Discussion Does Lurantis/Leafeon have a spot in the meta?

Lurantis Promo was the first thing that came to my mind when Leafeon GX was revealed. Combo them both with Golisopod to have a fast hitter capable to hit numbers in the current format. Leafeon GX is an excellent addition to Golisopod Lurantis decks and enables a more offensive version of Golisopod GX. A smaller line of Leafeon Gx suffices since Wimpod and Eevee are both excllent starters to get the ball rolling.
 
Dark Espeon said:
Lurantis Promo was the first thing that came to my mind when Leafeon GX was revealed. Combo them both with Golisopod to have a fast hitter capable to hit numbers in the current format. Leafeon GX is an excellent addition to Golisopod Lurantis decks and enables a more offensive version of Golisopod GX. A smaller line of Leafeon Gx suffices since Wimpod and Eevee are both excllent starters to get the ball rolling.
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Yup, currently testing if it's worth to have 2 Nest Balls in.
 
FacepalmMaster said:
you said you already had the proxies for it
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My honest opinion is no. Leafeon doesn't beat anything(I mean meta decks, not being bad to the point of losing), and the ability is mediocre since it has to be active to work. I'd rather Acerola or Max Potion half the time anyway, rather than running a Leafeon line. The problem with the hype surrounding the GX attack, is that you only really optimize it in decks like Decidueye, but it makes the deck really clunky, and people forget that the GX attack only works on basics, so you can't evolve Dartix into Decidueye, etc. Glaceon, DM Necrozma, Naganadel/friends, and probably Buzzwole and Bulu are the early meta for ULP, and Leafeon loses to all of those. Bulu, Buzzwole, and DM Necro OHKO all your guys, whereas Naganadel turns the early game into late game pressure in 2 turns, and Glaceon shuts you down T1 and snipes your guys.
 
I think Leafeon-GX is being overhyped. It's a great card in theory, and there's a lot of Pokémon you can pair it with to take advantage of it's GX attack, but you need the perfect start every turn for it to be worth it. If you whiff on the Turn 1 Brigette and struggle to put Pokémon on your bench, it's GX attack is lackluster. You also need to start with Eevee, or have a way to get it into your active if you don't start with it, which won't happen every game. Once you've used it's GX attack it's just meh the rest of the game because you'd rather focus on the Pokémon you paired it with. You gotta run a 4-3 line to maximize your chances of starting with it which is a lot of space for a Pokemon your mainly only going to want to use Turn 1. I don't know, I could be wrong and it could run great but the people at my League that have tried it have all said that it's clunky and inconsistent.
 
HouchinsDJ said:
I think Leafeon-GX is being overhyped. It's a great card in theory, and there's a lot of Pokémon you can pair it with to take advantage of it's GX attack, but you need the perfect start every turn for it to be worth it. If you whiff on the Turn 1 Brigette and struggle to put Pokémon on your bench, it's GX attack is lackluster. You also need to start with Eevee, or have a way to get it into your active if you don't start with it, which won't happen every game. Once you've used it's GX attack it's just meh the rest of the game because you'd rather focus on the Pokémon you paired it with. You gotta run a 4-3 line to maximize your chances of starting with it which is a lot of space for a Pokemon your mainly only going to want to use Turn 1. I don't know, I could be wrong and it could run great but the people at my League that have tried it have all said that it's clunky and inconsistent.
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Clearly the title is not ''does Leafeon have the tier 0 spot in the meta'', so I really don't get all the people who argument the post saying it's not a monster of a card.
The ability is rarely if even used, the attack is cluncky and really costly, the GX is good to set up, as you yourself stated, and that's the point.
Pairing with golisopod, You can Easily run 2 Leafeon.
Now, talking numbers, playing a 4-2 split leaves you with about 39% chance of getting it as your starting Pokémon.
Using a 4-3 of Golisopod you have 8 Pokémons as ideal starters, since Wimpod has free retreat basically, 70% chances of getting one as the starter (with 2 float stones, we get to about 80% of having an active Pokémon and being able to retreat).
With 4 Ultraball, 3 Brigette, 2 Minor Ball (used to maximize the effect of the attack), 2 Lele to get the brigette, we have 75ish % chance to get one in the opening hand, removing the dead hands with no basic it's about 70% I think (Don't remember, made these calculations ages ago and trust me when I say I don't have the patience to run them again.).
Basically 3 out of 4 games we have our Eevee in the active spot, most of which by using a Brigette.
Yes, it's a setup deck, Parallel City is a pain in the ass as is Cyrus, yes, we fill the deck with cards to optimize the combo and thus feel the lack of some items.
And focusing on the Pokémon you pair with Leafeon is kind of the point, since after the GX the only use it has is the occasional Guzma-> Pick it up and heal-> Retreat with float stone to hit 190 with Golisopod.
Tried it at my league, it's fairly consistent but the problem is that, even tho I built it with Lurantis and made it run most of the time, Golisopod stole the spotlight and it suffered without an Ideal setup more than let's say a Zoroark deck, reason why I cut Lurantis and added Golisopod, since it runs by itself, hitting 170 with a lone Lurantis promo in play and picking off Leles.
Don't underhype cards just because people overhype them.
 
