Donphan Variants

Donphan is a roller coaster when it comes to it's viability. It started off as a cute little rouge deck then it catapulted into legitimate contender in the format. It eventually became the deck to beat in one of the weirdest format's this game has had. Then it has slowly fallen down to a good deck but constantly being surpassed by decks that can out do this deck.This deck is a good deck which is my favorite surprise of the format.

The deck is based on walling, but it needs to be a wall worth putting out. Why I am bringing this up is that I think Wailord EX has no place any where near a Donphan deck. Wailord theoretically makes okay sense. It is a 250 wall that is a basic, but what this deck needs is a way to get donphan back in active so you can keep the damage coming. The problem with that is that he has a 4 energy retreat cost, and that is half the energy of this deck. Of course you could use float stones(which could be megaphoned away), or switches but you are wasting resources on a two prize stall card. If you want to stall use cards like Suicune or Sigilyph who can mantain their spot longer, and only cost 1 prize.
 
Mr.Muffin said:
The deck is based on walling, but it needs to be a wall worth putting out. Why I am bringing this up is that I think Wailord EX has no place any where near a Donphan deck. Wailord theoretically makes okay sense. It is a 250 wall that is a basic, but what this deck needs is a way to get donphan back in active so you can keep the damage coming. The problem with that is that he has a 4 energy retreat cost, and that is half the energy of this deck. Of course you could use float stones(which could be megaphoned away), or switches but you are wasting resources on a two prize stall card. If you want to stall use cards like Suicune or Sigilyph who can mantain their spot longer, and only cost 1 prize.
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That is most of the reason why this deck works so effectively - you need to take 6+ Pokemon - counting any Robo Subs you play - and deal consistent damage. Plus Wailord is weak to one of - if not the - strongest decks in the format, VirGen. Red Signal/Lysandre it from Bench and one G Booster later, they have 2 prizes over you. In the off chance you're not fighting a VirGen deck, then it's a dead draw if you hit on your first turn - my build only runs 3 Water and that's if I need Suicune to attack.

As good as Wailord EX is conceptually... I echo this man's sentiment - it is not a good card for Donphan.
 
I haven't seen Donphan take any wins, or even top cut in my area (NJ / NY metro) for a few weeks now. Donphan undoubtedly functioned when it first appeared, and for a while caught everyone by surprise because there hasn't been a viable deck like it since Accelgor rotated. The deck is also a lot faster to set up and doesn't need Tropical Beach (which rotated anyway) to be efficient. Donphan's early performances can be arritubted to its unique strategy (compared to other decks in the format, sans Gengar), relatively safe weakness, and uses of a bulky, evolved non-EX for a central attacker.

However, Donphan's wild popularity also sort of dug its own grave. As more and more people started playing it, it became "the deck to beat" as Mr. Muffin put it, and started getting haters. Just like Yveltal before it, it wasn't long before players were preparing decks specifically to counter Donphan, or have a good matchup. Decks like Yveltal / Hard Charm, Manectric / Zapdos, and Cancer Toad all work around Donphan's walls and/ or prevent it from setting up properly. While Donphan can still preform well, especially in the hands of a skilled player, it's sort of lost its novelty as the metagame has become more open. I feel right now it's matchups are mostly hit or miss. It does phenominal against Fighting and Big Basics (usually), but struggles with Aromatisse, certain Yveltal builds, and Seismitoad.
 
My Little Keldeo said:
It does phenominal against Fighting and Big Basics (usually), but struggles with Aromatisse, certain Yveltal builds, and Seismitoad.
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I can't say for tournaments - the first one I'm entering in with Blastoise is at the end of the month - but if that's the case, I'm a tad bit worried.

Anyway, onto what I actually quoted - yes. One thousand times yes. Maybe it's because my deck build isn't up to snuff - which is a possibility - but I always have a gigantic struggle against Aromatisse, Darkrai/Ylveltal, and Seismtoad. I honestly don't know what I can tech in aside from Safeguarders to help beat those.
 
DarkMatterGaming said:
My Little Keldeo said:
It does phenominal against Fighting and Big Basics (usually), but struggles with Aromatisse, certain Yveltal builds, and Seismitoad.
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I can't say for tournaments - the first one I'm entering in with Blastoise is at the end of the month - but if that's the case, I'm a tad bit worried.

Anyway, onto what I actually quoted - yes. One thousand times yes. Maybe it's because my deck build isn't up to snuff - which is a possibility - but I always have a gigantic struggle against Aromatisse, Darkrai/Ylveltal, and Seismtoad. I honestly don't know what I can tech in aside from Safeguarders to help beat those.
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Heavy counts of Hawlucha can turn the Seismitoad matchup. Wobbuffet helps against Aromatisse a bit but unless you are playing more than 1 Wobbuffet then it won't turn the matchup in your favor. Dark / Hardcharm just tends to straight up beat you.
 
These are really just bad matchups for Donphan, largely by definintion. Unlike Manectric / Zapdos, these decks aren't intented to specifically counter Donphan, but simply what they do goes against Donphan's objectives.

