Donphan Becoming Too Slow

DarkMatterGaming

DarkMatterGaming

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Before I begin, allow me to make myself perfectly clear on two fronts:

This is all of my opinion, and my observations being a Donphan player for about 6-8 months. It is very likely that my decklist is the culprit in Donphan's drop in speed, however I feel that there are more reasons.

Before anyone asks - I didn't put this in Donphan deck discussion since it's more about the concept of Donphan rather than the playing of Donphan. If I'm in the wrong, I apologize greatly, but I don't believe this would fit in the general discussion of Donphan decks.

---

I ask this question completely serious since - over the past few times I've played PTCGO - I've noticed that my Donphan/Trevenant build isn't working as fast as I'd like it to. Granted it could totally be the decklist (and I've been meaning to post it in the Deck Garage for awhile), however it made me think.

Is Donphan becoming too slow? Apart from noticing that it dropped to Tier 3 on the boards here, I've also noticed that it regularly couldn't keep up with some decks, such as the Flareon/Empoleon build that's floating around and Mega Gardevoir. The damage-over-time table for Donphan VS the previously mentioned decks makes me believe that it's simply becoming too slow for the format.

With that being said, there's also the case of type match-ups; Toad EX (which is another can of worms) hits for 30 with a DCE, 50 with Band and that's without LaserBank. Donphan only has 130 HP, meaning that on a perfect turn for Toad, it's a OHKO. With the Cancer Engine being as popular as it is, that's not an impossible scenario at all; Donphan (subjectively) needs to run a lot of cards in order to function, such as:

  • Muscle Band
  • Float Stone
  • Silver Bangle
  • An EX Blocker (Sigilyph or Suicune)
  • Strong Energy
  • Fighting Stadium
  • Phanpy
  • Robo Sub

And so on in order for it to function at it's best, as opposed to Toad who can start attacking on their first turn of attacking. You all should've noticed Phanpy, and that's another reason why I believe it's simply becoming too slow; Stage 2s are already a dead concept, but some Stage 1 Pokemon are equally as nerfed because of cards like Lysandre and previously stated LaserBank.

Additionally, with the advent of Ancient Traits, 60-100 per turn is quickly becoming too low; AT Medicham can regularly hit for 180~ and cards like AT Swampert not only provide support for your deck, but also do 130 after 2 turns of attaches.

With all of this in mind, I'm really looking forward to seeing what everyone else thinks.
 
RE: Is Donphan Becoming Too Slow?

Trevenant actually has a similar issue (low damage output), and that's why I think that even after Wally is released, Trevenant won't become BDIF (the weakness to Yveltal and his ilk do Trevenant no favors, either).

Donphan, like Medicham and pretty much every Fighting variant except Groudon, requires lots of setup to augment its damage - setup that can easily be erased on your opponents turn via hammers/Xerosic or a counter stadium. Take all of that away and you're swinging for a laughable 40 a turn. In fairness, Medicham only hits for a pathetic 60 without its buffs.

Honestly, the only reason I think Donphan is still successful at all is because most decks don't run hammers. Hitting 130 is not difficult, and Lysandre means that Donphan can't even hide.
 
RE: Is Donphan Becoming Too Slow?

Also with Vs seeker it is very easy to keep pulling out those Donphans. it's a shame really as I like that deck
 
RE: Is Donphan Becoming Too Slow?

Stage 1 decks have always been slow[er]. The turn waiting to evolve can be highly detrimental, especially if your opponent goes second, as with Laserbank, cheap EX costs and bands, hitting 70+ Turn 1/2 is not uncommon. Personally I find that the main problem of the deck, as well as any others.

I also agree that damage output is becoming low - the format is really looking at decks that can either lock or 1-hit KO. The weakness is not helpful either.

BTW, M-Gardy isn't that great - it is probably slower than Donphan itself. Even Yveltal is getting to the stage of being slow, taking two turns to setup.
 
RE: Is Donphan Becoming Too Slow?

bbninjas said:
BTW, M-Gardy isn't that great - it is probably slower than Donphan itself. Even Yveltal is getting to the stage of being slow, taking two turns to setup.
Click to expand...

I'll be honest, I was just pulling decks off the top of my head, and M-Gardy was one of the first to pop up if only because of the (potential) damage output.
 
RE: Is Donphan Becoming Too Slow?

I've been tooling around with a Donphan list that I really like (except for the Toad matchup), whose idea was given to me by google's google Gilbert's podcast (google). The idea is to make your opponent fight for all of its KO's by running heavy item draw and just running Robo Subs and Life Dew. However, this deck has a huge weakness to Lando/Bats and anything running Dusknoir BCR. The benefit is that although it may be slow, it eventually gets around your opponents' EXs by going back to the original Donphan concept (2/3hko'ing two prize EXs while they have to take six prizes).
 
RE: Is Donphan Becoming Too Slow?

Donphan is tier 1 or 2. It runs Hawlucha, Groudon, and Robo Subs. Usually no other walls, unless you're a senior, seniors like walls. It looks like you guys have the wrong idea...

It's not too slow, Hawlucha is easily swinging for 100+ turn one, and Donphan 90+ turn two onwards. You play a 1-1 Groudon and only power it up when convenient.
 
RE: Is Donphan Becoming Too Slow?

Donphan has respectable speed, as it always has. You frequently spinning turn in your second turn, although it sometimes takes a little while to get the damage up to proper 2HKO territory. It's slower than Night March or Flareon, but faster than a lot of other decks.

The version with Trevanant is obviously a bit slower. But that has never been the most competitive version.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top