Eltyr said:
Clearly the title is not ''does Leafeon have the tier 0 spot in the meta'', so I really don't get all the people who argument the post saying it's not a monster of a card.
The ability is rarely if even used, the attack is cluncky and really costly, the GX is good to set up, as you yourself stated, and that's the point.
Pairing with golisopod, You can Easily run 2 Leafeon.
Now, talking numbers, playing a 4-2 split leaves you with about 39% chance of getting it as your starting Pokémon.
Using a 4-3 of Golisopod you have 8 Pokémons as ideal starters, since Wimpod has free retreat basically, 70% chances of getting one as the starter (with 2 float stones, we get to about 80% of having an active Pokémon and being able to retreat).
With 4 Ultraball, 3 Brigette, 2 Minor Ball (used to maximize the effect of the attack), 2 Lele to get the brigette, we have 75ish % chance to get one in the opening hand, removing the dead hands with no basic it's about 70% I think (Don't remember, made these calculations ages ago and trust me when I say I don't have the patience to run them again.).
Basically 3 out of 4 games we have our Eevee in the active spot, most of which by using a Brigette.
Yes, it's a setup deck, Parallel City is a pain in the ass as is Cyrus, yes, we fill the deck with cards to optimize the combo and thus feel the lack of some items.
And focusing on the Pokémon you pair with Leafeon is kind of the point, since after the GX the only use it has is the occasional Guzma-> Pick it up and heal-> Retreat with float stone to hit 190 with Golisopod.
Tried it at my league, it's fairly consistent but the problem is that, even tho I built it with Lurantis and made it run most of the time, Golisopod stole the spotlight and it suffered without an Ideal setup more than let's say a Zoroark deck, reason why I cut Lurantis and added Golisopod, since it runs by itself, hitting 170 with a lone Lurantis promo in play and picking off Leles.
Don't underhype cards just because people overhype them.
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The title of your thread is literally "Does Lurantis/Leafeon have a spot in the meta?" LOL okay then.

Did I place in Tier 0, or 1, or 2? Nope. In fact, I didn't place it anywhere. I was just letting you know what my opinion is, since you know, you asked on a public forum.

And if you actually read my response, my reasoning for "under-hyping" the card wasn't because people are overhyping it. I stated my reasons as to why I think it's being overhyped pretty clearly. Just because you want the card to work and someone thinks it won't work as well as you think doesn't mean you gotta aggressively defend it. Good luck with your build.
 
HouchinsDJ said:
The title of your thread is literally "Does Lurantis/Leafeon have a spot in the meta?" LOL okay then.

Did I place in Tier 0, or 1, or 2? Nope. In fact, I didn't place it anywhere. I was just letting you know what my opinion is, since you know, you asked on a public forum.

And if you actually read my response, my reasoning for "under-hyping" the card wasn't because people are overhyping it. I stated my reasons as to why I think it's being overhyped pretty clearly. Just because you want the card to work and someone thinks it won't work as well as you think doesn't mean you gotta aggressively defend it. Good luck with your build.
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People debate over things, me stating things is not exactly being aggressive. You said you won't start with eevee every game, I gave you what I think are pretty precise probabilities of the ideal turn and eevee being active happening (math is not an opinion so it's not about ''working as well as I think'', it's about working as intended in % games).
Really didn't want to start an argument of this kind, but if overhyping is bad for discussion, throwing the card into oblivion saying it doesn't do anything at all (not talking about you) is not much better.
 
Eltyr said:
People debate over things, me stating things is not exactly being aggressive. You said you won't start with eevee every game, I gave you what I think are pretty precise probabilities of the ideal turn and eevee being active happening (math is not an opinion so it's not about ''working as well as I think'', it's about working as intended in % games).
Really didn't want to start an argument of this kind, but if overhyping is bad for discussion, throwing the card into oblivion saying it doesn't do anything at all (not talking about you) is not much better.
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You can run the numbers, but it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of pieces you have to hit T1 to maximize this deck's effectiveness, and missing just one piece sets you back at the start of the game. You have a 70-80% chance of getting Eevee into the active T1 depending on whether you hit Float Stone or not (according to your math), but that doesn't mean you'll also have the Grass Energy and Brigette. Alternately, you could start with a Brigette, but have no way of retreating your active. Or start with an Eevee and not draw into a Grass Energy. There are a number of scenarios that could play out. You won't start with Eevee every game. I said that and your numbers prove that right. So what are you going to do those 20-30% of games where you don't start with Eevee and can't get it into the active? I think you should consider that.

As I said in my initial post, I think it's GX attack is great, and I'm sure you'll have games where you're able to maximize it's effectiveness, but I do think it's consistency is questionable, and in a Meta that heavily favors consistency, that can't be overlooked. Does that mean I'm calling it a bad deck? No, not necessarily. I see it's strengths and I haven't been able to playtest it myself so I'm undecided. I just think it's a deck that sounds great in theory but doesn't perform as well as desired. But again, like I said, I could be wrong.
 