Let's start with Fairies. The strategy here is to prevent knockouts by using Max Potion and cycling energy to keept your resources in play as much as possible. This goes against Donphan simply chipping away until KOs start happening, since the Fairy player can heal off the damage, or switch to an attacker better suited for the situation with ease. For example, Suicune will take out a Donphan in one hit, and with a Muscle Band gets rid of Sigilyph. Xerneas-EX can snipe the bench, setting up future KOs or picking off a weakened Donphan or Robo Substitute. The best thing you can do is try to Lysndre Spritzee / Aromatisse as early as possible, but even then it's an uphill battle because the opponent should have enough energy in play to ocver their needs.

Yveltal's Fighting resistance messed with Donphan's math, and that's just about all there is to it. Yveltal XY is a non-EX, and with a Hard Charm will take 40 less damage from Donphan. With the 30 damage from Oblivion Wing isn't much, it adds up when Donphan can barely squeeze out 40, and powers up stronger Pokemon on the bench. An easy two prizes is to Lysandre Darkrai-EX and knock it out, but after that you'll have to build up Wrecks and pull up Yveltal-EX. You can tech in Zekrom (Outrage) or Dedenne FFI as hard counters, but they are not without drawbacks. A smart player will KO Zekrom outright before it can do serious damage with Outrage, and Dedenne tends to come 10-20 damage short of an impotant KO, even with Muscle Band / Bangle. A Yveltal-EX with two energy only takes 140 from Dedenne with a Bangle, and can KO it right back.

Decks that run solely Seismitoad as their attacker is basically a lost cause. Muscle Band, Float Stone and Robo Substitute are essential to Donphan's success formula, and Quaking Punch will stop you from playing all of those. Hawlucha can do some easy damage to a Toad, but it will be negated by Super Scoop Up / Cassius if you're unlucky and/or not quick enough. Donphant's weakness to Water means Wreck is very risky business.

Honestly, my best advice with bad matchups for any deck is to accept that the scales are tipped against you. Putting in more than just one or two techs will hurt you in the long run since they become dead weight in matches where they aren't needed, and if they're prizes then they're useless regardless. The better thing to do is focus on consistency and draw power so that you can perform well there Donphan can really shine. Even if you do decide to tech, one or two cards will not swing the odds in your favor and at best it will turn an autoloss into a still difficult match. Sometimes bad pairings happen. One loss won't ruin your chances of making top cut. Of course... sometime you get paired against bad matchups all day. That's just luck. I know my advice is a little cynical, but sometimes we get days where Victini just isn't on our side.
 
Fair enough; my TCGO deck isn't the best so bad match-ups are made kinda worse, but hey, what can you do?

Speaking of, I need to ask before I enter my next tournament on there: is Aegislash EX a worth tech for Donphans? It shuts down a lot of decks because of the reliance on Double Colorless/occasional Plasma/Strong Energy, but I don't know if it's worth running over one of my Suicunes since Aegis' usage is situational at best.
 
DarkMatterGaming said:
Fair enough; my TCGO deck isn't the best so bad match-ups are made kinda worse, but hey, what can you do?

Speaking of, I need to ask before I enter my next tournament on there: is Aegislash EX a worth tech for Donphans? It shuts down a lot of decks because of the reliance on Double Colorless/occasional Plasma/Strong Energy, but I don't know if it's worth running over one of my Suicunes since Aegis' usage is situational at best.
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The only way to tech for it is to either run more sigilpyh/suicune safeguard pokemon or to run more lysandre/Vs seeker.
 
I thought he meant putting an Aegislash EX in a donphan deck lol . But I think that it is only good if there is a lot of lugia in your area. Most decks that use special energy can get around it. The only other reason I could see it being useful is if there is a lot of Toad with Slurpuff in your area. But its still not the best since it gets shut down by silent lab. Aegislash would have been better pre primal clash for that reason. Also with a Primal Groudon line would a 2-2 be recommended or is 1-1 enough?
 
Aviste said:
I thought he meant putting an Aegislash EX in a donphan deck lol . But I think that it is only good if there is a lot of lugia in your area. Most decks that use special energy can get around it. The only other reason I could see it being useful is if there is a lot of Toad with Slurpuff in your area. But its still not the best since it gets shut down by silent lab. Aegislash would have been better pre primal clash for that reason. Also with a Primal Groudon line would a 2-2 be recommended or is 1-1 enough?
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1-1 is pretty much all you have room for. It's really tight.
 
Just curious if anyone is still running trevenant+keld in donphan builds. I've found it to be quite iffy against seismitoad which is already an issue for donphan decks as if you want to have a decent chance in the game, you need to get out keldeo with a floatstone as well as both phantump and phanpy with a muscle band/bangle turn 1 but I do find it is effective for beating fairy lists that rely heavily on stuff like max potion (maybe this isn't a huge advantage as wreck is pretty threatening to fairy decks given it one-shots mega gard ex with strong, bangle, and stadium). Idk, maybe item locking outside of toad isn't as amazing given the banning of trumpcard which allowed for engines that steamed through their resources but I have still found it to be useful particularly in ensuring that the opponent will usually have to pay a heavy price if they want to retreat to dodge the 2hko from donphan which I've found to be an issue before even when running a couple of lysandre. Also, the fact that you can spam teammates with trevenant regularly getting KOed really helps getting the extra damage ouput necessary. Thoughts?
 
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