constructively trying to provide ideas or help, instead of just spouting it's not gonna work because of this card or that card

PokeKid Brandon said:
I would like to see a more rouge enviorment (More than 3-4 decks that you will see but rather 10-20 that are are commonly good and see decent play.
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and if you can get players to stop being so lazy and try and make their deck ideas work...you would see that
 
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