Eltyr said:
People debate over things, me stating things is not exactly being aggressive. You said you won't start with eevee every game, I gave you what I think are pretty precise probabilities of the ideal turn and eevee being active happening (math is not an opinion so it's not about ''working as well as I think'', it's about working as intended in % games).
Really didn't want to start an argument of this kind, but if overhyping is bad for discussion, throwing the card into oblivion saying it doesn't do anything at all (not talking about you) is not much better.
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90% sure that last sentence was throwing shade at me. I'll elaborate more on why Leafeon in itself is being "thrown into oblivion". Simply put, it's underwhelming. Buzzwole was a card that was hyped early on by the community, but being paired with Garb, it had a great setup, and a terrifying early game, but then it had no way of taking KOs when it needed to, since at the time, no one had been playing Max Elixir with it. Leafeon, on paper, is the same way. It looks like it carries a scary first few turns, but then it fizzles out. The flaw with comparing it to Buzzwole however, is that Buzzwole already had support that wasn't clunky. Strong Energy and Regirock meant that Jet Punch was doing 60, and that Knuckle Impact was doing 190 without a Band. But those cards don't clunk up the deck because they're in numbers that don't cause you to dead draw because of them, and don't slow you down because you need something else. Leafeon-GX, getting paired with Lurantis, is something that you're using your GX attack on to evolve on masse, but end your turn. If you otherwise ended your turn, you wouldn't be able to attack with Lurantis on the field until your next turn anyway. The only difference is that you search your deck to evolve them, making the process easier. This isn't bad, but it's a demanding setup that falls apart to better strategies like the ones that the decks I gave as examples use. Yeah, a handful need to have a stage 2 in play to get running, but they're specially built to handle the task while keeping the deck consistently running throughout the game while completing the objective how it's built to. HouchinsDJ explained everything else well.
 
gumball51321 said:
90% sure that last sentence was throwing shade at me. I'll elaborate more on why Leafeon in itself is being "thrown into oblivion". Simply put, it's underwhelming. Buzzwole was a card that was hyped early on by the community, but being paired with Garb, it had a great setup, and a terrifying early game, but then it had no way of taking KOs when it needed to, since at the time, no one had been playing Max Elixir with it. Leafeon, on paper, is the same way. It looks like it carries a scary first few turns, but then it fizzles out. The flaw with comparing it to Buzzwole however, is that Buzzwole already had support that wasn't clunky. Strong Energy and Regirock meant that Jet Punch was doing 60, and that Knuckle Impact was doing 190 without a Band. But those cards don't clunk up the deck because they're in numbers that don't cause you to dead draw because of them, and don't slow you down because you need something else. Leafeon-GX, getting paired with Lurantis, is something that you're using your GX attack on to evolve on masse, but end your turn. If you otherwise ended your turn, you wouldn't be able to attack with Lurantis on the field until your next turn anyway. The only difference is that you search your deck to evolve them, making the process easier. This isn't bad, but it's a demanding setup that falls apart to better strategies like the ones that the decks I gave as examples use. Yeah, a handful need to have a stage 2 in play to get running, but they're specially built to handle the task while keeping the deck consistently running throughout the game while completing the objective how it's built to. HouchinsDJ explained everything else well.
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Sometimes the 10% is the correct one.
 
HouchinsDJ said:
You can run the numbers, but it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of pieces you have to hit T1 to maximize this deck's effectiveness, and missing just one piece sets you back at the start of the game. You have a 70-80% chance of getting Eevee into the active T1 depending on whether you hit Float Stone or not (according to your math), but that doesn't mean you'll also have the Grass Energy and Brigette. Alternately, you could start with a Brigette, but have no way of retreating your active. Or start with an Eevee and not draw into a Grass Energy. There are a number of scenarios that could play out. You won't start with Eevee every game. I said that and your numbers prove that right. So what are you going to do those 20-30% of games where you don't start with Eevee and can't get it into the active? I think you should consider that.

As I said in my initial post, I think it's GX attack is great, and I'm sure you'll have games where you're able to maximize it's effectiveness, but I do think it's consistency is questionable, and in a Meta that heavily favors consistency, that can't be overlooked. Does that mean I'm calling it a bad deck? No, not necessarily. I see it's strengths and I haven't been able to playtest it myself so I'm undecided. I just think it's a deck that sounds great in theory but doesn't perform as well as desired. But again, like I said, I could be wrong.
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Most of the scenarios I described consider using the brigette and having the eevee/wimpod active.
Second part in my point exactly, in case I didn't make it clear.
 
From personal experience Golisopod / Lurantis / Leafeon can be real consistent. The main idea is to have a small line of Leafeon GX (2-2) to boost the consistency of an already existing deck. The small line is viable because Wimpod has free retreat and is in fact the prefered starter in this deck. The benefit here is Leafeon GX makes the Lurantis assistance line more consistent and enables Golisopod Gx to achieve ohkos with First Impression. The issue of this deck is that it needs to fill the bench fast and that it has a mono weakness to fire. depending in the meta game this could be a deal breaker but the deck is actually rather consistent.
 
Ohh god I hope so, the deck sounds so fun on paper, however, the amount of bench space you need to dedicate worrys me alot,
 
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